What about paying for college expenses #2?

[mitzi32]

What is the name of your state? Minnesota

Thank you all for your replys. I posted this separate in hopes all of you would continue to read this and reply again. Please continue to read and give more advice. I appreciate all of your knowledge and opinions.

My eldest is doing very well in school and I hope she does get many scholarships. Thank you for your advice. We will definitely do research and talk to her high school counselor well in advance. College expenses for one year of college is around $11,000.00 I have four children, three which are recieving child support right now. I failed to mention that my eldest is in 7th grade, not High School. I confused Jr. High with High School because in our small town, everyone calls 7th grade High school since it is in the High School building.

I realize that it is my responsibilty to support my girls also. My current husband and I are definitely supporting the girls with everything we have plus what we recieve in child support. We don't live a fancy lifestyle either. We try to buy things we need on clearance or already used items to avoid high costs and further debt. Our cars are older also (lower insurance, tabs, costs of vehicle, etc..) Our entertainment expenses are usually with family trying to find something to do that is free, sports movies on tv, etc... Other than our mortagage being our biggest bill, after that is the girls extra activites for school, dance, band, etc...I wish we could put this money in a college fund but I know extra activities are beneficial for them. My husband and I are far from being materialistic and try to spend the least amount on us and are always thinking of our children and spending it on them.

To sum things up, I have 4 children. 4 years of college for all of them $176,000. While my oldest 3 are in college, I will still have one child at home to support with my hubby while trying to come up with college expenses. While our 3 girls are in college, my ex will have no finanical responsibilites except for his wife. I am footed all the college bills, $132,000 for three girls plus my husband and I have the responsiblities of our childs expenses and college expenses of $44,000.00 for a total of $176,000 that my current husband and I am assumed to pay or take loans just for college. My ex will make over $120,000 by then pluse he already owns two homes. He will not be paying child support when all three are in college. My hubby and I will make about 1/2 of what he makes. (we both have college or post secondary education, just not the right ones for income, police officer and edcuation and that is if I can get a full time job by then. The cuts for schools around here have been overwhelming lately. So, now it is all out in the open financially. Maybe you have more advice?

I would be more than happy for him to pay directly to the college! I don't want the money myself!!!!!!!

More thoughts would be appreciated!

Beth, how did you end up getting him to pay 75% of their costs? The original divorce order was made when the children were 1, 3, and 4. I suppose at the time, the lawyer didn't even think of college expenses!


I am very thankful for your advice!!!

 

[kat1963]

Is there a problem with them getting student loans? I know very few people who didn't have to pay back at least a little something after graduation. Did you know that the more household members you have in college the cheaper it usually is & the more tax benefits there are? This would be the perfect opportunity for you and/or your Mr. to continue your educations. What do you want to do that you haven't had to chance to do so far in life? Think about it, I'm sure there is something!! It’s pretty obvious that you are jealous of your ex financially so do something to bring your family up to that level. Hundred grand might seem like a lot when you are struggling but it’s really not all that much plus it’s really not that hard to obtain either. Trust me, reaching a 6 figure income is easier then child birth; you just have to empower yourself. Stewing over your ex's income does nothing but shorter your life span, age you faster & causes great big saggin' wrinkles so knock that off too.

You can always give your ex custody… maybe if he's the custodial parent when college comes around he'll help fund their educations.

KAT

 

[mitzi32]

Wow Kat!
I personally don't care about my ex's finances....I care about my children!!! What he does with his life is his business. For the girls sake, I hope their dad enjoys his life and has a very wealthy and healthy life. I care about my girls and their life ahead of them. The girls father has the means to help them financially with college and if he was a concerned, considerate, loving father he would naturally help them out, but to get $3.00 out of him for prescribed meds is difficult. Obviously, the reason why I am asking the questions in getting help with college.

I am going to ignore your advice. It sounds like you have issues to deal with yourself.

