Violation of Fourth Amendment Rights

[RLMSC]

What is the name of your state? South Carolina
A close relative of mine was recently pulled over on a "routine traffic" stop. The officer said he crossed the center line a couple of times. He never completely went into the other lane and there was no oncoming traffic. We had a preliminary hearing and the officer was questioned. The officer stated under oath that he was not in fear of his life and didn't feel threatened at any time. He also stated that he didn't suspect any use of alcohol or drugs. He also said that he didn't suspect that the subject had any weapons on him. He asked the subject to get out of the car and put his hands on the roof of the car. The subject did as asked and the officer patted him down. The officer said he felt something in his pocket and reached in. He found a pipe and drugs at that time. The officer said the subject was respectful at all times. Was this a violation of his fourth amendment rights for illegal search and seizure?What is the name of your state?

 

[JETX]

Was this a violation of his fourth amendment rights for illegal search and seizure?

Simple answer... no.

 

[RLMSC]

Unsure if you are right!?!

Thanks for your reply. I am still unsure if you are right! I would like to see if anyone else has any answers. I have heard that this could very possibly be a case. There are some laws that state an officer must have sufficient reasons for the search. There seems to be no sufficient reason to have asked the subject to step out of the car. There are some rules that must be applied in order to search someone and this situation didn't follow those rules. I am just trying to figure out what information I am getting is accurate. This was a routine traffic stop with no threat to the officer, no weapons, no disrespect, no alcohol or drugs suspected. What would warrant the right to ask the subject in this situation to step from the car and then be searched? On most routine traffic stops under these circumstances you are asked for your driver's liscense and insurance, issued a ticket or warning, and continue on your way.Thanks for any and all advice given. This doesn't seem like a simple no to me!

 

[mommyof4]

The sufficient reason was that your friend could not keep his car between the lines demarking the lane. It is entirely plausible that upon observation, he decided your buddy was on something.

 

[JETX]

This doesn't seem like a simple no to me!

Actually, it is VERY simple. The officer witnessed your 'relative' driving erratically. Your own post admits you were (sorry, I meant your 'relative').
"He never completely went into the other lane and there was no oncoming traffic."
There is NO requirement that he go completely into the other lane or that there be oncoming traffic.

If you don't like the ACCURATE answer here... have your attorney (sorry, your 'relatives' attorney) challenge the citation.

 

[garrula lingua]

The stop was good.

There's not enough facts (and the 'facts' stated regarding the search, are really conclusions, not facts) to decide if the search was OK. There's too many variables which are left out.

 

[RLMSC]

Jetx

It is not enough probable cause to make a traffic stop based solely on touching the middle lines in the road. You must cross completely or show danger to others on the highway. There was no erratic driving. If my RELATIVE even touched the middle lines at all the officer stated it was only for one or two times not even lasting a couple of seconds. This was after following the RELATIVE for over 2.5 miles, through four intersections, no speeding, and no endangerment to anyone! No oncoming traffic! This is not enough to even warrant the traffic stop in the first place, much less an illegal search! The laws for this basically say a driver is required to stay in their lane as much as possible without ever causing endangerment to fellow drivers. It doesn't say you always have to completely stay in your lane at all times while operating a vehicle. Haven't you ever gone into the other lane, swerving to miss the "GEICO SQUIRRELS," or looking down to change the radio?
An officer must feel in danger of his life, suspect drug or alcohol use, or weapons to make a legal search!
The stop is already being challenged in court. My RELATIVE won Round ONE! Sorry if this makes you angry! YOU may want to do more ACCURATE RESEARCH before you give your opinions and post them for legitimate people who want ACCURATE answers and information! We all have freedoms that are protected under our CONSTITUTION and the fourth amendment is one of the mopst important!
Maybe this will give you some more detailed information to work with. Still looking for ACCURATE answers to the original question. Was this a violation of my RELATIVES fourth amendment rights?

 

[JETX]

It is not enough probable cause to make a traffic stop based solely on touching the middle lines in the road. You must cross completely or show danger to others on the highway.
This is not enough to even warrant the traffic stop in the first place, much less an illegal search!
An officer must feel in danger of his life, suspect drug or alcohol use, or weapons to make a legal search!

Was this a violation of my RELATIVES fourth amendment rights?

Oh, of course... you are 100% correct. This was clearly a violation of your 'relatives' rights. Absolutely!!!
Go into court and demand that they dismiss the charges.

