Failure to Remove Snow ticket

[jfranc]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? NJ

I wrote a whole bunch before, but somehow the page refreshed and I lost everything I wrote. Lets try again.

We own a condo that is part of a 2 unit condo association. My GF received a ticket in the mail a few days ago about a violation on Feb 5th for Failure to Remove Snow. Our neighbor, who owns the second condo unit, received the ticket as well. The ticket requires a court appearance. I spoke to the court and was told that the judge has set a fee of $189.

I tried going to court and getting a copy of the evidence. I was told that the evidence (a picture) would not be available until the court date/time. I asked if my GF has to appear in court or if I can come on her behalf since we own the condo 50/50, but the court clerk did not seem to be sure one way or the other. I spoke to a borough clerk (I believe) who seemed to think that any of the owners can come.

I asked for a copy of the section that we allegedly violated. Here's what I got from the court clerk for $0.05.

315.50. Removal of snow and ice.
The owner of lands abbudding or bordering upon sidewalks, and public streets, highways, avenues and public places shall remove all snow and ice from the sidewalks within 12 hours after the same are formed or fallen thereon.

When asked about how the fees are determined, I got this from the code book's Sanitary Code section:

E. Any person or persons, corporation, partnership or anyone who violates any section or part of this article, upon conviction, shall be fined for each first offense a penalty of $600; for each second offense a penalty of $800, for each third and every subsequent offense a penalty of $1,000. Every day the violation is in existence shall constitute a separate violation or offense. [Amended (snipped a bunch of dates and Ord. Nos.)]

Now here are my questions:

1. Can I appear in court to fight the ticket even though my GF's name appears on the ticket? We own the condo 50/50.
2. Are they obligated to show me the evidence before the court date? How can I prepare an adequate defense if I can't see the evidence? Is there some paperwork I can file to compel them to give me the evidence ahead of time so that I don't' have to take a day off and come to court in the middle of the day?
3. Since we own a condo, I don't believe we own the land outright. The land is owned by the condominium association and we own shares in the condo association. Since they condo association owns the land, shouldn't they get the ticket. Me and my GF own 50% stake in the condo association and the neighboor the other 50%. Should the ticket have been written to the condo association and would've just been a single ticket, not one for us and one for the neighboor? Can I say that in court and is that likely to move the tickets to the condo association and dismiss one of them for being duplicate?
4. I had no idea that we were supposed to shovel the sidewalk. We try to shovel when we can, but had no idea we had to do so by law. Our sidewalk is adjacent to a patch of grass that the sidewalk runs into, so when it snows nobody is expected to pass through there. The only people using our sidewalk would be us and maybe the mailman. I know that ignorance of the law is no excuse, but according to wikipedia: Ignorantia juris non excusat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (The doctrine assumes that the law in question has been properly published and distributed, for example, by being printed in a government gazette, made available over the internet, or printed in volumes available for sale to the public at affordable prices.). The borough doesn't have a website, nor a government gazette, as far as I know. The price per page is $0.05, which is pretty reasonable for a few pages, but the whole codebook seems to be over a thousand pages, so would cost at least $50 if I asked them to make copies of every single page. When I asked them how I can obtain the whole codebook, I was told that I need to make a request and they will let me know, but most likely it will be several hundred dollars and it gets updated every 6 months or so. If it really is that expensive, can I argue that it was not offered at affordable prices and that I could not be expected to be familiar with this law? Could this defense work?

5. I asked about talking to a public defender, but was told that I can only have access to one if I had a chance of going to jail, or if the fine is over $500. When I found out that the fine on the books is $600, I asked again, but was told since the Judge has set it at $189 then I would not be eligible. I said that the judge might change his mind and charge $600, but that didn't seem to work.

 

[You Are Guilty]

1. Can I appear in court to fight the ticket even though my GF's name appears on the ticket? We own the condo 50/50.

Unless you are a lawyer, no, you cannot represent someone else in a legal proceeding. The appearance needs to be by the person who is listed on the ticket (presumably, "girlfriend" and not "owner"), or their lawyer. You are welcome to give it a shot and hope for an extremely liberal judge. I wouldn't recommend it though.

2. Are they obligated to show me the evidence before the court date? How can I prepare an adequate defense if I can't see the evidence? Is there some paperwork I can file to compel them to give me the evidence ahead of time so that I don't' have to take a day off and come to court in the middle of the day?

How much time do you need to look at a photograph? Either it's your house or its not. Either there is snow on the ground or there is not. Were you planning on having the photo examined by a forensic expert? You can ask the court for a continuance to do so at the first court date. (Doubtful you'll get one, but you can ask).

