Using purchased wifi time in parking lot Loitering/trespassing?

[rdrake]

Using purchased wifi time at the mall Loitering/trespassing?

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? California

Hello all I am just wondering is there a limit to how long a person can sit in their car surfing the internet if they purchased WIFI time from one of the stores.. i.e. Starbucks etc?

My class schedule has a few big gaps and I was surfing the internet in my car and I was approached by security.

Any thoughts on this? I buy tons of stuff from this mall also, i.e. I eat there 1 or twice a day

Turns out I guess someone saw me on a regular basis in my car with my computer.. and complained about a safety issue?

Is there a time limit after I make a purchase that I have to leave to not be considered loitering or tresspassing? Does the WIFI time that I purchas from Starbucks count as purchasing something?

Any thoughts on this?

 

[InsaneJane]

I can't recite law for you, but common sense has to prevail that if you bought WIF time from them and they transmit out in the parking lot for your coveince, then you have a contract.....
Of course if you are causing a problem...

 

[HomeGuru]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? California

Hello all I am just wondering is there a limit to how long a person can sit in their car surfing the internet if they purchased WIFI time from one of the stores.. i.e. Starbucks etc?

My class schedule has a few big gaps and I was surfing the internet in my car and I was approached by security.

Any thoughts on this? I buy tons of stuff from this mall also, i.e. I eat there 1 or twice a day

Turns out I guess someone saw me on a regular basis in my car with my computer.. and complained about a safety issue?

Is there a time limit after I make a purchase that I have to leave to not be considered loitering or tresspassing? Does the WIFI time that I purchas from Starbucks count as purchasing something?

Any thoughts on this?

**A: what is the complete story?

 

[You Are Guilty]

If you bought it from Starbucks, you can use it in Starbucks. Starbucks can still kick you out at any time they want, but they would have to issue you a refund for any unused time if they did so. But since Starbucks does not own or operate the mall (i.e. the parking lot), the Mall gets to decide who stays and who goes from that area.

Find another hill to die on, this one's a loser.

 

[CdwJava]

Hello all I am just wondering is there a limit to how long a person can sit in their car surfing the internet if they purchased WIFI time from one of the stores.. i.e. Starbucks etc?

My class schedule has a few big gaps and I was surfing the internet in my car and I was approached by security.

Any thoughts on this? I buy tons of stuff from this mall also, i.e. I eat there 1 or twice a day

Turns out I guess someone saw me on a regular basis in my car with my computer.. and complained about a safety issue?

Is there a time limit after I make a purchase that I have to leave to not be considered loitering or tresspassing? Does the WIFI time that I purchas from Starbucks count as purchasing something?

Any thoughts on this?

Were you charged with a crime? If not, then just remember to do your web surfing AT Starbucks during business hours and not in the parking lot of the mall/shopping center after hours.

- Carl

 

[rdrake]

I wasn't causing any problems whatsoever! I was just sitting in my car with my computer.. eating my take out food/coffee... its just convenient because I can get stuff done and there are many restaurants although I park in a one particular shady spot every day that picks up the signal the best. Plus I have a docking/powerstation in my car, so I prefer to be in my car rather then carrying my comptuter around. So of course being that I spend quite a bit on food everyday at the various restaurants as well as the internet time... it never even crossed my mind that I was doing anything wrong.. But after the same employees began to see me in that one space regularly.. I was then approached by a guard who said that there were safety complaints, i.e. people thought it was 'suspicious'

Its just weird because I would be sitting there and I'd see a chef or a waiter or waitress or dishwasher or something getting off work, and as they drove by my car, they would like stare into my car... like letting me know that they saw me or something. I didnt think anything of it until then I was approached by the guard. (and this is during regular business hours)

 

[CdwJava]

I wasn't causing any problems whatsoever! I was just sitting in my car with my computer.. eating my take out food/coffee...

You don't HAVE to be causing a problem. Trespassing or loitering does not usually require you to be causing a problem. Besides, you weren't arrested, were you? If not, then there is nothing much to argue about anyway.

