which "home country" to return to after J1 visa expires?

[cmz1984]

Hi!

I'm having some trouble finding concrete information about the specific requirements of J1 visa that apply to me in my specific situation. I hope somebody here can help me find out more about it.

I am a German citizen, but I've been living and working in the Netherlands for the past 9 years. I'm now planning to move to the US for a temporary research position at a university. I'm most likely going to get a J1 visa for this. To get another J1 or different kind of visa after that, I'm required to return to and be physically present in my "home country" for 2 years. I've read that this does not necessarily mean that I would have to return to the country of which I hold the nationality, instead I could return to the country of my last permanent residency. The puzzling issue in my case, however, is that I am officially a resident of both Germany and the Netherlands. I have been registered in both countries for the last 9 years, something that is both common and perfectly legal. (I have been registered at my address in the Netherlands, where I live, but also at my parental address in Germany, where I occasionally spent time. In each country, the address under which I am registered there counts as my "main address".) Thus, I am wondering which home country I'd have to return to.

I don't see any way to prove that I have been living in one or the other of the two countries. If I could or had to choose, I'd choose the Netherlands. So in principle, since I'm not living and working in Germany, I could un-register there (although that is technically not even possible in some municipalities - I have to check with mine), but this would come with other disadvantages unrelated to the visa issue, so I'd do it only if it absolutely necessary. Does anybody know more on this issue? Thanks very much in advance!

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

It would seem when you apply for your visa, you will be using a passport. The passport should reflect your country.

 

[cmz1984]

passport as sole prove of residency?

It would seem when you apply for your visa, you will be using a passport. The passport should reflect your country.

Thanks, OHRoadwarrior. So you are saying that the passport is used to infer not just nationality but also the place of last permanent residency? But what if my passport was issued in Germany lets say 3 years ago but I moved to the Netherlands 2 years ago? My passport would remain valid then but it would not reflect my last place of residency, even if I completely un-registered in Germany. So can it really be that the passport, and only the passport, is used to indicate the place of residency?

 

[sandyclaus]

Personally, I don't understand how someone can have permanent residency in more than one country.

It's my understanding that in order to establish permanent residency, one must continuously reside in a specific place for a minimum amount of time first. Once you move to another location, that continuous residency is broken until you once again reside in the NEW place for whatever THEIR required minimum time is for establishing permanent residency according to their immigration laws.

It would seem that since you have an actual residence where you LIVE in the Netherlands, that is where you have legitimately established a permanent residency. You no longer can claim a legitimate permanent residency in Germany since you only occasionally visit there, and you do not attend school or stay at that residence for any regular amount of time.

Or am I wrong here?

 

[Proserpina]

Personally, I don't understand how someone can have permanent residency in more than one country.

It's my understanding that in order to establish permanent residency, one must continuously reside in a specific place for a minimum amount of time first. Once you move to another location, that continuous residency is broken until you once again reside in the NEW place for whatever THEIR required minimum time is for establishing permanent residency according to their immigration laws.

It would seem that since you have an actual residence where you LIVE in the Netherlands, that is where you have legitimately established a permanent residency. You no longer can claim a legitimate permanent residency in Germany since you only occasionally visit there, and you do not attend school or stay at that residence for any regular amount of time.

Or am I wrong here?

I'm a UK citizen.

Yet I'm also a legal permanent resident of the US.

I am both.

 

[sandyclaus]

I'm a UK citizen.

Yet I'm also a legal permanent resident of the US.

I am both.

I get that you are a citizen of the UK. I also get that you are NOT a citizen of the US unless and until you decide to apply for citizenship here.

But citizenship does not equal permanent residency, does it? They are two different animals, or so I thought.

If OP was BORN in Germany, then he is a citizen of Germany, regardless of whether or not he resides there on any regular basis. He is, however a permanent resident of the Netherlands, because he actually has a regular residence there where he lives and stays on a long term basis.

 

[cmz1984]

I get that you are a citizen of the UK. I also get that you are NOT a citizen of the US unless and until you decide to apply for citizenship here.

