Uncooperative is subjective

[BReezy73]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Texas
Hello,
I am a manager with an employee who is very difficult to work with. When things go her way she creates good work, however if her ideas are not liked, she continues to push her ideas. Her constant push back has delayed productivity. She is in a protected class. I have spoken with her numerous times. I documented like was supposed to I placed her on a PIP. all of a sudden she decided that she would file a complaint because she did not deserve to be placed on a PIP. Months later I am advised, I need to reissue the PIP and focus on her being "uncooperative".

Once I started corrective action, every document was sent to and approved by HR. Every conversation was held in the presence of HR. I have administered corrective action for low productivity and disproportionate push back. I gave specific directions on how she is to create materials. In order to get materials completed, I must be present in every meeting. Her behavior has frustrated other team members because she becomes argumentative if they don't agree with her (if I am not present).

My questions are
How do I administer a PIP for being uncooperative?
Since other team members know she has not done her job and she is still here, how can I hold them accountable if they choose to behave the same way?
As a manager, my goals are at risk, can I be held accountable when I am not allowed to hold them accountable?

Any guidance would be appreciated...

 

[Just Blue]

May I ask what "protected class" this bad employee is in?

 

[cbg]

Let me point out that everyone is in at least three protected classes. We all have a race, we all have a nationality and we all have a gender. It's just as illegal to discriminate against someone for being a white American male as it is to discriminate against someone for being an Arabic female. So whatever "protected class" you are thinking about, it's immaterial. Nothing gives members of minority groups a license to behave however they like.

To your questions:

How do I administer a PIP for being uncooperative? "Alice, last week you were told you had to have the Johnson report completed by Thursday and to get the figures from Jim. Instead you sat there and argued with Sally about why you should get the figures from Alvin instead. We need to see an immediate change in the way you address people and your assignments. If I see or hear of you arguing about the way you want to do your assignments instead of doing them the way you're told to do them, I'm putting a write up in your file."

Since other team members know she has not done her job and she is still here, how can I hold them accountable if they choose to behave the same way? "We're not talking about Alice right now; we're talking about you."

As a manager, my goals are at risk, can I be held accountable when I am not allowed to hold them accountable? Yes. No one said life was fair.

 

[BReezy73]

How do I administer a PIP for being uncooperative? "Alice, last week you were told you had to have the Johnson report completed by Thursday and to get the figures from Jim. Instead you sat there and argued with Sally about why you should get the figures from Alvin instead. We need to see an immediate change in the way you address people and your assignments. If I see or hear of you arguing about the way you want to do your assignments instead of doing them the way you're told to do them, I'm putting a write up in your file."

Excellent... so when I issued the PIP indicating that she should do what she was asked rather than what she wanted, I was on target.

Since other team members know she has not done her job and she is still here, how can I hold them accountable if they choose to behave the same way? "We're not talking about Alice right now; we're talking about you."

I am not concerned about having the conversation, I am concerned about the precedents this is setting. We would be opening ourselves up to a lawsuit, if we term someone else for the same behavior.

As a manager, my goals are at risk, can I be held accountable when I am not allowed to hold them accountable? Yes. No one said life was fair.
No life is not fair, but as always, I can make a choice

 

[davew128]

I agree uncooperative is subjective. Imagine having an employee contract that was collectively bargained. You are accused of being generally aware about something that may or may not even have happened. You under rights granted to you under employment law and your collectively bargained contract refuse to allow an employer representative to search your phone, and as a result get suspended for 4 games for not being cooperative. #FreeTomBrady!

 

[commentator]

"I am not concerned about having the conversation, I am concerned about the precedents this is setting. We would be opening ourselves up to a lawsuit, if we term someone else for the same behavior.

As a manager, my goals are at risk, can I be held accountable when I am not allowed to hold them accountable? Yes. No one said life was fair.
No life is not fair, but as always, I can make a choice[/QUOTE]

I do not see that you are "opening yourselves up for a lawsuit" particularly if you terminated someone else for this same behavior. Even if you terminated the whole rest of your staff for exactly the same behavior you allowed Alice to get away with, they would NOT have any lawsuit against the company. Companies can hire and fire who they want to, and they can certainly choose to fire someone or not to fire someone, even if they elect to fire or not fire someone else for the same behavior.

And no one is forbidding you to critique/manage/discipline Alice. If Alice's behavior is such that she gets in the way of your department's performance, then you are not being a successful manager. You should chose rather to get into trouble for trying to do a good job, and manage your employees effectively, rather than worrying about whether your company is "opening itself up for a lawsuit." That's HR's problem.

 

[cbg]

We would be opening ourselves up to a lawsuit, if we term someone else for the same behavior.

I have two responses to that. One, only if the one filing the lawsuit could provide supportable and verifiable proof that they were being treated differently BECAUSE OF their membership in a protected class. No law says all employees have to be treated identically. It says only that any differences in treatment cannot be based in a characteristic protected by law.

Two, then stop letting "Alice" get away with it.

 

[BReezy73]

We would be opening ourselves up to a lawsuit, if we term someone else for the same behavior.

I have two responses to that. One, only if the one filing the lawsuit could provide supportable and verifiable proof that they were being treated differently BECAUSE OF their membership in a protected class. No law says all employees have to be treated identically. It says only that any differences in treatment cannot be based in a characteristic protected by law.

Two, then stop letting "Alice" get away with it.

