Easy way of telling RE agents that you are representing yourself when buying a house?

[tranquility]

As to presenting all offers;

Unless my principal says otherwise I am bound be law, ethics, and fiduciary duty to present all offers.

Re the difficult negotiations: realize that that showing agent has already established procuring cause. No other smart agent will show the property because the first showing agent has already laid claim to the commission. Good luck to the op if he actuslly wants that property. He will have to deal with that agent for it.

I am uncertain it fulfills the legal requirement of an "offer" under contract law as it would be impossible for the seller to "accept" it. He simply does not have the power to do so. He cannot make an unqualified assent to the terms of the offer as it requires the assent of another. It might be more of a statement or letter of intent. As we know under basic theory, statements of wishes, hopes, or desires are not promises or offers. As well, it might be an inquiry or invitation to make an offer. Basically, "Will you sell me your property for 50,000 with your broker getting 1/2 of his commission promised?" It seeks information and does not amount to a commitment.

 

[STEPHAN]

Show me a real estate contract between you and your clients that states otherwise.

I am not a realtor.

And you are right, you can always try to negotiate. They have the right to refuse.

I buy real estate and I used to be responsible for real estate purchases in a big company and therefore I can tell you: I have made the best deals when took real good care of the realtors. They brought me interesting deals first. And sometimes I even offered above asking price.

 

[Mass_Shyster]

I am uncertain it fulfills the legal requirement of an "offer" under contract law as it would be impossible for the seller to "accept" it. He simply does not have the power to do so. He cannot make an unqualified assent to the terms of the offer as it requires the assent of another. It might be more of a statement or letter of intent. As we know under basic theory, statements of wishes, hopes, or desires are not promises or offers. As well, it might be an inquiry or invitation to make an offer. Basically, "Will you sell me your property for 50,000 with your broker getting 1/2 of his commission promised?" It seeks information and does not amount to a commitment.

How does that differ from an offer with a financing contingency?

"Will you sell me your property for 50,000 if I can get a mortgage"?

 

[tranquility]

How does that differ from an offer with a financing contingency?

"Will you sell me your property for 50,000 if I can get a mortgage"?

That would not be an offer.

"I offer you $50,000 contingent on me getting a mortgage." would be. (Assuming in writing with all the other bells and whistles that makes it definite and certain terms according to the state's laws on realty contracts.)

 

[pditty8811]

That would not be an offer.

"I offer you $50,000 contingent on me getting a mortgage." would be. (Assuming in writing with all the other bells and whistles that makes it definite and certain terms according to the state's laws on realty contracts.)

Dual agency or double dipping is an agreement between a realtor and two other parties. If the buyer clearly states that they are not being represented and no dual agency exists, on the contract, and they have signed no such dual agency agreement with the listing agent, then no dual agency will exist. Therefore, the agent cannot take the commission allotted to both agents.

The commission allotted to a Buyer's agent is not solely an agreement between the listing agent and the seller. It concerns the buyer as well. The buyer must agree, assume, or otherwise understand that such a situation will arise. However, if the buyer refuses such a situation, and does not wish to be represented, then no such dual agency exists, and no such commissions will be paid out.

Let's make this simple, shall we. Show me in the contracts you sign with your clients that states otherwise. Do your contracts suggest otherwise, and if so, please share the them (hiding confidential information of course).

 

[pditty8811]

Anyhow, the easy way to solve such a delima is to create a simple contract, that must be signed by seller, listing broker and buyer. It will state no dual agency exists, and buyer does not have broker representation and that the BAC will not be paid out to any broker or realtor.

If all three parties sign it, and it is stated to be an Entire Agreement Clause, then it is a binding contract, pure and simple.

 

[justalayman]

Dual agency or double dipping is an agreement between a realtor and two other parties. If the buyer clearly states that they are not being represented and no dual agency exists, on the contract, and they have signed no such dual agency agreement with the listing agent, then no dual agency will exist. Therefore, the agent cannot take the commission allotted to both agents.

The commission allotted to a Buyer's agent is not solely an agreement between the listing agent and the seller. It concerns the buyer as well. The buyer must agree, assume, or otherwise understand that such a situation will arise. However, if the buyer refuses such a situation, and does not wish to be represented, then no such dual agency exists, and no such commissions will be paid out.

Let's make this simple, shall we. Show me in the contracts you sign with your clients that states otherwise. Do your contracts suggest otherwise, and if so, please share the them (hiding confidential information of course).

