Vague Parenting/Custody Agreements

[Brookenstein]

What is the name of your state? currently CA, will be OR

I posted a similiar question with no response, but now that I've done more research onto divorce/custody I have more questions.

We are in SoCal now and will file for divorce here. Once things are settled with that, the kids and I are moving to OR and will live with my parents. Dad agrees to all of this as this is where we are from and his parents are there too.

I read that one of the biggest mistakes is making a parenting/custody agreement too vague. I don't know how not to make one vague when there is going to be over 1000 mile distance and the children (almost 5 and 5mo) will not be able to travel alone to see him. They also may or may not be comfortable with overnight visits when he comes up to see them.

We are splitting as friends and are agreeing to everything. I know this could change in the future, so I want to make sure the kids and I are protected, but I also want it as easy as possible for the kids to see dad as much as they can.

I'm also confused on the different types of custody (sole, joint, shared, physical, legal, etc.). What makes the most sense in our situation? Is it also possible in the original agreement to include a clause in which he would get standard visitation if he moved within 1 hour of our (new) location in OR.

Thanks for the help.

 

[BelizeBreeze]

The reason you are getting no response is that you are asking for a complete legal course on divorce law. No one here can walk you through all of the twists and turns that MIGHT happen.

Your child will be old enough to travel alone at 6. So plan on that. And also plan on paying for 1/2 of the cost of those trips to see dad.

Otherwise, both of you have any agreement you come up with reviewed by a local attorney before submitting it to the court for approval.

 

[LdiJ]

What is the name of your state? currently CA, will be OR

I posted a similiar question with no response, but now that I've done more research onto divorce/custody I have more questions.

We are in SoCal now and will file for divorce here. Once things are settled with that, the kids and I are moving to OR and will live with my parents. Dad agrees to all of this as this is where we are from and his parents are there too.

I read that one of the biggest mistakes is making a parenting/custody agreement too vague. I don't know how not to make one vague when there is going to be over 1000 mile distance and the children (almost 5 and 5mo) will not be able to travel alone to see him. They also may or may not be comfortable with overnight visits when he comes up to see them.

We are splitting as friends and are agreeing to everything. I know this could change in the future, so I want to make sure the kids and I are protected, but I also want it as easy as possible for the kids to see dad as much as they can.

I'm also confused on the different types of custody (sole, joint, shared, physical, legal, etc.). What makes the most sense in our situation? Is it also possible in the original agreement to include a clause in which he would get standard visitation if he moved within 1 hour of our (new) location in OR.

Thanks for the help.

Although its normally not recommended, in a case like yours you could simply use the term "reasonable" visitation to the father as long as the parents reside in different states, and that visitation will automatically change to standard visitation (and spell out exactly what you mean by that) if he moves to within 1 hr of your home.

Considering the ages of your children it would be really tough to spell out a specific long distance schedule at this point. What would be appropriate for the 5 year old wouldn't necessarily be appropriate for the 5 months old, and vice-versa.

 

[stealth2]

Actually, quite a few airlines permit a 5yo to travel as an unaccompanied minor on a nonstop flight.

 

[LdiJ]

Actually, quite a few airlines permit a 5yo to travel as an unaccompanied minor on a nonstop flight.

She has a 5 year old AND a 5 month old. It isn't clear here, but I know that from a thread on another board.

 

[tigger22472]

I STRONGLY disagree with the 'reasonable' issue! I also don't see what the problem is. There is NO reason not to have a set visitation schedule in the court order and also allow dad provisions when he's in the area. This is not something that can be done or given advice to on this forum as was said. You either have to do the research yourself or find an attorney to do it for you.

 

[BelizeBreeze]

I STRONGLY disagree with the 'reasonable' issue! I also don't see what the problem is. There is NO reason not to have a set visitation schedule in the court order and also allow dad provisions when he's in the area. This is not something that can be done or given advice to on this forum as was said. You either have to do the research yourself or find an attorney to do it for you.

