Contractor built my fence 6"-8" inside of my property line

[kcteachsped]

I am in California. We hired a fence company to install wood fencing on the two sides of our property. On the 78' side, we discovered they installed the fence 6"-8" over from where the original fence (and our property line) was located. They tied into a neighbor's post instead of taking out our old post and installing a new post to tie into (my husband had done the tear down, leaving up the posts at each end of the fence). My husband had specifically showed them the post and told them this was the property line.

There are other issues, too. They (well, essentially one guy - as the owner's 18yo son doesn't usually do anything when he is here) have taken 2 weeks to do 32+78 foot fences and 4 gates (neighbors wanted new gates too), and they are not yet finished. They cannot get the gates right. But this is the coup de grace, essentially giving away my property.

In discussing this with a friend, she told me to ask the contractor for a copy of their "Errors and Omissions" policy, she said that she has to have one as part of her state license. So I then did a search on cslb.ca.gov, and to my dismay, they do not have a contractor's license.

What I want is for them to take down the (not correctly built anyway, and the worker knew there were issues) fence and posts and re-build with the posts on my property line. We paid them $1500 of the $3290 before we discovered this huge error.

Any advice for this situation? We have the office manager (owner's fiancee) coming out tomorrow morning to look at the job at our request (we requested that the owner come out, not sure if he is coming or what the story is on why we haven's seen him since he came out to quote the job).

Thanks for reading, I can't sleep at night thinking about this royal mess.

 

[Zigner]

Do you have a written contract? If so, does it specify the location of the fence?

 

[justalayman]

What has the contractor said when you pointed out their error, which you have already done of course, right?

 

[justalayman]

There are other issues, too. They (well, essentially one guy - as the owner's 18yo son doesn't usually do anything when he is here) have taken 2 weeks to do 32+78 foot fences and 4 gates (neighbors wanted new gates too), and they are



Are you paying them by the hour or is this a contracted price? If a contracted price who cares what the owner's son does or doesn't do? It wouldn't matter if 27 people
Were standing around if you have a hard contract price.

 

[kcteachsped]

Do you have a written contract? If so, does it specify the location of the fence?

No written contract, just a quote and invoice that show the amount of linear feet of fence, gates, and materials to be used. My husband showed the owner the two end 4x4s (that were left in, one end still had a section of fence) that showed where the fence began and ended on the day he came out to bid the job. He also showed the worker before he even started working on it the first day.

 

[kcteachsped]

What has the contractor said when you pointed out their error, which you have already done of course, right?

We finally got the owner to come out today. He had excuses, he said that is the problem with removing the fence ourselves. But when he bid the job, he said it made his job easier.

 

[kcteachsped]

There are other issues, too. They (well, essentially one guy - as the owner's 18yo son doesn't usually do anything when he is here) have taken 2 weeks to do 32+78 foot fences and 4 gates (neighbors wanted new gates too), and they are



Are you paying them by the hour or is this a contracted price? If a contracted price who cares what the owner's son does or doesn't do? It wouldn't matter if 27 people
Were standing around if you have a hard contract price.

This is a contracted price. So I understand what you are saying. The job was started on July 5th, and is not done yet. About 8 and a half days of work, some longer than others, for 110 linear feet of fence and four small gates.

The contractor has to be losing money on labor, but that is not my problem. The quality of the work and loss of use of my property are my problems.

 

[Zigner]

How can you prove that the contractor knew where the property line is and that he didn't build the fence where he was told to build it? (Many folks put their fence a few inches inside the property line so that there is no question of ownership.)

 

[kcteachsped]

Developments of today:

Office manager was supposed to come out on Friday or Monday with the owner to look at the fence. She called today at 9:30 to say they couldn't make it out, but she would send the workers to "wrap things up". My husband told her not to send any workers out until they could come out to look at the fence and talk about the issues. She still sent the workers out about an hour and a half later. We talked to them, the one guy who did most of the work and another one that came out for a bit once, and told them we asked the OM not to send them out. They understood, we had already expressed our concerns to the main worker.

An hour later, the owner and another of his sons shows up. We went over the issues, he made many excuses. He said he would go home and tonight they would discuss what to do. (From what the worker told me, they are pretty much just family in the business.) Today, he said that the location was a problem because my husband took the fence down himself. On the day of the bid, he said it would save him a lot of work.

He loaded up his truck with all the lumber and other materials and tools the workers left behind, but left all of the trash (old fencing, concrete, etc.). My husband doubts they will be back.

Over the weekend, I tried to look them up on cslb, but could not find them by company or owner name. I also could not find a business license for them in our city/county. We went with them on a recommendation from a friend who owns properties and has used them for his rental properties. On the 3rd day of work, our friend called and apologized for recommending them. He had them replace his personal fence, and had a lot of the same issues we are having (not the property line issue, though). He has offered to go to court with us if it goes there.

My husband sells pools, and the owner knows that he can benefit from doing this job right by getting jobs as a subcontractor through his business. He had told his workers this and acknowledged this today as well. If it goes the other way, many things will not go in his favor. (SWIFT report with CSLB will be the first thing I do.)

 

[kcteachsped]

How can you prove that the contractor knew where the property line is and that he didn't build the fence where he was told to build it? (Many folks put their fence a few inches inside the property line so that there is no question of ownership.)

I don't have a recording of the quote being given or the worker being led to and shown the posts that the property line begins and ends with, but I do have a recording of the worker acknowledging that fact today. It is obvious where the posts were before, the neighbor's concrete was poured after the fence was installed 62 years ago. They removed one of the end posts and put a new one several inches over toward our house instead of right where the old one was.

 

[STEPHAN]

I do have a recording of the worker

Did you have this consent to record the conversation? In CA it is illegal to record without the consent of all parties to the conversation.

 

[kcteachsped]

Did you have this consent to record the conversation? In CA it is illegal to record without the consent of all parties to the conversation.

I am aware of that. It was just so that I could listen back and take notes. I would not use it directly.

In the end, the "contractor" is operating without a license. After seeing the degree to which they effed up the job, he decided he was done. He doesn't want any more money, which he stated in a series of text messages with an automatic signature of his company name. CSLB told me to take screen shots of the messages and file a complaint.

(Edit to add that they requested the text messages in addition to pics and other communications, quote, invoice, etc.)

 

[Zigner]

I am aware of that. It was just so that I could listen back and take notes. I would not use it directly.

So, when I asked if you could "PROVE" it, you said yes because of the recording. Then you go on to say in another post that you KNOW you can't use that recording. In other words, you KNOW you can't prove it.

 

[kcteachsped]

So, when I asked if you could "PROVE" it, you said yes because of the recording. Then you go on to say in another post that you KNOW you can't use that recording. In other words, you KNOW you can't prove it.

In essence, we were "proving it" to ourselves. I see where you are going there, and I appreciate it. So, you are right. It is his/their word against ours.

Ultimately, we all lose out in this situation. He has likely paid his workers about 3x more than he should have to do a job that should have taken 2-3 days tops. We have a job has not been completed, and certainly what is done is not to our satisfaction. He does not want the more than half that is left, as I speculate he calculated that how long it will take to take it out in sections and replace it in the correct location. He did admit that things were wrong.

I am just so sorry that I didn't think to check for a license. It's a big lesson learned.

 

[justalayman]

A court could find for you if they saw your argument as more convincing than the contractor. Personally I'd there are still standing posts it would go a long way to supporting your argument.

You can also turn the question back onto the contractor; what proof does he have to support this arbitrary number of 6"-8" offset?

And of course a court could see the damage as de minimus and rule in your favor but the loss not great enought to order it be changed.