You were wrong when you first said this. You continue to be wrong. Given your lack of actual knowledge and maybe intelligence you will likely always be wrong.

The listing contract is signed with a fixed cost (commission) it doesn't matter if there is one or 100 agents involved, the seller pays that set fee. How, or even if it is divided between more than one agent has nothing to do with that listing contract. It is a contract between participating agents.


And double dipping does not necessarily involve a dual agency. I earned the selling agents and the and the listing agent's commission on the same property and have never worked as a dual agent.

 

[justalayman]

Anyhow, the easy way to solve such a delima is to create a simple contract, that must be signed by seller, listing broker and buyer. It will state no dual agency exists, and buyer does not have broker representation and that the BAC will not be paid out to any broker or realtor.

If all three parties sign it, and it is stated to be an Entire Agreement Clause, then it is a binding contract, pure and simple.

And the selling agent will tell you to go Xxx yourself. The listing broker is not going to alter their contract like that.


You also keep confusing THE commission owed by the seller with the a buyers agent's commission. It matters not if there is a buyers agent or not. In fact, if you actuslly had ANY idea what you are taking about you would realize that the buyers agent's fee does not come from the seller anyway. The buyers agent's fee comes out of the buyers pocket. That is a totally seperate matter. If a buyer hires an agent they pay for they agent.

It is your confusion between the sellers fee and the totally unrelated buyers agent's fee.

 

[pditty8811]

And the selling agent will tell you to go Xxx yourself. The listing broker is not going to alter their contract like that.


You also keep confusing THE commission owed by the seller with the a buyers agent's commission. It matters not if there is a buyers agent or not. In fact, if you actuslly had ANY idea what you are taking about you would realize that the buyers agent's fee does not come from the seller anyway. The buyers agent's fee comes out of the buyers pocket. That is a totally seperate matter. If a buyer hires an agent they pay for they agent.

It is your confusion between the sellers fee and the totally unrelated buyers agent's fee.

Boy, you are confused... The BAC or Buyer's Agent Commission is listed at a suggested percentage with every MLS listing. A RE Agent would know this. This percentage is already figured by the seller and has been accounted for in the sales price of the house.

Do you run this by all your clients, or just post it here to troll this forum?

Do you even work in the Real Estate market? You don't seem to know ANYTHING about it. I thought I heard it all until you said that.

You are sure active on these forums for being a real estate agent. Either you have no clients and are terrible at your job, our you've made up the whole thing. Either way, stop trolling this thread because you're spitting nonsense.

 

[justalayman]

Boy, you are confused... The BAC or Buyer's Agent Commission is listed at a suggested percentage with every MLS listing. A RE Agent would know this. This percentage is already figured by the seller and has been accounted for in the sales price of the house.

Do you run this by all your clients, or just post it here to troll this forum?

Do you even work in the Real Estate market? You don't seem to know ANYTHING about it. I thought I heard it all until you said that.

You are sure active on these forums for being a real estate agent. Either you have no clients and are terrible at your job, our you've made up the whole thing. Either way, stop trolling this thread.

Sorry dude you are wrong. You will apparently never understand why you are wrong so I'll let you not buy a bias on your own.

There is no buyers agent commission listed in any mls listing. It listen a commission (generally a percentage) and how that is split with the selling agent. For some reason you keep making the error that a selling agent is a buyers agent. They aren't. A selling agent is the person who sells the property for the seller. If the buyer hires an agent the fee the buyer pays their agent is determined by the contract between the buyer and his agent.


And you obviously have reading comprehension issues. To back and read my posts and you will realize why anything you said about me being on this forum makes you look to be a fool.

 

[pditty8811]

The listing contract is signed with a fixed cost (commission) it doesn't matter if there is one or 100 agents involved, the seller pays that set fee. How, or even if it is divided between more than one agent has nothing to do with that listing contract. It is a contract between participating agents.


And double dipping does not necessarily involve a dual agency. I earned the selling agents and the and the listing agent's commission on the same property and have never worked as a dual agent.

I don't know what state you are in, but I explicitly posted I was in WA in the OP.

Here is the laws of a dual agent in WA. It clearly states written consent from all parties:

http://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=18.86.060

"Dual agent—Duties.
(1) Notwithstanding any other provision of this chapter, a broker may act as a dual agent only with the written consent of both parties to the transaction after the dual agent has complied with RCW 18.86.030(1)(f), which consent must include a statement of the terms of compensation."

Are you above the law?

