CA VC 21801(a) Left Turn on Green Arrow

[CdwJava]

No. What OP is saying is that there isn't a right turn arrow.

That's not what he wrote, however ...

"There is no right turn arrow signal in the opposite direction - only circular."

I read that to mean that there is no right turn arrow in the opposite direction, but there IS a green circular light for traffic in that direction.

OP needs to verify whether a protected left turn signal has priority over right on red. I'm pretty sure it does.

If the oncoming lane had a circular red, then that driver would have to stop and yield to any cross traffic or lawfully permitted left turns.

 

[telepresent]

OP needs to verify whether a protected left turn signal has priority over right on red. I'm pretty sure it does.

How could I verify this?

 

[Zigner]

Yes and California Driver Handbook says "Left turn from a two-way street into a one-way street. Start the turn from the lane closest to the middle of the street. Turn into any lane that is safely open"
https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/detail/pubs/hdbk/turns

Yes, that's what I posted - except I posted the actual law, not just the guide.

 

[Zigner]

In reference to right turn on red:

21453. (a) A driver facing a steady circular red signal alone shall
stop at a marked limit line, but if none, before entering the
crosswalk on the near side of the intersection or, if none, then
before entering the intersection, and shall remain stopped until an
indication to proceed is shown, except as provided in subdivision
(b).
(b) Except when a sign is in place prohibiting a turn, a driver,
after stopping as required by subdivision (a), facing a steady
circular red signal, may turn right, or turn left from a one-way
street onto a one-way street. A driver making that turn shall yield
the right-of-way to pedestrians lawfully within an adjacent crosswalk
and to any vehicle that has approached or is approaching so closely
as to constitute an immediate hazard to the driver, and shall
continue to yield the right-of-way to that vehicle until the driver
can proceed with reasonable safety.

Right - it's all going to come down to timing since you could both be required to yield.

 

[telepresent]

Right - it's all going to come down to timing since you could both be required to yield.

We both entered the intersection at the same time. It really wasn't a big deal - I just honked at the driver for cutting me off and to alert that I had the right of way.

 

[Zigner]

We both entered the intersection at the same time. It really wasn't a big deal - I just honked at the driver for cutting me off and to alert that I had the right of way.

It sounds to me like you did, indeed, have the right away in this situation. You would need to fight this ticket.

 

[telepresent]

It sounds to me like you did, indeed, have the right away in this situation. You would need to fight this ticket.

I do intend to fight the ticket - that is why I am here asking for advice for my case.
What evidence and arguments would help support my case? How do I show a protected left turn signal has priority over right on red? Is there a precedent or law I can point to?

 

[Zigner]

I do intend to fight the ticket - that is why I am here asking for advice for my case.
What evidence and arguments would help support my case? How do I show a protected left turn signal has priority over right on red? Is there a precedent or law I can point to?

I don't think that you need to "prove" that. I think you simply need to bring copies of the code sections mentioned above. You may wish to do a Trial by Written Declaration first and include all of the information. If you lose, the you can still go in person and fight it as if the TBWD had never happened.

 

[CdwJava]

21453(a) requires that a driver stop and wait until it is safe to turn. THAT is all you should need ... assuming the other driver had a circular red light and no right turn green arrow.

21453. (a) A driver facing a steady circular red signal alone shall stop at a marked limit line, but if none, before entering the crosswalk on the near side of the intersection or, if none, then before entering the intersection, and shall remain stopped until an indication to proceed is shown, except as provided in subdivision (b).
(b) Except when a sign is in place prohibiting a turn, a driver, after stopping as required by subdivision (a), facing a steady circular red signal, may turn right, or turn left from a one-way street onto a one-way street. A driver making that turn shall yield the right-of-way to pedestrians lawfully within an adjacent crosswalk and to any vehicle that has approached or is approaching so closely as to constitute an immediate hazard to the driver, and shall continue to yield the right-of-way to that vehicle until the driver can proceed with reasonable safety.

(c) A driver facing a steady red arrow signal shall not enter the intersection to make the movement indicated by the arrow and, unless entering the intersection to make a movement permitted by another signal, shall stop at a clearly marked limit line, but if none, before entering the crosswalk on the near side of the intersection, or if none, then before entering the intersection, and shall remain stopped until an indication permitting movement is shown.

(d) Unless otherwise directed by a pedestrian control signal as provided in Section 21456, a pedestrian facing a steady circular red or red arrow signal shall not enter the roadway.​

 

[telepresent]

21453(a) requires that a driver stop and wait until it is safe to turn. THAT is all you should need ... assuming the other driver had a circular red light and no right turn green arrow.[/indent]

To show the other driver had a circular red light would you have to prove the typical and consistent behavior of this traffic light? Through observation and possibly video?

 

[Zigner]

To show the other driver had a circular red light would you have to prove the typical and consistent behavior of this traffic light? Through observation and possibly video?

Video can't hurt. Did the officer think the other party had a green light?

 

[telepresent]

Video can't hurt. Did the officer think the other party had a green light?

I do not know what the officer thought and have not received anything from my discovery request.

 

[CdwJava]

To show the other driver had a circular red light would you have to prove the typical and consistent behavior of this traffic light? Through observation and possibly video?

It would not hurt. But, it is inconceivable to think that a traffic engineer with half a brain cell would program a light with a circular green light while facing an active green arrow. Perhaps if you simply have some short video on an ipad or similar device to show that the light is red when the cross traffic has a left turn green arrow it might cement things.

On cross examination of the officer, you can always ask him if he knows whether the oncoming traffic signal was red when the left turn signal is green. If he knows, it should cement the case.

However, I HAVE seen light configurations such as you speak where your green and green arrow change to a green light and a yellow then a disappearing arrow. THAT would mean that you would have to treat the light as any other green light and would have to yield to oncoming traffic with a green light such as someone with a green light making a right turn. So, if the turning driver was facin ga green light, you would have to yield. It might be possible that the officer believed that to be the situation, and may not have known or been able to see that you had a green left turn arrow.

I hope that is as clear as mud ...