Are negotiations a mistake?

[ProSeDadinMD]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? See my name

I filed just before turkey day for the following:

Birthdays, including mine, The Ex's, and alternating Little Miss Pro Se's:
"Liberal" telephone contact, meaning a short call on weeknights during the school year(5 min would do), Because I don't get this now.
E-mail only contact for non-emergency matters, because it will keep us both honest on what was, or was not, agreed upon.
Co-Parenting class, because while I may believe that The Ex sucks at it worse than me, we can both learn and improve in this.

We went the other day to the Parent/Teacher conference, where we both seemed to put on the happy face, and I got approached on the following afterwards, with no knowledge of me filing:
"Let's file to alter the following"(not exact wording, but close enough):
Birthdays: The Ex's, mine, and L'il Sis's(0((zero) mention of LMPS's)
The week before school starts(which seems to amount to an extra week of vacation for them in the summer the way she has ir phrased to me)
and, alternating T-day and X-mas yearly(something I offered before we went to court the LAST time)

I'm ok on the birthdays(L'il Sis's works out to 3 days over the next 8 years)
The Ex doesn't want "liberal phone contact", because it's "invasive"
The Ex doesn't want want E-mail only contact, although my reasoning is that it keeps us both honest.
The Ex has not mentioned the co-parenting classes one way or the other...

Where do I go from here???

 

[Proserpina]

Be more specific with the phone contact thing - instead of "liberal" (which is ambiguous and leaves far too much room for individual interpretation and thus disagreement), suggest something more iron-clad.

So, regarding what Ex doesn't want....what does she suggest?

 

[profmum]

Since you have filed already, I would (obviously) get a signed agreement from Mum about the bdays and get that ratified by the courts if she is willing to agree to it.. eliminates one less decision from the courts which is always uncertain.

On the phone contact, others may disagree on having daily/frequent phone contact on the other parent's time, but I am a firm believer in the benefits of that. DD gets to talk to the parent she is not with EVERY DAY at 6 pm and it has worked great for 3 years and never been invasive to either parent. So I would ask the courts to grant some phone contact and would be surprised if that was not orderered.

I dont know how the courts will view the email contact only for non emergency situations (Xfiles and I do exactly and there is a paper trail for everything which as you say" keeps us honest). Worth a shot though.

Coparenting class.. Personally I would not push or include this issue.. if memory serves right you folks have been split up for several years now right? since LMPS was an infant..? if that is the case, nothing much is going to come out of a co-parenting class..

 

[Proserpina]

Since you have filed already, I would (obviously) get a signed agreement from Mum about the bdays and get that ratified by the courts if she is willing to agree to it.. eliminates one less decision from the courts which is always uncertain.

On the phone contact, others may disagree on having daily/frequent phone contact on the other parent's time, but I am a firm believer in the benefits of that. DD gets to talk to the parent she is not with EVERY DAY at 6 pm and it has worked great for 3 years and never been invasive to either parent. So I would ask the courts to grant some phone contact and would be surprised if that was not orderered.

I dont know how the courts will view the email contact only for non emergency situations (Xfiles and I do exactly and there is a paper trail for everything which as you say" keeps us honest). Worth a shot though.

Coparenting class.. Personally I would not push or include this issue.. if memory serves right you folks have been split up for several years now right? since LMPS was an infant..? if that is the case, nothing much is going to come out of a co-parenting class..

The bolded I disagree with - sometimes after a few years much of the bitterness has dissipated and two parents who were previously unable to agree can manage to come together and work towards a common goal....even at this stage I think co-parenting classes may be of benefit.

 

[ProSeDadinMD]

Be more specific with the phone contact thing - instead of "liberal" (which is ambiguous and leaves far too much room for individual interpretation and thus disagreement), suggest something more iron-clad.

So, regarding what Ex doesn't want....what does she suggest?

I WAS more specific, esentially spelling it out in the motion.

She hasn't suggested anything yet, really, other than to imply that she' showing this to a lawyer.

Sadly, in a pang of whatever(weakness??), I showed her the stuff I filed. We are/were/maybe are working on "good faith""... Dang, my head hurts....

