Custodial parent interfering with visitation

[melanie679]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CA

My husband was just granted a modified custody/visitation schedule this past July. He was awarded joint legal custody with residential visits in our state of PA. The order states that he is to have a visitation "For the Thanksgiving break during odd-numbered years". He contacted the school (that his son is enrolled in this year) and got the schools calander which details the one week holiday break. He emailed the childs mother on Sunday to tell her that he intended to purchase his plane tickets to fly to CA and also the tickets for he and his son to travel together to PA and back again (3 round trip tickets all together). She never responded to the email but told him in a phone conversation on Monday that she read the email and wanted to check the child's school calander to make sure the dates were correct. Knowing that the dates were correct, he went ahead and purchased the tickets.
Last night (after she was told that the tickets were bought and paid for) she told him that they were possibly buying a house in another school district and that the Thanksgiving break will not be the same as the one he is currently enrolled and that the trip "Might not work out." because the new school only has a 3 day holiday break (as opposed to the full week)
My question is this... having joint legal custody, can my husband decide that his child can miss two days of school if, in fact, he is moved to another school before the Thanksgiving holiday that has a different holiday schedule?
Can she deny him the first part of his visit if he will be in school those days? What about the money we already spent on non refundable plane tickets?
Can she refuse to allow him to leave with the child if he is scheduled to be in school those days?
The order also states that "Neither parent shall move the residence of the child out of the San Diego County without giving the other parent a 45-day advance written notice and obtaining the other parent's written permission prior to the move or an order of the Court granting the move."

Thank you in advance.What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?

 

[LdiJ]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CA

My husband was just granted a modified custody/visitation schedule this past July. He was awarded joint legal custody with residential visits in our state of PA. The order states that he is to have a visitation "For the Thanksgiving break during odd-numbered years". He contacted the school (that his son is enrolled in this year) and got the schools calander which details the one week holiday break. He emailed the childs mother on Sunday to tell her that he intended to purchase his plane tickets to fly to CA and also the tickets for he and his son to travel together to PA and back again (3 round trip tickets all together). She never responded to the email but told him in a phone conversation on Monday that she read the email and wanted to check the child's school calander to make sure the dates were correct. Knowing that the dates were correct, he went ahead and purchased the tickets.
Last night (after she was told that the tickets were bought and paid for) she told him that they were possibly buying a house in another school district and that the Thanksgiving break will not be the same as the one he is currently enrolled and that the trip "Might not work out." because the new school only has a 3 day holiday break (as opposed to the full week)
My question is this... having joint legal custody, can my husband decide that his child can miss two days of school if, in fact, he is moved to another school before the Thanksgiving holiday that has a different holiday schedule?
Can she deny him the first part of his visit if he will be in school those days? What about the money we already spent on non refundable plane tickets?
Can she refuse to allow him to leave with the child if he is scheduled to be in school those days?
The order also states that "Neither parent shall move the residence of the child out of the San Diego County without giving the other parent a 45-day advance written notice and obtaining the other parent's written permission prior to the move or an order of the Court granting the move."

Thank you in advance.What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?

You might as well forget about the part of the order that states that written permission is needed to move out of San Diego County. Once dad moved clear across the country he can no longer enforce that provision.

He is entitled to visitation for the school break. If the child changes schools and the break changes, that's problematic. Dad should have waited until he heard back from mom before buying the tickets.

Some schools are easy going about children missing school around a holiday, some are not easy going at all about that. Some judges might say that its ok for a child to miss some school...others might not.

I would suggest that your husband insist on getting the name of the potential new school so that he can verify the dates and the school's policy.

 

[melanie679]

He was actually transferred across the country due to his military employment and it was years before this court hearing that resulted in the order~ including the part about not moving the child without his permission. The court hearing was just a little over a month ago. Why would they put that in there if he couldn't enforce it?
Also, she witheld the information about a possible school change. She knew he was planning on buying the tickets and she only said that she had to "check his school schedule" not mentioning ANYTHING about the possibility of him being transferred to another school.
He will try and get the information about the possible new school but she has already told him "good luck finding that out"
Hopefully they don't find a house to buy and don't move at all.
Thanks again.

 

[CJane]

The language was included because it's fairly standard. Doesn't make it enforcable. Why on Earth would Mom need permission to move ANYWHERE when Dad chooses to live in PA? It's a no-brainer.

As far as the school issue, the reason it's problematic is that Dad is entitled to the Thanksgiving break as it exists at the time of the break. So, if it changes for any reason - changed school, changed school calendar, whatever - then Dad only gets what the NEW time frame is. A LOT of schools only allow the Wed/Thurs/Fri.

Dad should have waited to buy his tickets once Mom said that she needed to check into some stuff. He didn't, hopefully it works out for him. But Mom isn't responsible for it NOT working out for him due to things she can't control like the school schedule.