3. Since we own a condo, I don't believe we own the land outright. The land is owned by the condominium association and we own shares in the condo association. Since they condo association owns the land, shouldn't they get the ticket. Me and my GF own 50% stake in the condo association and the neighboor the other 50%. Should the ticket have been written to the condo association and would've just been a single ticket, not one for us and one for the neighboor? Can I say that in court and is that likely to move the tickets to the condo association and dismiss one of them for being duplicate?

No, they will never "reissue" the ticket. What you can do instead, is contest it, and if you end up having to pay anything, turning around and suing the condo association for its share of the costs in small claims court. (That's assuming the association has any liability for snow removal - check your offering plan; by-laws, CCRs, etc).

4. I had no idea that we were supposed to shovel the sidewalk. We try to shovel when we can, but had no idea we had to do so by law. ... If it really is that expensive, can I argue that it was not offered at affordable prices and that I could not be expected to be familiar with this law? Could this defense work?

Can the argument be made? Sure, you can argue anything you like. Will it work? I'm not psychic, but I don't see that one ending well for you.

5. I asked about talking to a public defender, but was told that I can only have access to one if I had a chance of going to jail, or if the fine is over $500. When I found out that the fine on the books is $600, I asked again, but was told since the Judge has set it at $189 then I would not be eligible. I said that the judge might change his mind and charge $600, but that didn't seem to work.

I would be shocked if you were offered a PD on a snow ticket, but keep asking. All they can do is say "no".

Good luck.

 

[jfranc]

This just raises more questions

Unless you are a lawyer, no, you cannot represent someone else in a legal proceeding. The appearance needs to be by the person who is listed on the ticket (presumably, "girlfriend" and not "owner"), or their lawyer. You are welcome to give it a shot and hope for an extremely liberal judge. I wouldn't recommend it though.

Why was my girlfriend listed on the ticket if both of us are 50/50 owners of the property? We both have responsibility for the ticket, so why is she the one that has to show up? I was told that they don't even have to put a name on the ticket, just the address, so is it really important who shows up?

The court clerk was going back and forth about who needs to show up. The borough clerk said that any of the owners can show up. Should I get a statement from them about this? Is there a way to change who needs to appear in court? Can I reschedule?

How much time do you need to look at a photograph? Either it's your house or its not. Either there is snow on the ground or there is not. Were you planning on having the photo examined by a forensic expert? You can ask the court for a continuance to do so at the first court date. (Doubtful you'll get one, but you can ask).

Well from the photograph it will not be clear if it's my house as there is no number on it. According to the National Weather Service, the storm was on Feb 1-2, and the ticket was on Feb 5. I guess this makes it over 12 hours after the snow storm, but I want to see what they claim we didn't clean up. Maybe it was not possible to clean any more, or the part that they claim we didn't clean is over grass, etc. I just don't want to have to figure out a defense on the spot.

When there is a trial, the defense lawyers get a copy of everything during the discovery phase. Why is that not the same here? Or is it because there is no trial yet?

No, they will never "reissue" the ticket. What you can do instead, is contest it, and if you end up having to pay anything, turning around and suing the condo association for its share of the costs in small claims court. (That's assuming the association has any liability for snow removal - check your offering plan; by-laws, CCRs, etc).

I'm not sure you understood me. The condo association consists of me and the neighbor. We both received tickets. Since we don't actually own the land, and the condo association does, shouldn't they have gotten the ticket? The law clear states the owner of the land, not the owner of the house on the land. If the condo association gets the ticket, then there will be a single ticket for the 2 unit property, possibly cutting our fee in half, unless the judge decides to charge a higher fee to a corporation.

Also is it actually true that the condo association owns the land? Where can I find evidence to support this, other then wikipedia?

Can the argument be made? Sure, you can argue anything you like. Will it work? I'm not psychic, but I don't see that one ending well for you.

How can people be expected to follow the laws if they don't know what they are? Some laws are beyond ridiculous (like no eating ice cream on a Sunday). How can a person be expected to know all the laws if they have no easy access to them. Since the borough failed to provide easy and affordable access to the law, shouldn't the ticket be dismissed, particularly since it is a first offense?

Where can I find legal reference for this doctrine? Perhaps there is something that clearly states that they must provide affordable access to the laws, otherwise the citizens cannot be expected to know about them.

I would be shocked if you were offered a PD on a snow ticket, but keep asking. All they can do is say "no".

Where can I find out what the rules are for getting a PD? Would it be in the borough's code book?


Thanks a lot for your help.

 

[You Are Guilty]

Why was my girlfriend listed on the ticket if both of us are 50/50 owners of the property?