MEOW!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[LdiJ]

I STRONGLY disagree with the 'reasonable' issue! I also don't see what the problem is. There is NO reason not to have a set visitation schedule in the court order and also allow dad provisions when he's in the area. This is not something that can be done or given advice to on this forum as was said. You either have to do the research yourself or find an attorney to do it for you.

The problem is that she would almost have to have two separate schedules. One for the 5 year old and one for the 5 month old. I realize that "reasonable" isn't normally a good idea, but since the two of them are amicable about things it CAN work. Plus, since dad's extended family is also in OR, odds are that he would have been there fairly often anyway. His kids also being there just gives him the added incentive to visit "home" more often.

My ex and I had it written as "reasonable" in our papers. I worked fine for us because we were amicable and stayed that way. Therefore I feel it MAY work for them as well.

 

[tigger22472]

MEOW!!!!!!!!!!!

Are you indicating I'm in a mood?
I did a parenting plan.... I took two months in preparing it... learning the forms I needed, made sure things in the plan were what was wanted, warrented and although reasonable, that word was NEVER used.

 

[tigger22472]

The problem is that she would almost have to have two separate schedules. One for the 5 year old and one for the 5 month old. I

Contrary to your opinion NO SHE DOESN"T. That 5 month old has just as much right to spend just as much time with their father as does the 5 YEAR old and YES that child IS ENTITLED to overnights. That father has the right to be a father to that child, regardless of the child's age or asinine opinions that babies belong attached to momma's hip!!

 

[LdiJ]

Contrary to your opinion NO SHE DOESN"T. That 5 month old has just as much right to spend just as much time with their father as does the 5 YEAR old and YES that child IS ENTITLED to overnights. That father has the right to be a father to that child, regardless of the child's age or asinine opinions that babies belong attached to momma's hip!!

I am not trying to argue here...but the 5 year old could easily go for much longer periods of time than the 5 month old could/should. Infants that young shouldn't be separated from their primary caregiver (whether that's mom, dad, grandma, grandpa, aunt, uncle, big sis or bro etc.) I also agree that there is no problem with overnights for the infant either since the infant is already bonded to dad too.

Realistically though, with an out of state situation and two kids at such vastly different developmental levels, its going to be tough to put together a specific schedule that is workable. It would be easier in another year or two.

 

[Brookenstein]

Wow, I got something going, lol.

I want Dad to have as much time as possible with his boys. I will not keep him from seeing them. The truth is he probably would not want them for overnights right now anyway. Not to mention the baby is exclusively breast fed, with a dairy sensititivity and connot take formula. Nor does he sleep through the night, and Dad would sleep right through it.

I won't get into details of the separation, but in a nutshell its because he is suffering from dysthymia (long term depression) and sees no other way to recover than getting away from his family. He has not been the father or husband he should be and can be lately and he knows he is hurting his children. We are still living together and he is spending less than 5 minutes a day with the kids. He spends about a minute with them before he walks out the door to work and about 4 minutes with them if he gets home before they are asleep at 9pm.) We both know that when he wants to be, he is the best dad, he just isn't now. And when he is ready, we will be waiting for him to take an active role.

We both do not feel comfortable with the children flying alone until age 12 (and only direct flights). We may be comfortable with the baby flying with oldest together at age 12, but definately not before the oldest is 12. We have also agreed that he is responsible for all costs associated with visitation. As for overnights when we are in OR, if he is at his parents, and the kids are comfortable with staying the night there, then that would be fine with me. I just don't see the need to force the kids to stay the night with him if they don't want to. He may be a stranger to the baby for quite some time.

It may sound harsh, but he has agreed to it, and it was his choice and his choice alone to divorce, so I think it is fair that he take the financial punch when it comes to visitation.

Anyone care to dabble at what the technical term of type of custody we are going after or should I just keep researching?

Thanks for the help.

 

[LdiJ]

Wow, I got something going, lol.

I want Dad to have as much time as possible with his boys. I will not keep him from seeing them. The truth is he probably would not want them for overnights right now anyway. Not to mention the baby is exclusively breast fed, with a dairy sensititivity and connot take formula. Nor does he sleep through the night, and Dad would sleep right through it.