 

[CJane]

Our order says "Each parent shall have frequent telephone access to the children. No less than one phone call each day shall be allowed/facilitated." It goes on to say (in all caps, so I think the GAL was pretty adamant about it) that the phone calls shall not be monitored, recorded, listened in on or otherwise interfered with in any way, ever.

I think it's fair to alternate Xmas and TGiving if that's close to what you've been doing. If LMPS has spend EVERY Christmas with her mom, it's extremely possible that a judge would order that continuing that tradition is in her best interests. I know, I know, and I'm sorry. But MY kids will likely never spend a Christmas morning with their father because I have EVERY Christmas. He has EVERY New Years.

I also think it's fair to alternate LMPS's bday.

Your birthday should be yours.

Ex's bday should be hers.

LilSis's bday should NOT work its way into the order. Just. Not.

 

[profmum]

What a waste of money to "show" this to a lawyer..

 

[LdiJ]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? See my name

I filed just before turkey day for the following:

Birthdays, including mine, The Ex's, and alternating Little Miss Pro Se's:
"Liberal" telephone contact, meaning a short call on weeknights during the school year(5 min would do), Because I don't get this now.
E-mail only contact for non-emergency matters, because it will keep us both honest on what was, or was not, agreed upon.
Co-Parenting class, because while I may believe that The Ex sucks at it worse than me, we can both learn and improve in this.

We went the other day to the Parent/Teacher conference, where we both seemed to put on the happy face, and I got approached on the following afterwards, with no knowledge of me filing:
"Let's file to alter the following"(not exact wording, but close enough):
Birthdays: The Ex's, mine, and L'il Sis's(0((zero) mention of LMPS's)
The week before school starts(which seems to amount to an extra week of vacation for them in the summer the way she has ir phrased to me)
and, alternating T-day and X-mas yearly(something I offered before we went to court the LAST time)

I'm ok on the birthdays(L'il Sis's works out to 3 days over the next 8 years)
The Ex doesn't want "liberal phone contact", because it's "invasive"
The Ex doesn't want want E-mail only contact, although my reasoning is that it keeps us both honest.
The Ex has not mentioned the co-parenting classes one way or the other...

Where do I go from here???

You are likely to get sent to mediation...or you could ask to be sent to mediation. That, in my opinion, would be the best place to try to negotiate. You can certainly try some negotiation ahead of time, but its kind of like email keeping you honest, having a mediator there keeps you honest as well.

 

[ProSeDadinMD]

Our order says "Each parent shall have frequent telephone access to the children. No less than one phone call each day shall be allowed/facilitated." It goes on to say (in all caps, so I think the GAL was pretty adamant about it) that the phone calls shall not be monitored, recorded, listened in on or otherwise interfered with in any way, ever.

I think it's fair to alternate Xmas and TGiving if that's close to what you've been doing. If LMPS has spend EVERY Christmas with her mom, it's extremely possible that a judge would order that continuing that tradition is in her best interests. I know, I know, and I'm sorry. But MY kids will likely never spend a Christmas morning with their father because I have EVERY Christmas. He has EVERY New Years.

I also think it's fair to alternate LMPS's bday.

Your birthday should be yours.

Ex's bday should be hers.

LilSis's bday should NOT work its way into the order. Just. Not.

We split both Xmas and T-day. The only “holiday” that we alternate is Spring Break.

I agree on the alternating LMPS’s birthday, but I don’t think that The Ex likes the idea at all. Go figure.

L’il Sis’s birthday is something that The Ex is adamant about, and could be a deal breaker for her. From my perspective, it’s really only 3 days over the next 8 years.

On the other hand, from what I’ve heard from her so far, both the phone calls and the email communication are deal breakers as well, so we may already be at an impasse.

What a waste of money to "show" this to a lawyer..

I agree completely. She also would want any agreement we reach, and I write up, reviewed by said lawyer “for wording”.

