Verbal contracts and collection agencies

[jlg7744]

What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state? Massachusetts

Back on 11/29/05 (Tues), I went to a local printing shop here in Massachusetts and placed an order that I needed for an out of town event that would occur during the Christmas holidays. I stressed that fact to the owner that I needed this order before 12/11 because I was going out of town early on the 11th and would not be back until January. I was concerned that even though my order was small that I was a little late getting it in and I know how busy the holidays can get for printers. He said he could have it for me by the following Friday, 12/2. He didn't give me anything in writing and unfortunately I was in a rush and it didn't occur to me until later. The form with the details of the order I didn't sign and didn't get a copy of it.

The total of the order came to $60. He asked that I placed 50% down and that he only took checks. I wasn't exactly thrilled he didn't accept CCs 'cuz I like the consumer protections they offer but I went ahead with the order and gave him a check for $30.

Friday came and I called. I was told that the order had been printed but he didn't have it. He apparently sent it out to somewhere else--don't know why--and he hadn't received them back yet. I called back Monday 12/5,--still no notes. I reminded him I needed them by/on the 10th. He said they would be there Tuesday. Tuesday came--no notes. I called once more and left a message. He never returned it.

On the 10th, I still hadn't heard from him or received the notes. So I cancelled the check. I left town on the 11th and had to make other plans with another printer regarding my order. I got back into town yesterday to find my answering machine filled with messages from the first printer (he is also calling my work phone and leaving messages). He is demanding full payment but has yet to mention the order--which I don't need anymore. He is threatening a bad check charge and a collection agency.

So what are my options? Do I have a verbal contract with this guy? Even if I still needed the order, I wouldn't pay him on principle. The fact is I got hit with a huge express fee because I had to have the order printed at the last minute at another shop. So I really don't feel inclined to pay him. If a collection agency calls, I can't say it isn't my debt exactly. I am assuming they can ruin my credit. Any advice?

 

[palulukon]

if there was any verbal contract it was for the order to be ready by a specific date. it is not a bad check because you gave him a check for something you did not receive. people cancel cks all the time for something not received. call the BBB. also he cannot call you at work...neither can collection agencies. there is no collection agency that would touch this. what is he going to say, this person wrote me a check for something i did not deliver and i want you to go after her? they would laugh at him. tell him if he continues to call you will turn all the info over to someone for harassment. he would have a hard time proving it was a bad check when he did not deliver the order. you never signed anything so he has no proof of anything. it becomes your word against his. bad checks are bad if you receive something and then cancel the check. he has nothing showing you received anything.

the guy is a crook...bet he has other listings with the BBB.

 

[jlg7744]

tell him if he continues to call you will turn all the info over to someone for harassment.

Do you mean calling the police and file a charge of harassment or sue for harassment?

 

[palulukon]

h**p://www.fair-debt-collection.com/

this site can answer many of your questions...good luck.

ps...i am not sure if we can post live links...so in the above change the two ** to tt.

 

[divgradcurl]

What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state? Massachusetts

Back on 11/29/05 (Tues), I went to a local printing shop here in Massachusetts and placed an order that I needed for an out of town event that would occur during the Christmas holidays. I stressed that fact to the owner that I needed this order before 12/11 because I was going out of town early on the 11th and would not be back until January. I was concerned that even though my order was small that I was a little late getting it in and I know how busy the holidays can get for printers. He said he could have it for me by the following Friday, 12/2. He didn't give me anything in writing and unfortunately I was in a rush and it didn't occur to me until later. The form with the details of the order I didn't sign and didn't get a copy of it.

The total of the order came to $60. He asked that I placed 50% down and that he only took checks. I wasn't exactly thrilled he didn't accept CCs 'cuz I like the consumer protections they offer but I went ahead with the order and gave him a check for $30.

Friday came and I called. I was told that the order had been printed but he didn't have it. He apparently sent it out to somewhere else--don't know why--and he hadn't received them back yet. I called back Monday 12/5,--still no notes. I reminded him I needed them by/on the 10th. He said they would be there Tuesday. Tuesday came--no notes. I called once more and left a message. He never returned it.

On the 10th, I still hadn't heard from him or received the notes. So I cancelled the check. I left town on the 11th and had to make other plans with another printer regarding my order. I got back into town yesterday to find my answering machine filled with messages from the first printer (he is also calling my work phone and leaving messages). He is demanding full payment but has yet to mention the order--which I don't need anymore. He is threatening a bad check charge and a collection agency.