 

[BethM]

It’s pretty obvious that you are jealous of your ex financially so do something to bring your family up to that level.

You can't be serious? Her thinking does not come from jealously...just good common sense. Since when is it unreasonable for a child's parent, mother or father, to want to help with college expenses? Regardless of their income?

My son is a junior in college. He gets full federal grants and loans, all that he is allowed. On top of that I apply each year for parent loans. There is still a cap on what he can get and although I heard so much about schalorships before he started school, when you get to the point of applying you find they are limited and the competition is overwhelming.

My son works and pays for his car insurance, buys his own meal tickets and covers all his other misc. expenses. I cover the rest of tuition and books that is not covered by federal aid, grants and loans.

I fill out his FAFSA every year based on my income. If I incorporated his father's income he would not qualify for any financial aid at all. In other words the government is of the opinion that a man who makes my ex husband's income should be able to put his child through school with no help from them. Too bad my ex husband does not feel as willing to help his own child as the government does. Am I jealous? No, I'm angry that he can send a message to his child that the $3500 a year he has to spend is more important than the child.

How did I get the 75%? It was a battle and it took me two and one half years to get it. Actually I haven't gotten it yet. So far I've done it on my own with help from the government. My ex was ordered to pay 50% the year before my son started to college. He has refused. He kept putting stipulations on how he would pay and when he would pay. Didn't feel he should have to follow a court order.

I finally got him back into court in Sept. 2004 for contempt. The judge didn't like his attitude and told him he could pay 75%. The fool has stil not paid me. He is supposed to pay back 75% of what I have paid. Pay off 75% of all loans my son had to take out and pay 75% of all future educational expenses.

I've yet to see any money but I have a feeling I will soon. I got a letter today from the court clerk. I've filed contempt again and the judge has sent out a letter telling my ex that he can now pay 90% or show up June 15 and explain to the judge why he shouldn't be held in contempt and jailed.

mitzi, my ex is just like your ex. He is supposed to pay 75% of all out of pocket medical expenses. This is something he VOLUNTEERED to do during our initial divorce hearing. Every three months I send him any medical bills I have paid, proof of payment and a request for him to reimburse me. Never happens. Won't ever happen and thank goodness I was able to get the children on my medical insurance. The coverage is better and I don't feel like fighting their father for every nickel and dime I need to keep them healthy.

I paid my way through college. My parents never filled out a financial aid form. Never had any idea where I came up with the money to get through. It struggled like hell because I had to and it was not easy. Some would say it makes us better people to have to work for it. I don't feel it made any difference in my character at all. I missed out on a lot that my girlfriends were able to participate in because they had parents who helped. I remember thinking that I would do anything to help any child I had enjoy those years of their lives and to be able to do it without having to struggle the way I did.

My ex husband's father paid for everything. He paid tuition, books, dorm fees, meal tickets plus gave the guy an allowance. It took the fool until he was 27 years old to finish college with someone taking care of all the bills.

I don't want my child to have a free ride like his father did. I want him shown that he is worth his father making the effort though and I believe that is any child's right. They don't ask to be born and when we make the choice to bring them into the world we owe them a fair shake and, these days, a college education is part of that package. I'm just glad the state of Alabame feels the same way.

 

[Inquiry123]

No Free Ride

I personally don't care about my ex's finances....I care about my children!!! What he does with his life is his business. For the girls sake, I hope their dad enjoys his life and has a very wealthy and healthy life. I care about my girls and their life ahead of them. The girls father has the means to help them financially with college and if he was a concerned, considerate, loving father he would naturally help them out, but to get $3.00 out of him for prescribed meds is difficult.

Mitzi:

My Dad is/was VERY wealthy. He is/was concerned, considerate, loving. He helped me out...he prepared me to succeed! When I was in Jr. High, I knew that after High School I was expected to make it on my own. I got a part time job in the evenings/weekends. The day after graduation, I was on a bus out of town. I paid for the ticket. I had a job set-up. I bought a car. I worked for two years and then went to college for five. My dad never paid a cent.

