VTL 1160 vs. 1163a

[Mike 2525]

As far as the charge goes, what does the description box say on the ticket??

VTL 1163a is usually written for failing to signal a turn, not an improper turn. Improper turns are written under VTL 1160 (various subsections).

I just read the statute, and it does mention vehicle positioning, but I have never written 1163a for anything except failing to signal. Specifics on proper vehicle positioning for turns is covered in 1160.

This is a two point moving violation which should carry a minimum $50 fine and a state surcharge of $80.

I received a ticket for an "improper turn." I was driving east in the right lane on 42nd St behind a truck. Approximately 50 feet from 11th Ave, the truck stopped in front of an apartment building very close to the corner and put on its flashers. I went around the truck. I was in the middle lane and traffic was coming up behind me. In front of the double parked truck was a taxi discharging a passenger. The right lane also had a solid white line. In addition, I had been to a doctor 2 days prior for intense pain in my right shoulder (I have the medical records). I'm battling cancer and the medicine caused a calcium build up in my shoulder. The pain was still present. I didn’t want to block traffic so I continued and made a wide turn from the middle lane onto 11th Ave after the solid white line ended. A cop was sitting half way between 42 & 41st streets on the east side of 11th Ave in his cruiser facing south. . He didn’t ask me any questions & gave me a 1163(a) ticket for an “Improper turn,” which he wrote in the box on the ticket. He did not cite me for failure to signal. Isn’t VTL1163(a) given for failure to signal? Shouldn’t he have cited VTL 1160(a)? He couldn’t see the truck double parked on 42nd St. from his position. I’ve never received a ticket since I received my license 34 yrs. ago. Do I have a case? Do you think the ticket is valid?
As an aside, I had 4 or 5 PBA cards with me at the time, but none of them were signed. I've been driving for 34yrs. and I've never gotten a ticket or pulled over. I didn't know I had to sign the PBA cards. I presented the cards to the officer & he gave me a ticket anyway because they weren't signed!!!

 

[Zigner]

On your post please be sure to point out where the traffic law allows you to make a right turn from the middle lane.

 

[Mike 2525]

On your post please be sure to point out where the traffic law allows you to make a right turn from the middle lane.

VTL1160 states, "Right turns. Both the approach for a right turn and a right turn
shall be made as close as practicable to the right hand curb or edge of
the roadway or, where travel on the shoulder or slope has been
authorized, from the shoulder or slope.

But this is not the statute for which I was charged. I was charged with vtl 1163a which states, "No person shall
turn a vehicle at an intersection unless the vehicle is in proper
position upon the roadway as required in section eleven hundred sixty,
or turn a vehicle to enter a private road or driveway, or otherwise turn
a vehicle from a direct course or move right or left upon a roadway
unless and until such movement can be made with reasonable safety. No
person shall so turn any vehicle without giving an appropriate signal in
the manner hereinafter provided."

The officer cited me for vtl1163a and wrote "Improper turn" in the box on the ticket. He did not write failure to signal which would normally correspond to vtl1163a for which I was cited. In addition, there was a truck blocking the right turning lane. Was I supposed to sit behind the truck until he decided to move or go around him and block traffic in the middle lane or signal and make a safe turn "as close as practicable to the right hand curb?"

 

[Zigner]

VTL1160 states, "Right turns. Both the approach for a right turn and a right turn
shall be made as close as practicable to the right hand curb or edge of
the roadway or, where travel on the shoulder or slope has been
authorized, from the shoulder or slope.

But this is not the statute for which I was charged. I was charged with vtl 1163a which states, "No person shall
turn a vehicle at an intersection unless the vehicle is in proper
position upon the roadway as required in section eleven hundred sixty,
or turn a vehicle to enter a private road or driveway, or otherwise turn
a vehicle from a direct course or move right or left upon a roadway
unless and until such movement can be made with reasonable safety. No
person shall so turn any vehicle without giving an appropriate signal in
the manner hereinafter provided."

The officer cited me for vtl1163a and wrote "Improper turn" in the box on the ticket. He did not write failure to signal which would normally correspond to vtl1163a for which I was cited. In addition, there was a truck blocking the right turning lane. Was I supposed to sit behind the truck until he decided to move or go around him and block traffic in the middle lane or signal and make a safe turn "as close as practicable to the right hand curb?"

You should have continued to the next safe place to make a right and NOT turned from the middle lane, as it is illegal to do so. In essence, you made a right turn from the middle lane because is was more expeditious and convenient for you.

 

[Mike 2525]

You should have continued to the next safe place to make a right and NOT turned from the middle lane, as it is illegal to do so. In essence, you made a right turn from the middle lane because is was more expeditious and convenient for you.

If what you are saying is true, I should have been cited for vtl1160 which is not the case. How does vtl1163a apply to my alleged violation? I was not cited for failure to signal or an unsafe turn.

 

[Zigner]

If what you are saying is true, I should have been cited for vtl1160 which is not the case. How does vtl1163a apply to my alleged violation? I was not cited for failure to signal or an unsafe turn.