So what are my options? Do I have a verbal contract with this guy? Even if I still needed the order, I wouldn't pay him on principle. The fact is I got hit with a huge express fee because I had to have the order printed at the last minute at another shop. So I really don't feel inclined to pay him. If a collection agency calls, I can't say it isn't my debt exactly. I am assuming they can ruin my credit. Any advice?

Yes, you have a verbal contract with the guy -- but how are you going to prove it? The court isn't just going to take your word for it.

You both screwed up here -- he breached your verbal contract by not delivering on time, but you also screwed up by resorting to "self-help."

Hate to say it, but probably the simplest way to resolve this situation is to simply pay him what he believes is due, then, if you are still pissed, sue him in small claims court for breach of contract. It may be tough to prove the existance of a verbal contract, but maybe if you can prove that you were going out of town on such-and-such a date, the court can imply that he agreed to get you the printing by that date, and therefore breached by not meeting that deadline.

Next time, get it in writing.

 

[jlg7744]

You both screwed up here -- he breached your verbal contract by not delivering on time, but you also screwed up by resorting to "self-help."

Do you mean by self-help the stop payment?

Thanks for the info and the advice.

 

[divgradcurl]

Do you mean by self-help the stop payment?

Thanks for the info and the advice.

Yes. Your legal remedy is to sue the other guy for breach of contract in small claims court. When he breached, you should have filed suit for the breach. That's the proper legal course of action. While stopping payment is certainly quicker and easier, its not the "legal" solution, and, as you are finding, can lead to other issues as well.

Of course, from a practical standpoint, it's often easier to handle things outside of a courtroom, like you tried to do -- that's fine, if both sides agree to handle it that way. But, like in this case, if one side doesn't want to play by those rules, you really need to follow the legal remedies to avoid any further issues down the line.

When I said "both sides screwed up," I wasn't saying that what you did was stupid or reckless or anything, just that you didn't have a LEGAL basis to stop payment on the check.

 

[palulukon]

i don't see how stopping payment on the check is illegal, folks do it all the time if they pay for something they do not receive. she paid, he did not give her what she paid for. he would have to prove that he did indeed give her what she ordered. she stopped payment for something she did not receive.

read the site i sent...it might give insight.

 

[jlg7744]

I actually went back to the bank and discussed the problem with the CSR who placed the stop payment for me. And while I know she wasn't a lawyer, she did give me a run down on what was legal and illegal. She claims what I did was legal. People do it all the time---of course, I would feel better if I could find it in black and white. The state has a page where it has the general laws on, but I can't find any reference to stop payments on checks.

jlg

 

[divgradcurl]

I actually went back to the bank and discussed the problem with the CSR who placed the stop payment for me. And while I know she wasn't a lawyer, she did give me a run down on what was legal and illegal. She claims what I did was legal. People do it all the time---of course, I would feel better if I could find it in black and white. The state has a page where it has the general laws on, but I can't find any reference to stop payments on checks.

jlg

Of course it's not illegal to stop payment on a check -- otherwise they wouldn't offer it as a service. It's not the same as knowingly writing a bad check, which is illegal. However, it is also not the proper legal remedy for a breach of contract case where there is a dispute over what is owed, and stopping payment on a check itself can breach a contract. Like I said before, if you had done this, and the other guy had realized he had made a mistake and decided it wasn't worth his time to pursue or decided to call it even, everything would be okay now. He obviously did decide to draw a line in the sand, so to speak, and it's unlikely that he is going to go away on his own, so now you are faced with the issues I alluded to in my earlier post.

 

[jlg7744]

There was a notice today from the mailman that they had tried to deliver something and they were returning it because they had tried to deliver 3x while I was away at work.

I have no idea what it is---I do know that I haven't ordered anything so I am thinking it might be related to this situation. Do papers from small claims court filing come from the plaintiff or the court itself?

 

[divgradcurl]

There was a notice today from the mailman that they had tried to deliver something and they were returning it because they had tried to deliver 3x while I was away at work.

I have no idea what it is---I do know that I haven't ordered anything so I am thinking it might be related to this situation. Do papers from small claims court filing come from the plaintiff or the court itself?

You could check the Massachusetts small claims court pages for more info, but I'm guessing they are like every other state, and it would be the plaintiff that is serving the papers.