I didn't write the ticket so this is all pure speculation, but perhaps hers is the only name on the mailbox? They obviously got her name from somewhere - maybe it was some sort of public property record. Heck, it could even be a reverse phone book look-up.

We both have responsibility for the ticket, so why is she the one that has to show up?

Because it is apparently her name on the ticket. That's a pretty big clue as to who is required to appear.

I was told that they don't even have to put a name on the ticket, just the address, so is it really important who shows up?

If they only put an address with no names, probably not. But since they did list her name, well, see above.

The court clerk was going back and forth about who needs to show up. The borough clerk said that any of the owners can show up. Should I get a statement from them about this?

Even if they gave you a signed, notarized document witnessed by the Pope (btw, they won't), what purpose would it serve? They are not lawyers, they cannot give legal advice and frankly, they probably shouldn't even be speculating in your presence. It does you a disservice.

Is there a way to change who needs to appear in court? Can I reschedule?

"You" cannot do any legal work for another unless a) you are a licensed lawyer, or b) in certain specific circumstances not present here, you live in New Hampshire. GF can certainly send a letter requesting a new court date - particularly if she has good reason to need one and sends supporting documentation with the request, they are often granted.

As for changing who needs to appear, I suppose GF can petition the court to add you as a defendant as well as her, in which case you would be free to appear yourself, but I'm not sure the judge and/or court will have any interest in that.

Well from the photograph it will not be clear if it's my house as there is no number on it.

You can't recognize your own house? Why not?

According to the National Weather Service, the storm was on Feb 1-2, and the ticket was on Feb 5. I guess this makes it over 12 hours after the snow storm, but I want to see what they claim we didn't clean up.

I agree and you are entitled to see the photo. The question is why you need days to look at it, and not a few minutes in court.

Maybe it was not possible to clean any more, or the part that they claim we didn't clean is over grass, etc. I just don't want to have to figure out a defense on the spot.

The first clause is not a defense, and while I doubt they would issue a ticket for snowy grass, it seems to me that you are certainly intelligent enough (at least from your posts here) that you can formulate the "that's grass, not a sidewalk" defense on the spot.

When there is a trial, the defense lawyers get a copy of everything during the discovery phase. Why is that not the same here? Or is it because there is no trial yet?

Odds are there won't be a "trial", but rather a "hearing". Different rules.

I'm not sure you understood me. The condo association consists of me and the neighbor. We both received tickets. Since we don't actually own the land, and the condo association does, shouldn't they have gotten the ticket?

It is possible, depending on how your condo is set up in terms of ownership rights, common areas, limited common areas, etc. So this could potentially be a valid defense if all the chips fall in your favor with the condo documentation.

The law clear states the owner of the land, not the owner of the house on the land. If the condo association gets the ticket, then there will be a single ticket for the 2 unit property, possibly cutting our fee in half, unless the judge decides to charge a higher fee to a corporation.

Odds are you (and neighbor) do own the land, but like I said, check all your condo docs to see how it's laid out. It's also possible that you might be owed indemnity for being ticketed (and paying for) something the condo is responsible for. It's all in your documentation.

Also is it actually true that the condo association owns the land?

Probably not, but anything is possible.

Where can I find evidence to support this, other then wikipedia?

Your offering plan, declarations, by-lawys, CC&Rs, purchase agreement, etc... all that good stuff you got when your bought your property. Time to finally read all of it!

How can people be expected to follow the laws if they don't know what they are? Some laws are beyond ridiculous (like no eating ice cream on a Sunday). How can a person be expected to know all the laws if they have no easy access to them. Since the borough failed to provide easy and affordable access to the law, shouldn't the ticket be dismissed, particularly since it is a first offense?

Nice try People are expected to know the laws, because to permit the proverbial ignorance to be a defense, no one on the planet would ever admit they knew anything. "Gee, officer, how am I supposed to know that you can't take a flat screen out of the store without paying for it? There's no sign that says so!"

Where can I find legal reference for this doctrine? Perhaps there is something that clearly states that they must provide affordable access to the laws, otherwise the citizens cannot be expected to know about them.

Google "Ignorantia juris non excusat". It's a several hundred year old doctrine, so I don't see it being overturned on a snow removal citation.

Where can I find out what the rules are for getting a PD? Would it be in the borough's code book?

I doubt it. I'd google your state's criminal procedure code and state looking there. (I would do it myself but the NJ code website is notoriously hard to navigate and takes forever if you don't know exactly what you're looking for from the start). But odds are, that's where the rule would be codified.

Thanks a lot for your help.

Good luck.