I was then approached by a guard who said that there were safety complaints, i.e. people thought it was 'suspicious'

Well, as the agent of the owner of the property, the guard has the right to ask you to leave. If you fail to leave, you might be subject to arrest.
- Carl

 

[rdrake]

Well, as the agent of the owner of the property, the guard has the right to ask you to leave. If you fail to leave, you might be subject to arrest.
- Carl

So being that I eat there daily, how exactly does this work on a day to day basis. Can they prohibit me from eating at the mall? Or would they need a court order for that. The security guard never actually asked me to leave, but if he did one day.. (say for example for sake of argument, I purchased lunch, took it to my car, logged on, ate etc, and after a few hours, the guard came and said that I was sitting in my car for too long and had to go..), would that mean that I just had to leave or be subject to arrest, or can they prohibit me from coming back? Wouldn't they need a court order for that? As long as I continue to make purchases aren't I welcome to continue to shop there? Say they called the police one day.. wouldn't my proof of purchase within a reasonable timeframe protect me from being cited for trespassing?

 

[justalayman]

Well I appreciate the response I would just like to draw the line between my rights and someone just being a pain in the a**.

you do not have any rights not given by the controllers of the mall. Yo umay not be a PITA but they are concerned about security and you may simply be seen as susupicious and as such, they take corrective action.

So your telling me that I can randomly point my finger at someone and say he's suspicious and I can interfere in that person's life even if that person is not doing anything?

Randomly? You admit you are loitering. In todays world, that garnishes special attention.

Staying on track, I understand your point that if the property manager asks you to leave you have to leave.. I would like to get REAL clear on that

. It's real clear. If the owner of controlling person of a property tells you to leave, you got 2 choices; leave or face the consequences, which ae usually going to be the police.

I don't see why I should have to leave.

because those in power told you to.

I am not illegally parked,

makes no difference. Once they tell you to leave, and you don't, you are now committing a crime.

I purchase hundred's of dollars worth of meals each week, I also purchase the internet time which they are broadcasting out into the lot. I am simply getting work done in my car while I eat

. Personally, I understand your situation but apparently the mall guards do not want to deal with this so they tell you to leave. Their rights overrule your rights in this case, especially since you don;t have any rights in this case.

I would like to know my rights in court if it comes to it, if anyone cares to keep responding

.None.

I can highlight hundeds of dollars of purchases on my bank statement from this mall, and I am not aware of a law that tells a person how long they can take to eat their meal in their car.

A mall is private property and the owner/agent can control their property as they desire.

I understand that if a person is not buying something, they should be on their way. But they are broadcasting and selling internet into the parking lot, now they are telling me I can't use it?

No but the mall security is telling you you cannot sit in your car for extended periods of time.

Any opinions on this are welcome.

You are in the wrong. You will lose in court if it comes to that. Don;t be stupid and make a big scene because you will lose.

I would suggest speaking with the mall offices. Explain to them what you have said here and see if they would allow you to continue your rest as you do. If they know who you are (as in them asking and copying ID), they may allow such but there is no legal requirement for them to do so.

 

[justalayman]

rdrake;2118042]So being that I eat there daily, how exactly does this work on a day to day basis. Can they prohibit me from eating at the mall?

yes, if they want.

Or would they need a court order for that.

No. It's privae property and they can control as desired.

The security guard never actually asked me to leave, but if he did one day.. (say for example for sake of argument, I purchased lunch, took it to my car, logged on, ate etc, and after a few hours, the guard came and said that I was sitting in my car for too long and had to go..), would that mean that I just had to leave or be subject to arrest, or can they prohibit me from coming back?

If you left, that's it. If you stay or return obviously against their wishes, you can be arrested.

Wouldn't they need a court order for that?

Would you need a court order to tell somebody to get off your property at home?

As long as I continue to make purchases aren't I welcome to continue to shop there?

but your aren't shopping. You are hanging out in the parking lot. Very different actions.

Say they called the police one day.. wouldn't my proof of purchase within a reasonable timeframe protect me from being cited for trespassing

Nope. Once they ask you to leave, you are no longer a guest. You are now a trespasser and subject to arrest or citation.

 

[rdrake]

OOOOOKKKK... so they are going to sell me a 2 hour block of WIFI time, which CAN ONLY BE USED right there in that area.. but then if I try to use it I am going to be called a loiterer? Am I not mistaken that once I purchase that 2 hour block of WIFI time, I am not a loiterer for that 2 hours?


Hey if they don't want people using their laptops around the mall, then they shouldn't be selling and broadcasting the wifi service.

Im not disagreeing with Layman in a traditional sense, but the world is different then it was 50 years ago, and if the older generation always had their way, we'd all still be living in caves.