 

[LdiJ]

He was actually transferred across the country due to his military employment and it was years before this court hearing that resulted in the order~ including the part about not moving the child without his permission. The court hearing was just a little over a month ago. Why would they put that in there if he couldn't enforce it?
Also, she witheld the information about a possible school change. She knew he was planning on buying the tickets and she only said that she had to "check his school schedule" not mentioning ANYTHING about the possibility of him being transferred to another school.
He will try and get the information about the possible new school but she has already told him "good luck finding that out"
Hopefully they don't find a house to buy and don't move at all.
Thanks again.

That was probably a canned paragraph that goes into all court orders. There is still no way that he can enforce it. A judge cannot force her to live in San Diego County with the kids if he is living in PA...and there is no where in the continental US that she could move that would be farther away from where he is living now. Any place that she moved would be closer to him than they are now.

 

[melanie679]

"Why on Earth would Mom need permission to move ANYWHERE when Dad chooses to live in PA? It's a no-brainer."

Again... he did not "choose" to move across the country. His military responsibilities transfer him all over the place. The only reason I mentioned that part is because she withheld the information about a possible move and school change when she KNEW that he was planning on buying the plane tickets. He doesn't feel he owes her his permission for them to move, but she should have told him that it was a possibility when she has known for a month now that he was planning on bringing his son to PA for a visit. He said that he wanted to buy them that day because the prices were rising... she kept delaying him with the only explaination that she "needed to check his school schedule". Obviously since he had no idea that it could have been to a different school, he checked the schedule of the school the child is already enrolled in.

 

[profmum]

"Why on Earth would Mom need permission to move ANYWHERE when Dad chooses to live in PA? It's a no-brainer."

Again... he did not "choose" to move across the country. His military responsibilities transfer him all over the place.

But he "chose" to join the military.. we have a voluntary military remember?

If Dad has joint legal custody, Mum is then required to consult with him about a school change (unless Mum has sole custody for education), so Mum may not be allowed to change schools (which may be the result of her move) without Dad's consent. That is the approach I would take if I were Dad.
I was a similar situation, I moved, but ONLY after Dad and I AGREED to the school. Had I moved regardless, Dad would still have to consent to the school

 

[melanie679]

"But he "chose" to join the military.. we have a voluntary military remember?"

He has been in the military since prior to even meeting his son's mother. I don't think that his choosing to KEEP his career should be held against him.

But regardless of any of that... what about the mother's "choice" to withhold the information about a possible school change KNOWING he wanted to buy the plane tickets that day?

I guess we will just keep our fingers crossed that they stay put... until after Thanksgiving at least.

 

[profmum]

"Why on Earth would Mom need permission to move ANYWHERE when Dad chooses to live in PA? It's a no-brainer."

Again... he did not "choose" to move across the country. His military responsibilities transfer him all over the place.

But he "chose" to join the military.. we have a voluntary military remember?

If Dad has joint legal custody, Mum is then required to consult with him about a school change (unless Mum has sole decision making for education), so Mum may not be allowed to change schools (which may be the result of her move) without Dad's consent. That is the approach I would take if I were Dad. I was in a similar situation, I moved, but ONLY after Dad and I AGREED to the school. Had I moved regardless, Dad would still have to consent to the school

 

[LdiJ]

"Why on Earth would Mom need permission to move ANYWHERE when Dad chooses to live in PA? It's a no-brainer."

Again... he did not "choose" to move across the country. His military responsibilities transfer him all over the place.

But he "chose" to join the military.. we have a voluntary military remember?

If Dad has joint legal custody, Mum is then required to consult with him about a school change (unless Mum has sole custody for education), so Mum may not be allowed to change schools (which may be the result of her move) without Dad's consent. That is the approach I would take if I were Dad.
I was a similar situation, I moved, but ONLY after Dad and I AGREED to the school. Had I moved regardless, Dad would still have to consent to the school

I am honestly going to disagree with you on this one. The child goes to school in the school district where the custodial parent resides. That is not something that requires the agreement of the other parent, particularly when the other parent resides on the other side of the country. Mom also may not have the option (by the rules of the school system) to leave the child enrolled in the current school.

 

[profmum]

"But he "chose" to join the military.. we have a voluntary military remember?"

He has been in the military since prior to even meeting his son's mother. I don't think that his choosing to KEEP his career should be held against him. I

It is not about his career choice being held against him..but the impact of his career choice on where he lives and what that does to a parenting plan. He can't expect the moon if his career choices dont allow for it.

But regardless of any of that... what about the mother's "choice" to withhold the information about a possible school change KNOWING he wanted to buy the plane tickets that day?

That is my point exactly, IF dad has joint legal decision making, then Dad has to be consent to a school change, this is point Dad needs to focus on and not get mirred in the details of the tickets he alreadly purchased. Is the new school as good as the old school academically etc etc.

I guess we will just keep our fingers crossed that they stay put... until after Thanksgiving at least.

Once again Dad is focusing on the minutae here, does he not care what school his child may end up going to or is his only focus what plane ticket to buy???

