Out of state visitation without a court order FL/TX

[necessary evil]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Florida

My child support issue has turned into a visitation/custody issue.
https://forum.freeadvice.com/child-support-98/ncp-wants-repaid-summer-cs-519291-p2.html


The two of us were never married and have one 13 y/o daughter together. I have a child support judgment against him (since 1999) and had an injunction for protection against him that I dropped in 2006. There is no custody or visitation order beyond what was established with the injunction - standard EOW and nothing more. Our daughter has lived with me her entire life.

He and I spoke in December before he moved to Texas and agreed that our daughter would go spend some time with him over the summer. He showed up unannounced on May 29th to take her back to Texas with him. When I asked when she'd be back he stated "whenever she wants to come home." I told him no later than August 1st since school starts on August 9th.

He called me last week and requested that I refund him the CS that is auto-deducted from his paycheck while he has her for the summer. I told him that I would not be refunding him the court ordered child support and that Child Support Enforcement advised me that child support is calculated for the year, regardless of his visitation time. I was as nice and straightforward as I could be without kissing his behind.

Today I received an email from his new wife stating her negative opinion of me and that if I want my daughter back that I'm going to have to drive to Texas and get her myself, since I am unwilling to pay him back his child support. She then reminded me that I don't have their address & couldn't find them if I wanted to. I know the city, and I know where he works. I'm sure it wouldn't be too difficult to have a sheriff show up at work, if it came to that.

Having said all of that.. I've scaled the web trying to find info on visitation without a court order and the best I've found was a lawyer's website stating that NCPs are given 3 weeks out of the summer and no more. Does anyone know the actual laws on this?

With him taking her over state lines, and now wifey is threatening to keep my daughter, is that considered kidnapping?

I hope the questions & explanations made sense. I'm trying to keep it together.

 

[LdiJ]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Florida

My child support issue has turned into a visitation/custody issue.
https://forum.freeadvice.com/child-support-98/ncp-wants-repaid-summer-cs-519291-p2.html


The two of us were never married and have one 13 y/o daughter together. I have a child support judgment against him (since 1999) and had an injunction for protection against him that I dropped in 2006. There is no custody or visitation order beyond what was established with the injunction - standard EOW and nothing more. Our daughter has lived with me her entire life.

He and I spoke in December before he moved to Texas and agreed that our daughter would go spend some time with him over the summer. He showed up unannounced on May 29th to take her back to Texas with him. When I asked when she'd be back he stated "whenever she wants to come home." I told him no later than August 1st since school starts on August 9th.

He called me last week and requested that I refund him the CS that is auto-deducted from his paycheck while he has her for the summer. I told him that I would not be refunding him the court ordered child support and that Child Support Enforcement advised me that child support is calculated for the year, regardless of his visitation time. I was as nice and straightforward as I could be without kissing his behind.

Today I received an email from his new wife stating her negative opinion of me and that if I want my daughter back that I'm going to have to drive to Texas and get her myself, since I am unwilling to pay him back his child support. She then reminded me that I don't have their address & couldn't find them if I wanted to. I know the city, and I know where he works. I'm sure it wouldn't be too difficult to have a sheriff show up at work, if it came to that.

Having said all of that.. I've scaled the web trying to find info on visitation without a court order and the best I've found was a lawyer's website stating that NCPs are given 3 weeks out of the summer and no more. Does anyone know the actual laws on this?

With him taking her over state lines, and now wifey is threatening to keep my daughter, is that considered kidnapping?

I hope the questions & explanations made sense. I'm trying to keep it together.

No, that doesn't make it kidnapping. Although certainly the "tone" of her email was quite stupid on her part. You gave dad until August 1st to return her, therefore it won't be "custodial interference" unless he both refuses to return her by August 1st and refuses to give you his address.

Now, since you know where dad words, You could contact him at work, tell him about the email that his wife sent, and tell him that it certainly sounds like a threat of parental kidnapping to you. Tell dad that unless he is willing to immediately give you his home address and you can verify that its his home address, that you are going to have to start getting the law involved now. If he is not involved in what his wife is doing, then he may apologize and give you the address. If he is, then you likely had best get down to finding him NOW and getting your daughter back.

 

[necessary evil]

Thanks, Ldij. I'm on it now.

 

[necessary evil]

Follow up question

As of 09/09: In Florida, in order to get visitation/custody established outside of divorce you are required to file a "Petition to Determine Paternity and for Related Relief."

In 1999 when I initially was awarded child support, there was a Paternity IV-D case opened and he had to submit to DNA testing. Paternity was established as well as child support, but there was no order on custody or visitation.

Now, in order to get custody/visitation court ordered, would I need to file a whole new motion, or could I reopen the Paternity IV-D case & submit a different form? It doesn't seem like a Motion for Modification would work, since there is no previous custody/visitation order to modify.

 

[LdiJ]

As of 09/09: In Florida, in order to get visitation/custody established outside of divorce you are required to file a "Petition to Determine Paternity and for Related Relief."

In 1999 when I initially was awarded child support, there was a Paternity IV-D case opened and he had to submit to DNA testing. Paternity was established as well as child support, but there was no order on custody or visitation.