 

[mommyof4]

Actually you are wrong! You must be an officer of the court in some capacity. You obviously have acted in the same violating manners to citizens. It is my RELATIVE. BOO HOO FOR YOU!
It is not enough probable cause to make a traffic stop based solely on touching the middle lines in the road. You must cross completely or show danger to others on the highway. There was no erratic driving. If my RELATIVE even touched the middle lines at all the officer stated it was only for one or two times not even lasting a couple of seconds. This was after following the RELATIVE for over 2.5 miles, through four intersections, no speeding, and no endangerment to anyone! No oncoming traffic! This is not enough to even warrant the traffic stop in the first place, much less an illegal search! The laws for this basically say a driver is required to stay in their lane as much as possible without ever causing endangerment to fellow drivers. It doesn't say you always have to completely stay in your lane at all times while operating a vehicle. Haven't you ever gone into the other lane, swerving to miss the "GEICO SQUIRRELS," or looking down to change the radio?
An officer must feel in danger of his life, suspect drug or alcohol use, or weapons to make a legal search!
The stop is already being challenged in court. My RELATIVE won Round ONE! Sorry if this makes you angry! YOU may want to do more ACCURATE RESEARCH before you give your opinions and post them for legitimate people who want ACCURATE answers and information! We all have freedoms that are protected under our CONSTITUTION and the fourth amendment is one of the mopst important!
Maybe this will give you some more detailed information to work with. Still looking for ACCURATE answers to the original question. Was this a violation of my RELATIVES fourth amendment rights?

Is this seriously your buddy's defense to the traffic stop? I f you are driving along and get distracted, causing you to drive erratically, the officer most certainly CAN pull you over. I guess you have missed out on the past YEARS of debate about cell phone usage while driving?

The laws do not say 'stay in your lane as much as possible'.

 

[RLMSC]

Jetx & Mommy Of 4

You must be an officer of the court!!! I seemed to hit a major nerve with you! This simply tells me you work on the opposites sides of the table. I am not looking for replies from the likes of you! You are the idiot in this case, and you should learn the laws some more! Maybe you should take some anger management classes!
Actually the laws DO NOT require you to totally stay in your own lanes at all times! There was no cell phone, and I didn't say he was actually distracted! I simply stated some of the reasons that a driver may leave their own lane. I have read a book that clarifies these traffic laws. Maybe you all should too!
Again looking for people with SOUND and ACCURATE answers. I never stated this was the line of defense that won ROUND ONE! I am just putting some of the legitimate facts out to get legitimate accurate user friendly answers!
I have no provblem receiving accurate calm answers if they follow the law. I do have facts that state this was not probable cause to even make a trafiic stop, much less the SEARCH! There are ways for each of you to access case files accross this nation that have put these laws to use. They are there to protect us, not harm us, or anyone else. Routine traffic stops ususally consist of a citation and have a nice safe driving day! There was no suspicion of any other problems causing inteference with his driving! The officer testified to this fact under OATH!

 

[Zigner]

You're not allowed to drive the wrong direction on the road except in specific circumstances.
Just for grins, what type of center line did "your relative" cross?

 

[mommyof4]

You know what they say about assumptions.

Why would I need to take an anger management course? I'm not angry... a little amazed that you think you can drive wherever you like as long as an officer doesn't feel that his life or the lives of others is in danger, but not angry. I say that maybe your relative should put down the pipe and back away slowly. While he is at it, we would all greatly appreciate if he abstain from operating any potentially deadly machinery...that includes his car.

I used the cell phone debate as an EXAMPLE. Stay with me, here. Focus....

If he was not distracted, please let us know what his reasoning was for not being able to keep his car in the proper lane. Could it have anything to do with that nifty little pipe in his pocket? Hmmmm....

 

[RLMSC]

Mommy of 4

The anger management classes were not directed at you, that comment was for JETX. There are no assumptions in this case. It has been won! It was proven that there was no sufficient cause for the stop. My RELATIVE is a cancer patient and never drives while under the influence of any substances!! Sorry not everyone out there with a pipe is an abuser!!
Stay focused mommy! I was not the driver and do not think you can drive any way you want to on a highway. However, there are endangering circumstances and then there are those that are not. He simply crossed the line on accident. If he even crossed it at all. Actually, the officer said his front left bumper only touched the center line. He caused no injury to anyone and no one was ever in danger from him. Have you always stayed completely in your own lane on every single driving occasion? I seriously doubt if any one that drives has!
The only question still remains was, is this also an illegal search and seizure? The feedback I'm geting from legitimate places says, YES! I didn't post on this site for kicks! I have better things to do. I am simply trying to help a RELATIVE that needs advice. I am beginning to think this forum is used for entertainment and not legitimate advice. I took a chance and thought someone might could offer actual information that could help. You all are focused on the wrong part of this message. This forum is not offering actual legal advice of any kind. You all are offering warped personal opinions. If the officer had a right to stop my RELATIVE the case would not have went in his favor!
Thanks anyway for entertaining me for a few moments with nonsense. It is always fun to see how many people think they know so much, without actually focusing on the facts and events. The question was posted for ACCURATE information not entertainment. Maybe some of you are spending a little too much time on the internet and not focusing on the important things in your lives. I wanted to help a sick RELATIVE get justice. I'm not here for amusement! Time is of the essence in this situation, and I don't have time for opinions or judgemental statements about someone's personal behavior behind closed doors. I will wait it out today and see if I can get some sound advice, but I don't have time for ignorance or opinions!