Why do you believe that "No person shall turn a vehicle at an intersection unless the vehicle is in proper position upon the roadway as required in section eleven hundred sixty..." doesn't apply?

 

[Mike 2525]

Why do you believe that "No person shall turn a vehicle at an intersection unless the vehicle is in proper position upon the roadway as required in section eleven hundred sixty..." doesn't apply?

You are forgetting to add, "unless and until such movement can be made with reasonable safety." The turn was made safely. The officer did not write it on the ticket the turn was unsafe, careless or reckless. He wrote "Improper turn." If the turn was improper, why didn't he cite vtl1160?

 

[Zigner]

You are forgetting to add, "unless and until such movement can be made with reasonable safety." The turn was made safely. The officer did not write it on the ticket the turn was unsafe, careless or reckless. He wrote "Improper turn." If the turn was improper, why didn't he cite vtl1160?

It sounds to me like the officer felt you didn't make a safe turn.

ETA: None of us are the officer who wrote the citation, so there's no way we can comment on "why" he felt that way, "why" he cited you for the section, or "why" the officer did anything else.

 

[Mike 2525]

It sounds to me like the officer felt you didn't make a safe turn.

ETA: None of us are the officer who wrote the citation, so there's no way we can comment on "why" he felt that way, "why" he cited you for the section, or "why" the officer did anything else.

You are correct. I'm just trying to defend myself based upon the rule of law. I was cited for an improper turn. If the officer thought or felt differently, he should have written the correct wording/offense on the ticket. At this point he cannot change the ticket and the judge must litigate based upon the ticket itself. According to vtl1163a, again for which I am cited, a driver can make an improper turn as long as "such movement can be made with reasonable safety." This is not to say improper turns aren't illegal. They are and should be cited correctly under vtl1160a.

 

[Zigner]

You are correct. I'm just trying to defend myself based upon the rule of law. I was cited for an improper turn. If the officer thought or felt differently, he should have written the correct wording/offense on the ticket. At this point he cannot change the ticket and the judge must litigate based upon the ticket itself. According to vtl1163a, again for which I am cited, a driver can make an improper turn as long as "such movement can be made with reasonable safety." This is not to say improper turns aren't illegal. They are and should be cited correctly under vtl1160a.

First: The informational text that the officer writes on the ticket has absolutely no bearing on the matter.
Second: What you did WAS an unsafe turn, particularly based on the complex situation that you describe.

 

[Mike 2525]

First: The informational text that the officer writes on the ticket has absolutely no bearing on the matter.
Second: What you did WAS an unsafe turn, particularly based on the complex situation that you describe.

If the informational text does not have any bearing, why does Highwayman, a NYPD officer, at the beginning of this thread ask what was written in the information box for someone else with the same problem?
If the turn was unsafe, why did the officer write "improper turn"? Why didn't he write "unsafe?" I'm betting the judge will ask the same question. There weren't any cars in front of me. There weren't any cars to my left and the only vehicles to my right were the taxi discharging a passenger, which was at 20 feet away, and the truck which was at least 2o feet behind me. As I stated earlier, I made a very wide turn in order to turn safely. I'm just curious how you can say the turn was not safe when you were not present? Based upon what I described, it was completely impossible for me to hit anything or anyone. Do you think this could be why the officer did not cite me for an unsafe turn?

VTL1163a is basically a statute for failure to signal if you read it in its entirety.

 

[Zigner]

If the informational text does not have any bearing, why does Highwayman, a NYPD officer, at the beginning of this thread ask what was written in the information box for someone else with the same problem?
If the turn was unsafe, why did the officer write "improper turn"? Why didn't he write "unsafe?" I'm betting the judge will ask the same question. There weren't any cars in front of me. There weren't any cars to my left and the only vehicles to my right were the taxi discharging a passenger, which was at 20 feet away, and the truck which was at least 2o feet behind me. As I stated earlier, I made a very wide turn in order to turn safely. I'm just curious how you can say the turn was not safe when you were not present? Based upon what I described, it was completely impossible for me to hit anything or anyone. Do you think this could be why the officer did not cite me for an unsafe turn?

I based my statement on the fact that an absolutely unbiased witness to the even, with experience in traffic law states that your turn was not safe. Again, we cannot speak to the "why" of anything the officer did.

VTL1163a is basically a statute for failure to signal if you read it in its entirety.

I disagree.

 

[Mike 2525]

I based my statement on the fact that an absolutely unbiased witness to the even, with experience in traffic law states that your turn was not safe. Again, we cannot speak to the "why" of anything the officer did.

I disagree.

This occurred 1 year ago. I'll let you know what happens when I go to court 3-4 years from now.

 

[Zigner]

So, you're a troll. Gotcha

 

[Mike 2525]

So, you're a troll. Gotcha

Not at all. Just exercising my legal rights. Shouldn't we all have equal protection under the law? If someone defends himself, he's a troll? This make a lot of sense. lol