You are likely to get sent to mediation...or you could ask to be sent to mediation. That, in my opinion, would be the best place to try to negotiate. You can certainly try some negotiation ahead of time, but its kind of like email keeping you honest, having a mediator there keeps you honest as well.

We’ve NEVER been to mediation. I’d be fine with it, but I know where my limits are. I don’t think The Ex does.

I really don’t think that anything that I have filed for is particularly unreasonable. The Ex seems to think, or is at least acting like she thinks, that her lawyer would trounce me over this.

 

[ecmst12]

You know, rolling your eyes every time you mention your ex really doesn't make it look like you have a good attitude. The rest of the post seems to indicate you are trying, so why don't you cut that out?

 

[LdiJ]

We split both Xmas and T-day. The only “holiday” that we alternate is Spring Break.

I agree on the alternating LMPS’s birthday, but I don’t think that The Ex likes the idea at all. Go figure.

L’il Sis’s birthday is something that The Ex is adamant about, and could be a deal breaker for her. From my perspective, it’s really only 3 days over the next 8 years.

On the other hand, from what I’ve heard from her so far, both the phone calls and the email communication are deal breakers as well, so we may already be at an impasse.


I agree completely. She also would want any agreement we reach, and I write up, reviewed by said lawyer “for wording”.

We’ve NEVER been to mediation. I’d be fine with it, but I know where my limits are. I don’t think The Ex does.

I really don’t think that anything that I have filed for is particularly unreasonable. The Ex seems to think, or is at least acting like she thinks, that her lawyer would trounce me over this.

The only thing that might be iffy is the daily phone calls. I don't see many orders where a parent is allowed daily calls, because that is somewhat intrusive. That means that the other parent has to be available at a given time, every day that the child is with them, and it can definitely be intrusive to have to schedule your life around a daily phone call.

Now, if you wanted to provide LMPS with a cell phone, so that you and she can speak to each other, as you like, wherever she happens to be, that might be a more workable arrangment.

 

[CJane]

The only thing that might be iffy is the daily phone calls. I don't see many orders where a parent is allowed daily calls, because that is somewhat intrusive. That means that the other parent has to be available at a given time, every day that the child is with them, and it can definitely be intrusive to have to schedule your life around a daily phone call.

Now, if you wanted to provide LMPS with a cell phone, so that you and she can speak to each other, as you like, wherever she happens to be, that might be a more workable arrangment.

I don't think it's that intrusive these days. I could see if this was still the world of corded land line phones... but honestly, how hard is it to toss kiddo the cell phone and tell her to call her dad and say hi?

 

[ProSeDadinMD]

The only thing that might be iffy is the daily phone calls. I don't see many orders where a parent is allowed daily calls, because that is somewhat intrusive. That means that the other parent has to be available at a given time, every day that the child is with them, and it can definitely be intrusive to have to schedule your life around a daily phone call.

Now, if you wanted to provide LMPS with a cell phone, so that you and she can speak to each other, as you like, wherever she happens to be, that might be a more workable arrangment.

I’m not averse to getting her a cellphone, but I’m not offering it up front. I mean she's only 10 fer cryin' out loud, and it'd just turn into one more thing for her to lose, as well as give The Ex(that better ecm?) the opportunity to just say "You can't use your phone tonight" whenever she so chooses.

I'm keeping that card up my sleeve for now for possible future use.

I don't think it's that intrusive these days. I could see if this was still the world of corded land line phones... but honestly, how hard is it to toss kiddo the cell phone and tell her to call her dad and say hi?

This is my point exactly. And to add to that, how intrusive, really, is 5-10 minutes. That’s really all I’m asking for. If LMPS want’s to talk longer, I’d be happy as a pig in sh.... well, you know, about it, but 5-10 minutes would suffice.

Y’know, it’d be nice to actually be able to ask our daughter more than once or twice a week how her day at school went, and what she learned today.

It's all about control, sadly enough...

 

[CJane]

Y’know, it’d be nice to actually be able to ask our daughter more than once or twice a week how her day at school went, and what she learned today.

It's all about control, sadly enough...

Exactly.

.....

 

[Zephyr]

So are you saying you are willing to give up sis's b-days?