 

[pditty8811]

And again, this clearly states about Compensation:
http://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=18.86.080

"RCW 18.86.080
Compensation.
(1) In any real estate transaction, a firm's compensation may be paid by the seller, the buyer, a third party, or by sharing the compensation between firms.
(2) An agreement to pay or payment of compensation does not establish an agency relationship between the party who paid the compensation and the broker.
(3) A seller may agree that a seller's agent's firm may share with another firm the compensation paid by the seller.
(4) A buyer may agree that a buyer's agent's firm may share with another firm the compensation paid by the buyer.
(5) A firm may be compensated by more than one party for real estate brokerage services in a real estate transaction, if those parties consent in writing at or before the time of signing an offer in the transaction.
(6) A firm may receive compensation based on the purchase price without breaching any duty to the buyer or seller.
(7) Nothing contained in this chapter negates the requirement that an agreement authorizing or employing a broker to sell or purchase real estate for compensation or a commission be in writing and signed by the seller or buyer."

Anything else?

 

[pditty8811]

There is no buyers agent commission listed in any mls listing. It listen a commission (generally a percentage) and how that is split with the selling agent. For some reason you keep making the error that a selling agent is a buyers agent. They aren't. A selling agent is the person who sells the property for the seller. If the buyer hires an agent the fee the buyer pays their agent is determined by the contract between the buyer and his agent.

LOL! What nonsense!

 

[STEPHAN]

You came here convinced you know what you are doing. I understand that you feel we don't.

This is a legal forum. I can't see any legal question.

So, what exactly do you want?

 

[justalayman]

Here, you wanted a contract showing what I am saying. Here is the brokerage fee portion of the contracts from the realtors assoc in my area;


BROKERAGE FEE. Seller agrees to pay Broker a brokerage fee of % of the sales price due and payable if: the property is sold or traded by Broker or by Seller or anyone else during the listing period (including sales pursuant to
options granted or contracts executed during the listing period);
a prospective buyer ready, willing, and able to purchase the property on the terms specified herein or other terms acceptable to Seller is produced by Broker or any licensee or person during the listing period;
or the property is sold within months after expiration of the listing period (including sales pursuant to options granted or contracts executed within that period following expiration) to a buyer who had been shown the property during the listing period by Broker or Seller, or any other individual licensed for real estate sales activities under the Michigan Occupational Code (hereafter “licensee”) or person, except that this provision shall not apply if the property is sold pursuant to a valid listing agreement entered into with another broker subsequent to the expiration of the listing period of this agreement



Notice; the seller owes to the listing broker a fee if the house is sold. Do you see anything in there about any other agent sharing it?

Nope



Here are the sections that deal with other entities that may be involved;

PARTICIPATION IN MLS. Seller agrees that the brokerage fee may be shared by Broker with any cooperating broker who participates in the sale per the following compensation schedule:
Subagent (of the Seller) % of the sale price; Buyer’s Agent % of the sale price; Transaction Coordinator % of the sale price.
Participation in the MLS requires cooperation with at least one type of agency relationship as listed above.
Exceptions:
9. POSSIBILITY OF DUAL AGENCY. If Broker acts as a dual agent, Seller hereby consents to this dual agency and agrees that under such circumstances, the following provisions shall govern Broker’s actions:
a. Broker will not knowingly say anything or do anything which might place one party at a disadvantage, such as disclose
personal confidences;
b. Broker shall assume a role as an intermediary, facilitator, and/or mediator to assist Buyer and Seller; and
c. Broker shall not disclose to Buyer that Seller might accept a price other than the listing price; nor shall Broker disclose to
Seller that Buyer might be willing to pay a higher price.



I have NEVER written a contract allowing for a share to be paid by a buyers agent. If the buyer wants to hire an agent they can pay for it themselves. I have shared the commission with other agents for the seller (subagent of the seller). Do you see anywhwere stating the fee the seller agrees to pay is reduced if there is not a buyers agent or anybody else? Huh? Do you?


I didn't think so.


That is where you are getting screwed up. You think that automatically an agent that shows the house to a buyer is a buyers agent. You obviously do not understand agency. I cannot recall any buyers agents in my area, ever. You have to realize a buyers agent works for buyer. Sellers agents work for the seller. A buyers agent attempts to get the lowest price possible while a sellers agent attempts to get the highest price possible. Dual agencies are possible but they are very difficult to deal with since an agent has a fiduciary duty to the principal. With a dual agent that is nearly impossible to honor.