 

[profmum]

I am honestly going to disagree with you on this one. The child goes to school in the school district where the custodial parent resides. That is not something that requires the agreement of the other parent, particularly when the other parent resides on the other side of the country. Mom also may not have the option (by the rules of the school system) to leave the child enrolled in the current school.

I disagree.. if there is joint legal custody with regard to education, Dad has to agree to the school change. What if the new school is a poorly performing school etc are you saying Dad has NO LEGAL recourse in such a situation because of his status as an out of state NCP?

 

[LdiJ]

I disagree.. if there is joint legal custody with regard to education, Dad has to agree to the school change. What if the new school is a poorly performing school etc are you saying Dad has NO LEGAL recourse in such a situation because of his status as an out of state NCP?

Ok...let me explain what I am saying.

The child is in public school. The rules concerning where the child may attend school are determined by the school system. Some school systems, in some states, allow for some choice. Other school systems in the same state or other states do not allow for some choice.

Therefore, in general, the child goes to school in the assigned school for his her address, within the school district where the custodial parent lives.

If dad is a local ncp, then there is more choice and more options, because most school districts do now allow the child to go to school in either mom's district or dad's district. However, if dad is out of state, those additional options are not available.

If mom moves outside of the child's current school district, mom won't be able to keep the child in that same school. If mom is still within the district, but the district doesn't allow choice, then mom won't be able to keep the child in the same school.

Your school district obviously has a lot of flexibility. Others do not. So the ncp only has as much say as the school district rules allow him to have say.

In my school district, unless there are very exceptional circumstances, there are only two choices, the assigned year round school for my address, or the assigned traditional calendar school for my address. If I moved 5 miles in three directions I am out of my district and my child cannot attend school in my district any longer. If I move two miles in the last direction, I am out of county and my child cannot attend school in my district any longer.

 

[Zigner]

SD County is fairly large and has several different school districts. Does our OP *KNOW* that the child's mother is moving out of SD County? (Not that it matters of course...but it might help our OP get off her kick about that portion of the move)

ETA: From http://www.sdcoe.k12.ca.us/district.asp

Alpine Union
Bonsall Union
Borrego Springs Unified
Cajon Valley Union
Cardiff Elementary
Carlsbad Unified
Chula Vista Elementary
Coronado Unified
Dehesa
Del Mar Union
Encinitas Union
Escondido Union
Escondido Union High
Fallbrook Union Elementary Fallbrook Union High
Grossmont Union High
Jamul-Dulzura Union
Julian Union
Julian Union High
La Mesa-Spring Valley
Lakeside Union
Lemon Grove
Mountain Empire Unified
National
Oceanside Unified
Poway Unified
Ramona Unified
Rancho Santa Fe San Diego Unified
San Dieguito Union High
San Marcos Unified
San Pasqual Union
San Ysidro
Santee
Solana Beach
South Bay Union
Spencer Valley
Sweetwater Union High
Vallecitos
Valley Center-Pauma Unified
Vista Unified
Warner Unified

 

[profmum]

Ok...let me explain what I am saying.

The child is in public school. The rules concerning where the child may attend school are determined by the school system. Some school systems, in some states, allow for some choice. Other school systems in the same state or other states do not allow for some choice.

Therefore, in general, the child goes to school in the assigned school for his her address, within the school district where the custodial parent lives.

If dad is a local ncp, then there is more choice and more options, because most school districts do now allow the child to go to school in either mom's district or dad's district. However, if dad is out of state, those additional options are not available.

If mom moves outside of the child's current school district, mom won't be able to keep the child in that same school. If mom is still within the district, but the district doesn't allow choice, then mom won't be able to keep the child in the same school.

Your school district obviously has a lot of flexibility. Others do not. So the ncp only has as much say as the school district rules allow him to have say.

In my school district, unless there are very exceptional circumstances, there are only two choices, the assigned year round school for my address, or the assigned traditional calendar school for my address. If I moved 5 miles in three directions I am out of my district and my child cannot attend school in my district any longer. If I move two miles in the last direction, I am out of county and my child cannot attend school in my district any longer.

LD i understand what you are saying and my school district is exactly the same way, which is I moved so that DD can attend the school we wanted as it was her home school now based on my home address. So presumably (and I dont know anymore that Dad here really cares about which school the child is in!), Dad and Mum were in agreement about the child's existing school. Now Mum is moving and yes the child will have to go to Mum's "home" school, but that then represents a change in school that Dad still has to approve regardless of the reason, i.e., Mum's moving, Mum wants a different school etc etc.
It is most likely going to be a no brainer for the courts to allow Mum to move and the child to go to a new school, BUT since Mum is being very evasive about her move and the new school, Dad has an oppurtunity here to exert his legal rights which will be considered by the courts. There is no reason to assume that the courts will automatically grant Mum the move, despite Dad being a long distance NCP if Dad's objection to the new school are credible enough.
Having said all this, this particular Dad seems to be only focused on plane tickets, so it may all be a moot point