Now, in order to get custody/visitation court ordered, would I need to file a whole new motion, or could I reopen the Paternity IV-D case & submit a different form? It doesn't seem like a Motion for Modification would work, since there is no previous custody/visitation order to modify.

It would be an original action I would think. I think it would be a whole new case.

However, wait until you talk to dad first. You need to find out first whether or not you have an "emergency".

 

[Silverplum]

Gracie3787 is a wonderful poster from FL, and I always crib her stuff when a FL poster needs help before she gets here.

You can research the laws at: Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : flsenate.gov

You can research the civil rules at: FLORIDA RULES OF CIVIL PROCEDURE

You can research the family law rules at: Florida Family Law Rules

You can find forms and other info at: Florida State Courts

You can get a low cost consult by calling the Florida Bar Lawyer Referral Service at 1-800-342-8011.

I vote you try the low-cost consultation first!

 

[necessary evil]

Thanks so much!

 

[Silverplum]

Thanks so much!

You're totally welcome. But I just cribbed Gracie.

 

[LdiJ]

Gracie3787 is a wonderful poster from FL, and I always crib her stuff when a FL poster needs help before she gets here.



I vote you try the low-cost consultation first!

I don't disagree with this at all, but I still feel very strongly that she needs to speak to dad to see if she has a real emergency or not. What questions she needs to ask during her free consult are going to depend on just how much of an emergency the situation is.

 

[necessary evil]

I don't disagree with this at all, but I still feel very strongly that she needs to speak to dad to see if she has a real emergency or not. What questions she needs to ask during her free consult are going to depend on just how much of an emergency the situation is.

I was thanking you as well, Ldij. I've been trying to reach him, and so far have been unsuccessful. I'll keep trying him before I take any drastic measures.

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

Listen to how your gut feels. This sounds similar to my situation three years ago. BUT, I actually had court orders that dad chose not to follow.

If you feel that things are not "right", make sure that you get all your ducks in a row so that you can do a pickup. If you go to court, make sure that your attorney asks for YOUR attorney fees to be paid by dad.

I was prepared for action when dad did NOT return the child. Yes, it was the week from he double-hockey-sticks, but in the end, I had the child.

 

[necessary evil]

Listen to how your gut feels. This sounds similar to my situation three years ago. BUT, I actually had court orders that dad chose not to follow.

If you feel that things are not "right", make sure that you get all your ducks in a row so that you can do a pickup. If you go to court, make sure that your attorney asks for YOUR attorney fees to be paid by dad.

I was prepared for action when dad did NOT return the child. Yes, it was the week from he double-hockey-sticks, but in the end, I had the child.

TO be honest, it doesn't feel right at all to me. Cold & clammy.. Plus I'm 5 months pregnant and the stress is affecting me physically. I've been making the concerted effort not to panic. I know she's fine, It's just not being able to see her or talk to her and knowing she is so far away. She's a big girl, and I really have nothing to worry about until August 1st. I'm considering filing the custody/visitation paperwork now so that this can't happen again.

I've tried calling, and I've left my daughter messages online but still haven't heard anything back.

 

[necessary evil]

FL Statutes 742.031 (2) states: If a judgment of paternity contains only a child support award with no parenting plan or time-sharing schedule, the obligee parent shall receive all of the time-sharing and sole parental responsibility without prejudice to the obligor parent.

So does that mean that legally he has no visitation rights?

 

[LdiJ]

FL Statutes 742.031 (2) states: If a judgment of paternity contains only a child support award with no parenting plan or time-sharing schedule, the obligee parent shall receive all of the time-sharing and sole parental responsibility without prejudice to the obligor parent.

So does that mean that legally he has no visitation rights?

Yes, it means that and you should take a copy of that with you if you have to go to TX to retrieve your child. Take a copy of the child support orders and her BC with you as well.

However, if you can get emergency custody orders before then, that would be best.

 

[necessary evil]

I have yet to hear anything back from Dad. Our daughter contacted me two days ago for the first time since she's been gone and informed me that Dad and stepmom have been trying to convince her to stay with them. She refused and began asking when she could come home a MONTH AGO. She has even gone so far as to offer Dad gas money if he will take her home right away.

Dad told her that he will NOT be returning her this weekend because (get this)

"he says his boss is off this weekend and he has to cover for him, so he can't get the time off yet. He has to wait until the boss gets back before he will know when he can bring me home"

Now, the agreement on May 29th was "whenever she wants to come home, but no later than August 1st". Why on Earth would he have not ALREADY set up the time off to bring her home?

Stepmom is not gaining any additional points with me. Turns out she bleached my daughter's hair and streaked it with pink & purple semi-permanent dye, then cut it short. She also attempted to pierce her nose, but "the needle fell out", my daughter saw blood and asked her to stop. She did, however, successfully pierce a second set of holes in my daughter's ears.

I'm trying to play it cool. I told our daughter to talk to her Dad and find out when he plans to bring her home. Once I get an answer I will know which direction to go. I can't get up there to pick her up until August 6th or 7th and school starts on the 9th. I hope he enjoyed his summer with her because absent a court order he won't be seeing her again outside of my house.