We meet accross town to have lunch once a week, now. And now I make him pay the tab every other week! I thank him several times a year for the lessons he taught me.

I can afford to put my children through college. I won't. I'd rather parent now than pay later. If you don't care about your ex's finances, why don't you just imagine that he's got nothing -- then what are you going to do?

By the way, I don't like to pay $3.00 co-pays, either. $3.00?! Who's got issues?!

 

[mitzi32]

BethM, Thank you for your response. Obviously, you are the only one that has responded that knows what I am going through. You know what I mean about trying to get $3.00 out of him for expenses and if he doesn't pay that the amount he owes just gets bigger and bigger... and if I don't ask for the money then he decides to take me to court and says I don't need the money because I didn't ask for it. Your whole message sounds so much like 'me'.
I hope your court date goes as you plan. It is very frustrating to have an uncooperative ex. You sound like a very good mother that has steered her son in the right direction! Thank you for all the information, comfort, and help!
INQUIRY...I care about my children and their future! I feel sorry for your children! Obviously, you knew that if you needed something, money, or were in debt while you were in college, your 'daddy' could bail you out since he is so VERY wealthy!!!
I can tell you a lesson I learned and that is... there is a very thin line from living on the streets and trying to thrive.... and a person that is so desperate to just 'live' will almost do anything to make it. I understand why women turn to selling their bodies, drugs and turn to any means just to make it. I did not do that but I understand why women do it. They have no support what so ever. I do not want that for my daughters. If you can work 2 years and make $50,000 (that is what my girls would have to make, well probably over that by the time they are ready for college) to cover college expenses, your job that was 'set-up' must have been good. Better than most women can get without a college education! Also, I worked the day after my 16th birthday and saved all my tip money plus part of my check for college. The money did not last long. I paid for everything myself while in college..rent, car insurance, food, clothing, college expenses. Actually, I didn't buy any clothing but wore jeans with holes in them because I could not afford them. I was not able to get any loans. My parents could have taken out a loan but they did not! I did not receive any pell grants or any other kind of help. So, if I did not have money to eat, I did not eat. There was no 'fun' and definitely no balance in my life. You can't tell me that If I tell my daughters they are on their own after high school, go make minimum wage $5.00 hr....$800.00 a month, when rent is almost $800.00 that they are going to make it on their own plus pay tuition. Where did you go to school and learn math!? I dont' want my children to struggle, but I don't want them to have a free ride either. It is all about balance.

Also, everyone suggests that my girls work while in High School. Naturally, I would want them to do that, but if their dad does not allow them to work because he will miss visitations, they are not going to be able to hold a job going back and forth.

You are definitely not rational!....he is their father and if we were still married, he would have to help pay for some of their college. It is just common sense! Just because they don't live together doesn't mean he shouldn't still be responsible. It sounds like you did not learn a thing from making it on your own, except to be greedy from your children. Maybe they will end up crossing that narrow line and end up on the streets. Issues....who has issues now?! Goodluck!

 

[Inquiry123]

INQUIRY...I care about my children and their future! I feel sorry for your children! Obviously, you knew that if you needed something, money, or were in debt while you were in college, your 'daddy' could bail you out since he is so VERY wealthy!!!

Ouch! Normally, that would have hurt...Fortunately, my super-wallet deflected that otherwise painful barb! Obviously, we did not make a "Love Connection"! Maybe we can get back together in 15 years to see how things worked-out?!

I'm sorry that my experience was not helpful for your situation. Hopefully, none of our daughters will wind-up becoming prostitutes. Likewise, Good Luck.

 

[nextwife]

You are definitely not rational!....he is their father and if we were still married, he would have to help pay for some of their college.

And what law are you citing that makes him "have to" pay for college in an intact marriage! I have many still married friends with kids NOW in college, and helping or not is a CHOICE.