 

[mommyof4]

The anger management classes were not directed at you, that comment was for JETX. There are no assumptions in this case.

You assumed that a poster was an officer of the court. Can you definitively say you are correct, or are you just making a guess (assuming)?


It has been won! It was proven that there was no sufficient cause for the stop. My RELATIVE is a cancer patient and never drives while under the influence of any substances!! Sorry not everyone out there with a pipe is an abuser!!

If you want accurate answers, it helps to include all relevant information. NOWHERE, in all of your novels, did you say he suffered from a medical condition. You said that he was searched and found to have a pipe and "drugs" on his person.

Stay focused mommy! I was not the driver and do not think you can drive any way you want to on a highway. However, there are endangering circumstances and then there are those that are not. He simply crossed the line on accident. If he even crossed it at all. Actually, the officer said his front left bumper only touched the center line. He caused no injury to anyone and no one was ever in danger from him. Have you always stayed completely in your own lane on every single driving occasion? I seriously doubt if any one that drives has!

Here's the difference. I didn't state that the law says that you must stay in your lane if possible. I never said you were driving and I seriously doubt your claim that the officer had this nice long explanation and then cited him and searched him. T

he only question still remains was, is this also an illegal search and seizure? The feedback I'm geting from legitimate places says, YES! I didn't post on this site for kicks! I have better things to do. I am simply trying to help a RELATIVE that needs advice. I am beginning to think this forum is used for entertainment and not legitimate advice. I took a chance and thought someone might could offer actual information that could help. You all are focused on the wrong part of this message. This forum is not offering actual legal advice of any kind. You all are offering warped personal opinions. If the officer had a right to stop my RELATIVE the case would not have went in his favor!
Thanks anyway for entertaining me for a few moments with nonsense. It is always fun to see how many people think they know so much, without actually focusing on the facts and events. The question was posted for ACCURATE information not entertainment. Maybe some of you are spending a little too much time on the internet and not focusing on the important things in your lives. I wanted to help a sick RELATIVE get justice. I'm not here for amusement! Time is of the essence in this situation, and I don't have time for opinions or judgemental statements about someone's personal behavior behind closed doors. I will wait it out today and see if I can get some sound advice, but I don't have time for ignorance or opinions!

I find your follow up explanations to be very convenient. Oh, please keep in mind that you get what you pay for. And, it wouldn't be a bad idea for you to check into those AM classes. You seem to get very agitated when the answers you get do not match the ones you demand we give you.

 

[David Jonathan]

here's what I'm reading (in the orignial post only)

** Suspect's driving seemed to be distracted. "Touched" the center lane a "few" times (define a few, and in what distance) This could be reason for an officer to pull someone over - touching the center line could be a sign of being tired, if this is the case, being pulled over will sure wake you up.

** Officer stopped the suspect because he was concerned there was some issue that kept the suspect from driving safely (still within the officers rights)

** Officer didn't suspect drugs (per what they said in court), but wanted to question the driver. for the officers safety, and routine procedure, the officer patted suspect down for guns and other weapons.

** Officer feels something suspicious in suspects pocket.

at this point, I wonder, did the officer ask what was in the suspects pocket, or ask to reach in the pocket, or did the officer just reach in and grab it?

The officer testified that he was not in fear of his life, was this before, or after the search? (bet no one asked that of the officer while he was on the stand)

while there MAY have been a 4th amendment violation durring this stop, trying to prove it would be EXTREMELY dificult, take a lot of time, and cost a LOT of money. and 10 to 1 says no lawyer will try to take on a case like that, and fighting it yourself will drain you of all your resources (money, time, energy, etc) because not only will you be working on the case, you'll also be studying the law, case law, the rules of procedure, rules of evidence, etc. You'll have to pay expert witnesses, and SO much more.

100 bucks says if your relative gets into rehab, and ongoing treatment for their drug problem, the court would be willing to expunge the record if there's "no same or similar" after a couple years along with a fine and some probation.

--Dave.