Making heads or tails of whether resign or be fired!

[Moira.Malone]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Vermont

Long story short: I am aware I will be fired next week because the woman, the founder of the org whom I was supposed to replace 6 months ago "can't work with me" (oh the irony as she was supposed to be long GONE). That was the direct quote from the Director (who is also dealing with the founder never going away.) I have been micromanaged within an inch of my life, antagonized, not trained, etc...but I have always done my job successfully. I have never been told outright I was doing a poor job, never disciplined and the membership of the organization adores me. Bottom line, I had the gall to finally stand up for myself against the constant patronizing, rude attitude---and as historically, the person in my position has been fired directly after the project they have been hired to do ends as the founder really only wanted a paid intern, not a replacement---well, it's my turn! I had every intention of quitting anyway, just simply on my own terms as soon as one of the many jobs I'm interviewing for comes through. Alas...

The staff is 6 people. 4 have been fired by this woman in the past year. As I only knew one of them, I only know her experience with getting severance. She received a month, but had been there 3x longer than I. I have serious doubts I will see any. That said, I DO have 80 hours of Paid CTO that would likely be more than any severance than what I am offered anyway. My concern is in the wording of the employee manual:

Employees who resign, who are not terminated for just cause, may be entitled to receive accumulated CTO pay up to a limit of 20 days (160 hours).

The "may" is what gets me. So I'm stuck wondering if I take the chance on allowing them to fire me and not getting any severance AND not getting my vacation time either (as apparently not being liked by one person is a just cause to be fired, ha) but then also maybe not getting my vacation time because of that sneaky "may be entitled" stuff either if I resign.

I would appreciate any insight into being able to battle the "may" should I choose to resign. Frankly, I wouldn't be getting enough unemployment to make much of an impact on my life----the vacation time, with what I make an hour (divided into my salary), would be far, far more than a month's unemployment...and I am close enough to a new job that I'd far rather have that money all at once.

Thanks!

 

[eerelations]

They have covered themselves with the words "may" and "up to" - this means that if you resign they are legally free to pay you anywhere from 0 hours up to 160 hours. Whatever they pay you, even if it's 0, you will have no legal recourse to get any more.

 

[Moira.Malone]

They have covered themselves with the words "may" and "up to" - this means that if you resign they are legally free to pay you anywhere from 0 hours up to 160 hours. Whatever they pay you, even if it's 0, you will have no legal recourse to get any more.

Yeah, that's sort of what I was afraid of. Damned if I quit, damned if I allow myself to be fired. What a joke.

Thanks for your insight.

 

[Ohiogal]

Yeah, that's sort of what I was afraid of. Damned if I quit, damned if I allow myself to be fired. What a joke.

Thanks for your insight.

If you get fired, you may qualify for unemployment.

 

[Moira.Malone]

If you get fired, you may qualify for unemployment.

You are absolutely correct---but it won't be much (I had a period of low employment during the last 18 months as I was finishing an unpaid research project so my 18 month total income isn't so hot), and from all the interviews I've been having in the last few weeks, I'm pretty confident that I will be gainfully re-employed by the time the UI benefits even kick in.

I guess I have to decide if I take the chance that I won't be screwed on vacation time if I quit or cross my fingers for severance. I work remotely so I have a laptop, phone and printer to return as well...so that's a pain! The meeting is next Tuesday, so I have a couple of days to agonize over it

 

[commentator]

My take on this is that you should negotiate with them. Tell them to draw up a letter saying that there is this understanding that you are being threatened with termination, and that you agree to resign in lieu of being terminated and you because you are resigning, you will be paid xxx amount of severance.

Remember, you are not agreeing NOT to file for unemployment after the 'resignation.' Any agreement between you and the employer that you will not file is not binding and is actually illegal for them to do. It's like signing something saying you will accept less than minimum wage.

Since you are close to a new job, and do not think you will need unemployment you may think that it's not worth the trouble of filing, since you assume that you will be resigning and taking a severance, and that will tide you over financially, and you will find another job immediately and that will be the best way.

But as someone has pointed out, they may very well NOT give you any severance. Even if you file a claim it will always take a while to get the payments started. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't do it just for back up. Or that because you might not have a lot of money in the claim, the unemployment amount wouldn't be enough to fool with. That's sort of silly. That's money that's there for you if you need it and qualify for it and if so, why would you not take it, even if it's not any great amount?

Since the choice of leaving or staying was not yours, even though they gave you the option to resign in lieu of termination, you may have a pretty good chance of being able to get approved for unemployment benefits. It's certainly not an automatic yes or no, quit and you're disqualified, be terminated and you'll get it.

When leaving a job in bad circumstances, if you are between jobs for even a week or two, it's always a good idea to file for unemployment. There are many many times where the new job doesn't get offered at the last minute, or it takes three or four weeks to get you on board. Unemployment benefits are not based on your income or how bad you need them. The severance, if you get it, may keep you from drawing for a few weeks, but you just tell them about it and the system will work it out while they are making the decision on the claim.

But if, as you said, this woman has fired a bunch of employees in the last year, she's cost the agency quite a bit of money in unemployment taxes. They really hate to pay this!! And employers are not automatically off the hook if they get you to say you resign, even if you do so to get severance package.

They may try to buy you off this way and believe this will keep you from qualifying for unemployment insurance, but the unemployment system is very aware that they do this to evade taxes. If you were not given a choice, if it was quit or be fired, and you chose to quit and get a severance package for doing so, that doesn't mean there's no way they'll approve your claim for benefits.

This is called "forcing a quit" and the system looks at it very carefully and may very well determine they had no valid work related misconduct reason to take away your job, and you were not given the option to stay, it was quit or be fired, and so you, not being a dummy, chose to resign and get the severance they agreed to give you.

And as I said, it's always a good idea to file. It's not a needs based program, it's not welfare, it's not the taxpayers dollars or a government handout, and it's not that much trouble to do it. Not filing is like leaving a few hundred dollars lying on the table that you might have gotten, just because you didn't want to fool with it.

And if something happened and you were not able to go directly to that other job, you'd need it and need to have it ready to start. It'd be foolish not to cover the bases because you think it's not worth fooling with. So what if your interviews are going well? Even if it only takes two or three weeks for you to find another job, file for unemployment, regardless of whether you decide to quit under pressure or be fired.