I have a relative who returned to college once her youngest was in school - in her late 30s. She became a lawyer. Her additional income was what helped suppliment her kids college costs. Instead of whining about how much more he earns than you, you COULD have also worked harder to generate a comparable income. It was YOUR choice to have additional children and your choice to not work on developing your own decent income.

No, my dad WAS married to my mom, but he did not "have to pay" for college. Actually, he was disabled and dying at that time, and deceased when my younger sibs went off to college.

NO, there is NO legal requirement that parents in an intact marriage pay for college.

Your kids will be adults at that time. It is THEY who should approach THEIR dad and work out whatever he may be willing to WITH HIM. Whatever he provides them should be set up between them - with you NOT in the middle. Dad may very well be willing to PROVIDE to them something he may NOT pay to you directly. They should also keep HIM involved in the college selection process when the time comes. My still married friends all had input as to where their kids went to school.

 

[stealth2]

nextwife is correct - there is NO requirement that parents pay for a college education, whether they are married or not. SOME court orders will include it (mine does, but it was a special circumstance that lead to it), but it is not a given. Nor does not wanting to pay mean a parent doesn't love a child as much as one who does want to pay - it means that the parents have different philosophies.

(edit) and btw - it's counterproductive to start a new thread to continue an ongoing discussion. The thread gets bumped to the top with each post anyway.

 

[BethM]

And what law are you citing that makes him "have to" pay for college in an intact marriage! I have many still married friends with kids NOW in college, and helping or not is a CHOICE.

Helping is a choice and it is a choice that the majority of the families, intact or not, in this country make. The majority does not dictate whether one makes the choice to help but it does set an example as far as what basic parental desires are. You have the CHOICE to not help your children through college and the majority of us do make that choice.

My ex husband and I had made the choice to help. My oldest was 14 years old when my ex decided to opt out on the marriage. The child knew where he was going to college, knew what he would major in and worked very hard to keep his grades up. He had always been told by his father that he would have the same opportunities the father had.

The only thing that changed when my ex left was the legalities pertaining to our marriage. In my opinion and that of the courts the father's responsibilities to his children did not change. You can't parent a child for 14 years and then decide to change your position on how to parent. The courts won't hold him responsible for promises he made me over the years but they did hold him responsible to promises he made to his children. I back that up 100%.

If you are a parent who feels it is not in your child's best interest then don't be a financial part of those years. I'm not one of those parents.

What amazes me is that someone will come on these boards asking about post majority support for education and it never fails...people have to give their opinions about how a child should not be helped through college.

I don't remember this poster asking anyone for their opinion on her moral belief that her daughter should be helped financially by her parents.

nextwife always has to show up and tell the story about how she put herself through college and how her children will do the same. Who cares?

This poster isn't concerned about how anyone here managed to get a college education or how their children will get one. She is concerned about her daughter and whether or not the courts in her state can force her daughter's father to help with expenses. It's that simple.

She isn't ramming her beliefs down anyone's throats and I don't understand why others who disagree with her feel the need to ram their beliefs down her throat.

It is a personal issue that could be argued until the end of time and all sides involved could come up with reasons why their beliefs are the best. In the end we all end up doing what we feel is right for us and our children.

I find it funny that the government of this country feels a financial obligation to our children as far as college expenses but not all parents do. I also find it very funny that those here who say that it isn't their responsibility to help with education don't have a problem with the government being partially responsible. Kinda like living on the dole isn't it? You have no qualms about your child taking money from the government to get that education BUT you spout off about how they are better served if they get it on their own. A bit of a contridiction when, in reality that child will not be paying for the majority of it...the government will.

Here is the bottom line...some children have parents who want to help financially and freely give to that child. Some parents don't want to help financially and tell that child to go get grants and loans and scharlorships. In other words they say to that child, "yep, go to college, go out there and get all that other money that other people are willing to give you but don't think for one minute you are going to get any of my money." Sorry, just not a message I want to send to my child.