But citizenship does not equal permanent residency, does it? They are two different animals, or so I thought.

If OP was BORN in Germany, then he is a citizen of Germany, regardless of whether or not he resides there on any regular basis. He is, however a permanent resident of the Netherlands, because he actually has a regular residence there where he lives and stays on a long term basis.

Hi sandyclaus,

No, it's not like that. In the EU, it is perfectly possible to have permanent residency in two countries. After all, the borders are open, so there are no immigration issues, and I do in fact have two appartments/rooms to live in and work from.

So does anybody here know more about the laws that apply in this situation with regard to the requirement to return to the home country after the J1 visa expires?

 

[sandyclaus]

Hi sandyclaus,

No, it's not like that. In the EU, it is perfectly possible to have permanent residency in two countries. After all, the borders are open, so there are no immigration issues, and I do in fact have two appartments/rooms to live in and work from.

So does anybody here know more about the laws that apply in this situation with regard to the requirement to return to the home country after the J1 visa expires?

Of which home country did you claim citizenship/residency when you originally requested the J1 visa? That's going to be your "home" country, I believe.

 

[cmz1984]

Of which home country did you claim citizenship/residency when you originally requested the J1 visa? That's going to be your "home" country, I believe.

I didn't apply for the visa yet, still busy getting all the information and the necessary documents together. But I need to get a new passport now, and to do that, I first have to decide whether I should get my passport in Germany or un-register (terminate my residency) there and get my passport from the German ambassy in the Netherlands.

Do you know what kind of proof I have to have of my residency when i claim residency for a particular country when applying for the visa? Do they only look at where your passport was issued, or can I bring the (Dutch written) confirmation from the local city hall here, stating that I'm registered in this city in the Netherlands? Somehow I doubt that this flimsy little piece of paper will suffice.

 

[Rezart]

As per my experience last year, the home country can be any of the two, as long as you will be allowed to legally enter the country at that time.

Best,
Rezart

 

[pmix12]

Personally, I don't understand how someone can have permanent residency in more than one country.

It's my understanding that in order to establish permanent residency, one must continuously reside in a specific place for a minimum amount of time first. Once you move to another location, that continuous residency is broken until you once again reside in the NEW place for whatever THEIR required minimum time is for establishing permanent residency according to their immigration laws.

It would seem that since you have an actual residence where you LIVE in the Netherlands, that is where you have legitimately established a permanent residency. You no longer can claim a legitimate permanent residency in Germany since you only occasionally visit there, and you do not attend school or stay at that residence for any regular amount of time.

Or am I wrong here?

You may not be wrong semantically, but under the EU rules, a citizen of any member country can take residence and work in any other. Consider EU as the equivalent of US, but instead each state issues its own version of passport for the time being. So, yes you can be a citizen of one country, have a residence over there (so legally you are a resident of that country) while working in another country and have another residence where you work. I am pretty much on the same boat as the original poster. I carry two passports and have residences (places I actually own/rent and stay in) in both countries, one of them being US. As far as US is concerned I am US citizen, but when I go back to where I was born, I am the citizen and the resident of that country as well.

To the original poster: US actually may not care as long as you are out of the country after your J1 or other type visa expires. It is best if you return to the country which you carry the passport of, i.e., Germany, for a day or two, get the stamp on your passport for future trips to US (for technicality if nothing else, to avoid US' buerocratic red-tape later) and then move on to Netherlannds if you wish to do so. If your fly into Frankfurt airport, Amsterdam is only 3 maybe 4 hours of driving away anyway. US ICE is only interested in if you are overstaying your visa here in the US and your citizenship is really from the country whose passport you are carrying. Other than that, it is totally up to you, where you live or work. This is my take on your situation.

 

[FlyingRon]

The US doesn't care as long as you get out of the US. We had some Indian guys waiting out their time in Canada and a UK citizen hanging out in Bermuda waiting for their visa eligibiltiy.