I won't get into details of the separation, but in a nutshell its because he is suffering from dysthymia (long term depression) and sees no other way to recover than getting away from his family. He has not been the father or husband he should be and can be lately and he knows he is hurting his children. We are still living together and he is spending less than 5 minutes a day with the kids. He spends about a minute with them before he walks out the door to work and about 4 minutes with them if he gets home before they are asleep at 9pm.) We both know that when he wants to be, he is the best dad, he just isn't now. And when he is ready, we will be waiting for him to take an active role.

We both do not feel comfortable with the children flying alone until age 12 (and only direct flights). We may be comfortable with the baby flying with oldest together at age 12, but definately not before the oldest is 12. We have also agreed that he is responsible for all costs associated with visitation. As for overnights when we are in OR, if he is at his parents, and the kids are comfortable with staying the night there, then that would be fine with me. I just don't see the need to force the kids to stay the night with him if they don't want to. He may be a stranger to the baby for quite some time.

It may sound harsh, but he has agreed to it, and it was his choice and his choice alone to divorce, so I think it is fair that he take the financial punch when it comes to visitation.

Anyone care to dabble at what the technical term of type of custody we are going after or should I just keep researching?

Thanks for the help.

What you probably want is joint legal custody (joint decision making) with you having primary physical custody.

 

[stealth2]

She has a 5 year old AND a 5 month old. It isn't clear here, but I know that from a thread on another board.

I actually know that. The point was to correct BB's post that the kid could fly alone at 6.

However, it WOULD actually be possible for the 5yo to have one-on-one time with Dad w/o having an adult fly him/her. And that might not be such a bad thing - it would certainly make the kid more comfortable with overnights than only seeing Daddy once every three months would, wouldn't you say? Frankly, there is no reason whatsoever why a 5yo SHOULDN'T be capable of having once a month time with Dad (considering the distance). Or has Dad been gone so much over the past 5 years that the kid doesn't know him?

(edit) Now that I've read the OPs additional post... Then you'd best get an agreement signed & filed before he realizes what he's giving up. It is entirely likely that a judge would give him a weekend a month, have either the 5yo fly alone or have both kids accompanied, and have you pay the fare. In addition, when your stbx does get past his depression, that will be a change in circumstance warranting a modification and Dad may get the above ordered at that point in time. Personally, I'd advise you to consult with a local attorney.

 

[Brookenstein]

While some 5 yr olds (and he won't be 5 until January) may be capable of flying alone, I'm not sure mine is. He has a speech/language dissability which has led to delays in other aspects as well. It would be very hard on him to be alone for the 3 hour flight and know how to get his needs met (i.e. bathroom). Also, I would prefer that if the money is going to be spent on a plane ticket, that Dad would fly up. It would cost the same and both kids would get to see dad. The reason we are discussing every 3 months or so for visitation is because of finances. We can't afford every month. Even if we could, Dad may not want to visit more than that. He wants to be alone right now, hence the divorce and he sending us out of state.

I hope more than anything that when/if Dad gets out of his depression he will take a more active role with his children. I have no anger towards him, no resentment, and my children will always know what a wonderful man their dad is and that he loves them.

My oldest does see his dad and does love him. But, he also feels neglected by daddy right now. He asked him to go to his soccer games and he only made it to one. He tries to play with dad on the weekend and always gets "later, daddy is busy" (playing onlike poker). He out of the blue last weekend told his grandma "daddy is mean to me sometimes" and all I could say was "daddy loves you very much and is just going through a rough time." Dad does work a lot so that he can provide for the family, but in addition to that he is choosing to be away in the evening (stays at work playing on line poker or goes for drives) trying to arrive just as they go to bed.

We both agree that he would be the best every other weekend, twice a week in the evening type of Dad. That is about the most "parenting" he could handle. That is not an option immediatly though. I do hope he will decide to ask for a job transfer back to OR eventually and we can do that. His kids need him, I know that more than I think he does.