The real fact is that there are no laws that address this situation. They are selling a service, and if people arent allowed to use it, well they shouldnt' be allowed to sell it. Your saying that I've admitted to loitering, and that there is no question as to whether I'm loitering, and that is where you have overstepped. Look at it in terms of a drive in theater.

How is a drive in movie theatre any different from internet wifi that is being broadcasted out over the mall? A person purchased their pass, and they are allowed to park within the theatre for as long as they have purchased their pass. If I purchase a 2 hour block of internet access to get my homework done without having to drive home before my next class, how is this any different from purchasing a ticket for the drive in theatre?

Now before you say "its not a drive in theatre.. its a shopping mall".. Well then why are they selling wifi time at the shopping mall? You cant use it anywhere else, EXCEPT within the immediate area. Its not like the wifi time is meant to be purchased and then used when you got home. The wifi time that you purchase can ONLY BE used at the mall. Total contradiction here. I'd be interested in hearing what all the neo ****'s have to say about THAT. Dont get me wrong... if it actually WAS a 'security concern' I could see it being an issue. But since when is someone using a laptop a security concern? It was only MADE an issue by some pesky migrant dishwasher who was trying to feel like an insider. No one else even noticed or cared.

 

[You Are Guilty]

First you said "the WIFI time that I purchas from Starbucks...", and now you say "why are they selling wifi time at the shopping mall? ... The wifi time that you purchase can ONLY BE used at the mall."

So which is it? Did you buy it from the mall or Starbucks? (In case you hadn't noticed, those are two different entities). It doesn't change the correct answer of course, just your potential responses.

Incidentally, there are numerous laws exactly about this situation, some of which you've already been told about. Your (willful?) ignorance about them doesn't mean they do not exist.

 

[rdrake]

What law is that? I have purchased a 2 hour block of WIFI access from a store at the mall. I see your saying that there is some disparity between starbucks (or whoever) and the property itself. Well isnt that something that mall security should take up with the store that is selling the service? I don't really see how they can sell me a service and then not allow me to use it.

Lets say for sake of argument, I purchase a 2 hour block of WIFI time for 10 bucks. Your telling me that I can be cited for loitering after 90 minutes of sitting outside starbucks and using my computer? What if there were no open tables? So the fact that I am using the access I purchased in my car instead of sitting outside starbucks makes it loitering?

The fact is that its not even starbucks. AT&T sells the WIFI through Starbucks, Barnes and Nobles and some others. I believe the signal is coming from Barnes and Nobles. It doesnt matter, its one of the stores here. There is obviously some disparity here between the property manager and the entity selling the WIFI access. I really don't see what this has to do with me, or where anyone gets off approaching me for a product/service that I just purchased from one of the stores no less.

 

[Peligroso27]

So being that I eat there daily, how exactly does this work on a day to day basis. Can they prohibit me from eating at the mall? Or would they need a court order for that. The security guard never actually asked me to leave, but if he did one day.. (say for example for sake of argument, I purchased lunch, took it to my car, logged on, ate etc, and after a few hours, the guard came and said that I was sitting in my car for too long and had to go..), would that mean that I just had to leave or be subject to arrest, or can they prohibit me from coming back? Wouldn't they need a court order for that? As long as I continue to make purchases aren't I welcome to continue to shop there? Say they called the police one day.. wouldn't my proof of purchase within a reasonable timeframe protect me from being cited for trespassing?

You probably just look suspicious to the guard. You may notice that there is nobody else out in their cars using the internet. There are plenty of other places that you could eat and use the internet. The mall has a duty to provide a safe environment for the other patrons. You have made the workers there suspicious of your anti-social behavior. If the management of the property no longer wishes for you to sit outside in your car then you may not. I am sure they would be more than happy to allow you to use the internet inside like everyone else.

 

[rdrake]

Aye.. I see your saying that if Starbucks sells the service, you have to use it in Starbucks. The fact is that you don't even go INTO starbucks. You turn on your laptop.. and ATT network shows up as an available network. You then select that, enter your debit information , and you purchase a block of time. From what I understand AT-T contracts the service out from certain places... i.e. Starbucks, Barnes and Nobles. I am not even sure which place the signal is coming from. But there are people all over the place using laptops, on restaurant patios, in their cars, everywhere. It is not a full mall, more like a shopping center.