I am not letting Alice get away with anything. I placed Alice on corrective action that cited she was not meeting productivity expectations. I have followed the procedures any good leader would follow. Human resources has been involved with every level of discipline. When I moved forward to terminate her, she went to HR with her attorney contesting the PIP. HR working with the company attorney determined that I could not term her, but rather redo the PIP stating she was uncooperative.

I am utilizing other employees to get the job done, although they have other things to do as that is not their primary function.
I am actually a pretty good manager who gets results, I have never had an incident in which I have done everything I was supposed to do and then HR said, no you can't term this person who is obviously not meeting the company needs.

I know that crafting a PIP that says this person in uncooperative is WRONG. The focus should be on if she is delivering the product.(which has already been done) I cannot measure uncooperative.

Maybe my question should have been how to address the issue with HR when I disagree with their direction.

 

[Ladyback1]

I am not letting Alice get away with anything. I placed Alice on corrective action that cited she was not meeting productivity expectations. I have followed the procedures any good leader would follow. Human resources has been involved with every level of discipline. When I moved forward to terminate her, she went to HR with her attorney contesting the PIP. HR working with the company attorney determined that I could not term her, but rather redo the PIP stating she was uncooperative.

I am utilizing other employees to get the job done, although they have other things to do as that is not their primary function.
I am actually a pretty good manager who gets results, I have never had an incident in which I have done everything I was supposed to do and then HR said, no you can't term this person who is obviously not meeting the company needs.

I know that crafting a PIP that says this person in uncooperative is WRONG. The focus should be on if she is delivering the product.(which has already been done) I cannot measure uncooperative.

Maybe my question should have been how to address the issue with HR when I disagree with their direction.

If the employee has been given specific instructions and does not follow those instructions, wouldn't "INSUBORDINATION" be a better description than "uncooperative"?

 

[eerelations]

I know that crafting a PIP that says this person in uncooperative is WRONG.

If you came here looking for validation of this opinion of yours, you're not going to get it here. cbg has more than 30 years' professional experience guiding and advising managers on how to draft PIPs for their employees' behavioural problems. She most definitely knows what of she speaks.

Addressing an employee's lack of cooperation is not a subjective endeavour - if you'd taken the time to read cbg's posts in their entirety, you'd have seen that she gave you some excellent advice and examples on how to address your employee's lack of cooperation in a highly objective manner.

And I can say all this with complete and utter confidence in its accuracy because I too have more than 30 years' professional experience guiding and advising managers on how to draft PIPs for their employees' behavioural problems. (In other words, I too know what of I speak )

 

[BReezy73]

What is the point?!?

If you came here looking for validation of this opinion of yours, you're not going to get it here. cbg has more than 30 years' professional experience guiding and advising managers on how to draft PIPs for their employees' behavioural problems. She most definitely knows what of she speaks.

Addressing an employee's lack of cooperation is not a subjective endeavour - if you'd taken the time to read cbg's posts in their entirety, you'd have seen that she gave you some excellent advice and examples on how to address your employee's lack of cooperation in a highly objective manner.

And I can say all this with complete and utter confidence in its accuracy because I too have more than 30 years' professional experience guiding and advising managers on how to draft PIPs for their employees' behavioural problems. (In other words, I too know what of I speak )

While I respect the 60 years of experience between the 2 of you, I already wrote a PIP telling her what I wanted her to do. It basically said what CBG advised w/o the if I "hear" about it. Hear say does not fly in my organization...

Since I have done what you suggested, "which I had already done" I will keep doing what I know I should do.

 

[Zigner]

While I respect the 60 years of experience between the 2 of you, I already wrote a PIP telling her what I wanted her to do. It basically said what CBG advised w/o the if I "hear" about it. Hear say does not fly in my organization...

Since I have done what you suggested, "which I had already done" I will keep doing what I know I should do.

To me, this sounds less like a "legal" problem and more like an internal problem. You will want to confer with HR to see what your possible solutions will be.

ETA: This is especially true if the employee has an attorney in the mix.

 

[eerelations]

While I respect the 60 years of experience between the 2 of you, I already wrote a PIP telling her what I wanted her to do. It basically said what CBG advised w/o the if I "hear" about it. Hear say does not fly in my organization...

Since I have done what you suggested, "which I had already done" I will keep doing what I know I should do.

Wow aren't you the snarky one! First cbg and others knock themselves out giving you good solid advice, and you respond by yelling at them that they're WRONG. And when I call you on your rudeness you get all snippy and say oh I already did that except for the hearsay part 'cause I'm so smart and PC I don't do hearsay.

If you'd been a little more polite and a little less snippy, you might have had the privilege of getting a good solid professional explanation of what cbg meant by her "hear" comment. But after your little tantrums and sarcasm, I doubt that'll happen now. (I'll give you a hint though: it had nothing to do with hearsay!)

I'm starting to suspect that your employee may have a good valid reason for appearing to be uncooperative...

 

[eerelations]

Quick question OP: if writing up an employee is so subjective and just plain WRONG, why did you do it? Given that you're such a good manager and all, you know.

 

[BReezy73]

Snarky and Snippy

Quick question OP: if writing up an employee is so subjective and just plain WRONG, why did you do it? Given that you're such a good manager and all, you know.

I am hardly snarky or snippy. Nor have I been rude. I spoke directly as did you. I imagine you read my response in the same manner in which I perceived yours. As I stated I respect your experience, and I like to think that if we worked together, our opinions of each other would be very different.

I am inclined to agree with Zigner, this is probably not legal and more internal. I will seek advice here when I believe it to be beneficial.

Thanks and happy Wednesday.