unemployment appeal

[commentator]

Certainly it does make a difference. It appears that the person making the initial decision saw prior write ups, and pretty much didn't look at what they said. And they failed to note that they were not consistent. In other words, they gave write ups for poor performance, then their reason for firing was for insubordination. This is a significant thing for you to bring up in the appeals hearing and an issue to point out to the hearing officer. And the "poor performance" write up that you did get had little to do with actual performance, was not based upon any specific work skill, just that you behaved inappropriately in the workplace that time, unrelated to this particular supervisor, or actually related to insubordination.

Poor performance, when you have been working at a place for several years and receiving adequate work appraisals and feedback (if you have any positive performance reviews that you've received over the years, they'd be good for you to mention) and then they give you a write up for "poor performance" which was related to an incident where you said something they didn't like and considered inappropriate in the breakroom could be shown to be very much unrelated to being insubordinate to your supervisor. Always state very clearly that you did not intend to be insubordinate, that you certainly did not want to put your job in jeopardy, that you always did your job to the best of your abilities and that you were trying very hard to do what the supervisor asked of you at the time of the final incident, as you always did.

The other factor is whether or not the insubordination was "gross misconduct" such as you jumped up and screamed, "Leave me alone you (#*$%&$%^C#$! If you want it done faster, you just ($*%&ing well do it yourself!!!!" which no reasonable person would think was appropriate workplace behavior, or whether you quietly but firmly said, "Look, I'm doing the best I can here, okay? If you think it needs to be done faster, you just show me how you want it done." I suspect the truth lies somewhere between these two alternatives.

And what you will present at the hearing will doubtless be a little different from their story, but you just tell your side of the situation quietly and present your evidence for your argument (that you were set up because of other issues, and because of personality conflicts with your supervisor, not because you were a bad employee, and that you did not commit misconduct to the level of their having a valid misconduct reason to terminate you from your long term job.)

 

[vanrocky]

I most likely just wasted my time with the appeals hearing. I feel like they are gonna go by the paper in front of them and not the comments that I made at all. My old boss was there and exaggerated everything I had ever done. Even presented some verbal coaching she gave me on multiple occations. Which is a lie. Just realized, i didn't pointe out that I had great reviews and no performance write ups for the 4 years before Connie started. I pointed out I was never aggressive or confrontational. And that the separation notice stated one thing and I was wrote up for another. And that the one writeup shouldn't be in concideration when it wasn't about insubordination. I also said that the policy violation was a policy that started while I was out on FMLA. The HR director asked me about the policy I was referring to and I told her it was one my boss started while I was out and gave to me 3 days before being fired and it was about tasks. Which I know for a fact that "policies" have to go thru an approval process and she can't just start it. Made them loom bad I think. Plus the fact the hearing officer had to repeat most of her questions to them cause they couldn't hear her good. Blah blah blah
Thanks for everyone's help.

 

[commentator]

Best wishes, let us know how it comes out. Sounds like you did about as well as you can under the circumstances. Remember, your story is just as good as theirs, they do not give extra points for their being employers or anything. You can also appeal to the board of review if denied, but it's up to you if you want to do that.

 

[vanrocky]

I've been so upset I haven't wanted to say anything. But on the day of the appeal I got an envelope delivered to my house early. I knew the door bell rang but it didn't ring again and I was busy getting ready for my hearing. After the hearing was over I found an envelope on my doorstep with paperwork that my work had sent in as evidence on my case. Papers I had never seen before. It was a daily overview if my performance since my return from FMLA. It was utterly astounding. She stated that I wasn't able to do my job and was recommending I be moved to a lower position. It was typed out statements she did. There were also letters that other employees had written out that plainly stated how they were sure why I had said this or that and they didn't even know who I was talking too. They over heard me, they thought, things like that. Then her responses to them was completely negative about me. 2 leading to a write up. There was an additional write up in my file from 2 years ago I had forgotten about. And the statement from my sup. said she didn't think it was a problem and it was a misunderstood on her part. But my boss made her give her the statement because she has heard about it thru hearsay, which lead to
a write up. It was 11 pages that she had kept in a personal file for me in her office. It wasn't on the file in HR. I know based on the info in that I will lose my appeal. But I think that info shouldn't have been submissible in the first place.i didn't get it 24 hours before my hearing either. I'm so upset over how unknowingly, so many of my "friends"
have treated me. Sounds like I need to grow up and see the real world isn't all rainbows and unicorns lol. Well I have now.

 

[commentator]

If you are denied, you can submit a board of review appeal saying that you did not receive the information until whenever you got it...was it messengered, mailed, Ex delivery? Your appeal would need to state that you had never seen the material before.

Not all information that is submitted may be decisively considered. The unemployment hearing officer understands that information can be created after the fact and before the hearing so to speak. Remember I said that before you can be fired for poor performance issues, you have to be aware that they are unhappy with your performance, be capable of performing the job adequately, and that you have been made aware of the issues that they were having with your performance and that you deliberately chose NOT to correct the issues and keep your job.

If you were doing your best, and they didn't tell you how unhappy they were with your job performance, or what you could do differently that would make them happier about it, or that you were in danger of being terminated for these issues, and you were showing up and doing your job to the best of your abilities, all the complaints about your work performance in the world is not considered a valid misconduct reason to fire you.

So all you would've needed to say in response to most of these accusations was that you had no idea there was this collection of complaints about you and negative information going on. You obviously hadn't been made aware of all this stuff the person was collecting about your negative behavior.

Unless they had called you in and told you your job was in jeopardy unless there was a change in this or that specific behavior, just a sort of complaint file about things you weren't aware they were making a record of is not particularly good evidence. Was any of this material brought up and discussed in the hearing?

Don't be so depressed, even if you don't win in the hearing, you have had a long run with this employer and that will count for something. You can't really expect co-workers to be your only friends, or to be totally true friends as they will almost always put their own self interest ahead of being your friend when it comes to keeping their job.