But hey, you have the right to live your life any way you want to. Damned good thing there are government grants, loans and schalorships to take over when you decide your job is done. God forbid you have to part with some of that hard earned money.

By the way, I don't like to pay $3.00 co-pays, either. $3.00?! Who's got issues?!

Those $3.00 dollar co-pays add up. Just like the orthodontics bill, the bill after surgery where the andoids were removed and all those other expenses related to keeping a child healthy. Who has issues? The parent who refuses to reimburse the other parent no matter what the amount.

I make good money. Enough to afford us a decent lifestyle. It takes every penny I make to do that. I've been down to less than $3.00 in the bank at the end of the month at times due to expenses I incurr while raising our children. That $3.00 co-pay means something to me. It is not my ex husband's job to determine whether that $3.00 should or should not mean something to me. It's his job to pay it whether he thinks it's stupid or not. If he doesn't pay it, he is the one with issues, not me.

Three bucks might mean a little more to this poster than it does to you. Just because you don't put the same value on it that she does, gives you nor anyone else the right to tell her she has issues. The first year after my divorce my children and I used to count change just to buy a gallon of milk. I've seen days when $3.00 would seem like a lot of money.

It seems funny to me that you put yourself through college but aren't able to understand that, at times, $3.00 can mean a hell of a lot. I put myself through college also. I remember finding a $5.00 bill once and feeling rich. I don't have issues and neither does this poster. She knows the value of every dollar she makes and every dollar she spends and doesn't have the luxury of scoffing at those $3.00 co-pays that add up. The person with issues is the one who doesn't know the value of a dollar, who has no idea what it means to struggle and who can put their money before their children and making sure their children get a fair start in life...that includes a college education.

 

[stealth2]

The long and the short of it is that courts do NOT force married parents to pay for college. Unless it is written into an order, most courts do NOT force unmarried parents to pay for college. Not all parents can afford to help pay for college. Some parents feel that it is character-building to have a goal and to strive to achieve it, rather than have it handed to you on a platter. Making that parenting choice is neither better nor worse than choosing to go ahead and pay for college costs. It is simply a difference in philosophy. From personal experience, the kids whose parents signed the necessary checks had a much more party-oriented outlook on college than those who had to work their way through to pay for tuition, rely on keeping up their grades to ensure that the scholarships/grants/financial aid kept pace with the costs, etc.

So nextwife gievs her opinion and outlook? So did you. Several times. So why do you get to do so, yet piss and moan about others who do, just because their opinion differs from yours?

 

[BethM]

So nextwife gievs her opinion and outlook? So did you. Several times. So why do you get to do so, yet piss and moan about others who do, just because their opinion differs from yours?

I get to do so because this thread was started by someone who shares my opinion. It was started by someone asking for legal advice on the subject of child support beyond high school. She didn't come here asking for OPINIONs from others who don't share her belief that her ex should be responsible for those expenses. The first pissing and moaning was done by those who came here, not to give legal advice, but to give their opinions based on their beliefs that she is wrong.

nextwife ALWAYS shows up on these thread to piss and moan about how she put herself through college and how her children will also put themselves through college. This thread was not started by someone looking for opinions and outlooks. Like I've already said...who the hell cares, how is that legal advice to this poster or any other that asks this question?

If I respond to someone and try and offer them advice and someone later comes on the thread "pissing and moaning" and giving nothing but opinion then I will defend my beliefs just as the poster who started the thread did. As I've seen you say so many times, this is a legal advice forum, if you want advice ask it, if you can give advice give it. If someone can't do anything other than spout their opinions and try and start a debate based on the fact that they have a different perspective then why the hell post in the firts place?

 

[stealth2]

I get to do so because this thread was started by someone who shares my opinion.

Oooooh, so only posts in agreement are permitted? BZZZZZZZT. Wrong. Public board, dissenting opinions are allowed. Since she didn't ask for opinions, yours should be here either. YOU don't get to call the shots, missy.