Town Resposibility to Mark or Remove Potential Saftey Hazards.

[Avak]

I would argue that while I did see the pipe previously, I did not, and could not see the pipe when I struck it as it was obscured from my view.

I left the vehicle and came back and did not notice the pipe nor remember it was there. I proceeded to leave and struck the pipe that was not visible from that angle.

Is it expected that a driver remember every road hazard he encounters in case he encounters it again?

The placement of the pipe is such that it is inconspicuous in certain circumstances and therefore a hazard.

I would be surprised if no one else has had issues with it.

 

[justalayman]

Avak;2795509]I would argue that while I did see the pipe previously, I did not, and could not see the pipe when I struck it as it was obscured from my view.

but it was your action that obscured the pipe. That would be no different than knowing there was a hole in the ground and then closing your eyes and continuing to walk, fall into the hole and be injured. It is your fault because the hole (or the pipe in your case) was obvious to a reasonable person. It was your own blinding yourself to the situation that caused the damage.

I left the vehicle and came back and did not notice the pipe nor remember it was there. I proceeded to leave and struck the pipe that was not visible from that angle.

so it was your fault you didn't see the pipe at that time because you parked your truck in the way. So now we know who is culpable for obscuring the pipe (you) so that is the person you need to sue.

Is it expected that a driver remember every road hazard he encounters in case he encounters it again?

it is expected that a person avoid an obvious thing such as the pipe. If your memory is so short you forgot about it, it isn't due to the lack of marking it. It was because you obscured it and you forgot about it. It is still your fault.

The placement of the pipe is such that it is inconspicuous in certain circumstances and therefore a hazard.

You mean like when you park your truck in front of it? Again, that would mean you are the one that caused it to not be noticeable. That means you are the cause of the accident.

I would be surprised if no one else has had issues with it

it doesn't make any difference.

 

[Avak]

I was gone for about an hour. On the walk back I would have been able to see it and therefore notice and remember it had it been MORE conspicuous..

Once I was in my truck it was not visible at all from that angle.

If the town digs a deep hole in the middle of a walkway and someone falls in do you say; that person is at fault because they put themselves there? How about if the person saw the hole previously but still somehow accidentally fell in.

Any way to post pictures on here?

 

[justalayman]

If the town digs a deep hole in the middle of a walkway and someone falls in do you say; that person is at fault because they put themselves there? How about if the person saw the hole previously but still somehow accidentally fell in.

If they saw it first and then ignored the fact it was there, yes, I do say they are at fault. You admit you knew the post was there.

On the walk back I would have been able to see it and therefore notice and remember it had it been MORE conspicuous..

Ok, so from that angle, your truck did not obscure the post, right?

then explain this:

.

I parked to the left of the pipe out of the way of any potential traffic and got out of my truck to walk up the road a bit to assess the situation. I then decided to just pull forward and bang a U'y to the right, well I had forgot that the pipe was there because I could not see it on that side of my truck when I got back in.

If your truck did obscure the pipe, then it was your truck that made the pipe not visible. That makes it your fault.

 

[ecmst12]

I do not think it would be morally wrong for you to ATTEMPT to file a claim with the city. The worst that can happen is they tell you to pound sand. Just don't get your feelings hurt if they do.

 

[Avak]

Lets beat a dead horse,

If they saw it first and then ignored the fact it was there, yes, I do say they are at fault. You admit you knew the post was there.

Jane walks down the street and see's a hole she stops and has a look and says wow that shouldn't be there. A a woman calls out from behind her, mam, mam, you forgot your wallet in the store, Jane says thank you so much, turns around and after being distracted fails to notice the hole and falls in.

Too bad for Jane?

 

[justalayman]

Jane walks down the street and see's a hole she stops and has a look and says wow that shouldn't be there. A a woman calls out from behind her, mam, mam, you forgot your wallet in the store, Jane says thank you so much, turns around and after being distracted fails to notice the hole and falls in.

Your premise is defective:

Jane says thank you so much, turns around and after being distracted fails to notice the hole and falls in.

Jane cannot "fail to notice" the hole that she already noticed. It now becomes her negligence. She has already been alerted to the presence of the hole by her own observance. You cannot un-see the hole.

 

[Avak]

I am not arguing about weather or not she "saw" the hole, its more an argument of it being someones responsibility to make it safe. This is why we have laws and code. Maybe I am missing something here, where in the MA law did it say you were responsible if you saw the hazard?

Another senario; a man goes up a flight of stairs at town hall to go and pay his excise taxes with the town. The railing has been removed for repair, he notices the work being done on his way in, goes in safely and pays his taxes. He heads out the door to leave, walks toward the stairs and instinctively reaches for the rail not remembering that the rail is removed. He falls over the edge of the stairs.

Too bad taxpayer? Good luck with your hospital bills?

 

[I_Got_Banned]

^^^ "What's been seen cannot be unseen"...

Seriously Avak, it would be nice if we can ALWAYS shift the blame for every mistake we make on someone else. Ultimately though, "WE" all bear the responsibility to avoid hazards.

 

[Avak]

I'll let you all know how I made out. I'm gonna throw a claim in with the town.

I really just feel that if they put an orange cone or something to make the pipe highly visible then I would not have forgot the pipe was there. I just didn't notice it when I walked back even though it was in plain view from outside of my truck.

95% sure I'll be laughed at, but I guarantee they'll put construction zone signs up and remove the pipe, if they haven't already.

 

[cbg]

FYI, the correct procedure as I understand it (from when a raised manhole cover ripped my entire exhaust system right off my car) is to put in a claim with your insurance company and let them subrogate with the town (or in my case, since it was a state road, the state).

 

[ecmst12]

Remember that the law places a higher burden on drivers to be aware of their surroundings over pedestrians.

 

[Willlyjo]

I am not arguing about weather or not she "saw" the hole, its more an argument of it being someones responsibility to make it safe. This is why we have laws and code. Maybe I am missing something here, where in the MA law did it say you were responsible if you saw the hazard?

Another senario; a man goes up a flight of stairs at town hall to go and pay his excise taxes with the town. The railing has been removed for repair, he notices the work being done on his way in, goes in safely and pays his taxes. He heads out the door to leave, walks toward the stairs and instinctively reaches for the rail not remembering that the rail is removed. He falls over the edge of the stairs.

Too bad taxpayer? Good luck with your hospital bills?

I see your point! It is true a person can have a claim even though he was aware of a safety hazard, but yet, was injured by it.

Another example: A man notices cement stepping stones leading to the trash bins. The stones are not embedded into the ground and move around from time to time. The man steps on one, upending it as he falls and gets injured. He knew it was a safety hazard and he was aware of it, yet he forgot to be careful as he hurriedly took the trash out thus slipping on the stepping stone.

This matter is a true story with the man recovering adequate compensation for a torn rotator cuff.

In your case, there were no safety cones or signs pointing out the state of the construction. Therefore, you might be able to get your truck repaired by the entity that is in charge of the construction. If you don't try, you won't succeed for sure.

 

[musicman654321]

I see your point! It is true a person can have a claim even though he was aware of a safety hazard, but yet, was injured by it.
.

Heck they even let burglars sue for injuries inside the house he is stealing from

 

[Willlyjo]

Heck they even let burglars sue for injuries inside the house he is stealing from

...yep Musicman, in our sue crazy society, it happens quite frequently. BTW...I appreciate your common sense since it isn't so common around here as Mark Twain would probably say ha ha.