Fired over discussing salary with co-workers?

[Natalala]

I don't believe people should be paid the same unless they are equal in skill or position. That is what I've now found is legal.

 

[Taxing Matters]

Whether the NLRB would agree with jal that your questioning the other employees about their pay is protected, is open to debate. While I don't disagree that it could apply, as I recall there were some fairly strictly defined limits as to what was and was not protected and I don't think we have enough information here to say if what you did falls within those limits or not.

It is not just the federal National Labor Relations Act (NLRA), which is enforced by the National Labor Relations Board (NLRB) that the employer may violate by taking retaliatory action against an employee for inquiring about or discussing wages in the company, but as justalayman pointed out, it is also prohibited by Illinois law. An employer takes a great risk in firing an employee for simply asking about and comparing wages, something that in my own experience I can tell you most employers, especially small employers, do not realize.

But this: So out of asking, I would be able to confront the boss, or coworkers who are paid unfairly out of my discussion with them, and ask them why Johnny Doe had no experience and started out higher, or Susie Q has more experience but started out less is in no way protected, is outrageously inappropriate, and I would expect you to be fired on the spot. I can promise you that the NLRB would have no problems whatsoever with that firing.

While I respect your experience in HR, I do not entirely agree with you on this. How the employee engages the boss on salary and wage issues is critical. Some discussions would indeed be protected; others would not. Of course nothing protects an employee for behavior that is rude, offensive, obnoxious, etc. Apart from that, however, the details really do matter.

 

[Natalala]

I don't believe people should be paid the same unless they are equal in skill or position. That is what I've now found is legal.

* That it is legal that: Coworkers are allowed to speak of salary. I will be reporting what happened to the NLRB, IDOL, EEOC, and DOL if appropriate. Even if I don't get anything for myself, maybe I can stand up for the employees and future employees. Thanks everyone.

 

[CTU]

* That it is legal that: Coworkers are allowed to speak of salary. I will be reporting what happened to the NLRB, IDOL, EEOC, and DOL if appropriate. Even if I don't get anything for myself, maybe I can stand up for the employees and future employees. Thanks everyone.

When you get fired, file for unemployment immediately.

 

[LdiJ]

It is not just the federal National Labor Relations Act (NLRA), which is enforced by the National Labor Relations Board (NLRB) that the employer may violate by taking retaliatory action against an employee for inquiring about or discussing wages in the company, but as justalayman pointed out, it is also prohibited by Illinois law. An employer takes a great risk in firing an employee for simply asking about and comparing wages, something that in my own experience I can tell you most employers, especially small employers, do not realize.



While I respect your experience in HR, I do not entirely agree with you on this. How the employee engages the boss on salary and wage issues is critical. Some discussions would indeed be protected; others would not. Of course nothing protects an employee for behavior that is rude, offensive, obnoxious, etc. Apart from that, however, the details really do matter.

This is an interesting discussion. In my entire working lifetime I have never worked anywhere where it was considered appropriate to discuss one's wages with one's co-workers. I am pretty sure that some companies even had written rules about it, while at others it was more of an etiquette situation. Its quite interesting to find out that its something that an employer actually cannot object to.

 

[Taxing Matters]

This is an interesting discussion. In my entire working lifetime I have never worked anywhere where it was considered appropriate to discuss one's wages with one's co-workers. I am pretty sure that some companies even had written rules about it, while at others it was more of an etiquette situation. Its quite interesting to find out that its something that an employer actually cannot object to.

I’m not surprised you weren’t aware the rule existed. Unfortunately too many employers and employees do not know the rule, so a lot of employers end up getting away with having those rules because the employees do not complain. Even a lot of lawyers who do not either practice labor law or practice extensively in federal law don’t know it. Some companies have written rules on it or have unwritten but well known rules against it still today, even though the federal rule isn’t new. Consider the following quote from a 1975 decision of a NLRB administrative law judge hearing a case in which the employee was fired for discussing wages with co-workers in violation of a rule the employer had:

The complaint alleges, and the answer admits, that the Respondent maintains in effect a rule prohibiting employees from discussing wage rates among themselves. I find that this unqualified rule constitutes a clear impediment to, and a restraint upon, employees' Section 7 right to engage in concerted activities for mutual aid and protection concerning an undeniably significant term of employment. Accordingly, I find that the rule violates Section 8(a)(1) of the Act, whether or not the rule is viewed as a matter of company policy, as the Respondent describes it in its brief.​

That decision was upheld on appeal to a three member panel of the NLRB. Jeanette Corporation, 217 NLRB 122. The order of the Board was that the employer had to revoke its rule prohibiting discussion of wages, cease penalizing employees for such discussions, post a notice of its decision in the work place for all employees to see, and the employer had to reinstate the fired employee to her previous position, pay, and benefits without any loss or reduction of seniority, as well as compensate her for the lost wages and other damages suffered as a result of her termination.

 

[justalayman]

Question to taxing matter;

While I was quoting Illinois law which appears to apply to all employers regardless of whether the issue at hand involves union or collective bargaining issues, does not the nlra apply to only union or collective bargaining matters?

 

[cbg]

There is never a time when Employee A complaining about Employee B's salary is appropriate, unless Employee A is Employee B's manager or union steward. Certainly she can talk to the employer about her own salary, but she's talking about coming in and immediately telling the employer that how he is paying OTHER employees is wrong. That is NOT appropriate, under any level of protection.

 

[not2cleverRed]

* That it is legal that: Coworkers are allowed to speak of salary. I will be reporting what happened to the NLRB, IDOL, EEOC, and DOL if appropriate. Even if I don't get anything for myself, maybe I can stand up for the employees and future employees. Thanks everyone.

You see this as being about salary.

Did you consider that your behavior might have made your colleagues uncomfortable? Here they are, doing their job, and this new person comes in, and all she wants to do it talk about money, and how unfair employers are. Maybe they *like* their employer, think the employer is fair enough, and are annoyed by your attitude.

After all, when you asked about pay, no one was willing to talk to you. Yet you are still convinced that you should be working on confronting the employer because of the unfairness of the workplace.

Maybe one or more of your colleagues approached the boss and said something to the effect of, "This new girl has an attitude problem. She's interfering with our work. She's disruptive. Either she goes or we go."

 

[justalayman]

You see this as being about salary.

Did you consider that your behavior might have made your colleagues uncomfortable? Here they are, doing their job, and this new person comes in, and all she wants to do it talk about money, and how unfair employers are. Maybe they *like* their employer, think the employer is fair enough, and are annoyed by your attitude.

After all, when you asked about pay, no one was willing to talk to you. Yet you are still convinced that you should be working on confronting the employer because of the unfairness of the workplace.

Maybe one or more of your colleagues approached the boss and said something to the effect of, "This new girl has an attitude problem. She's interfering with our work. She's disruptive. Either she goes or we go."

I believe that is the consensus of the forum. While I provided law that appears to support a right to discuss wages, it is fairly obvious op's actions have gone well beyond simply discussing wages and their discharge is most likely legal.

 

[Natalala]

I have filed a claim with NLRB. When filing a claim with NLRB, the protected act of employees discussing with eachother about salary, was an already written default option for reason of filing a claim. Will see if NLRB will step in the next year to make sure that those employees have the right that they should have.

 

[justalayman]

I have filed a claim with NLRB. When filing a claim with NLRB, the protected act of employees discussing with eachother about salary, was an already written default option for reason of filing a claim. Will see if NLRB will step in the next year to make sure that those employees have the right that they should have.

A discussion concerning wages with another employee is what is protected (although I do not believe the NLRB covers such discussions unless they are in concert with an intent to unionize but I believe the state law I cited is universally applicable) your statement of confrontation is not protected activity. You can be fired for being disrespectful to your employer whether the discussion is concerning wages or who takes out the garbage.

 

[Taxing Matters]

Question to taxing matter;

While I was quoting Illinois law which appears to apply to all employers regardless of whether the issue at hand involves union or collective bargaining issues, does not the nlra apply to only union or collective bargaining matters?

The NLRA does not just apply to union activity or collective bargaining matters. It applies to any matters in which employees work together to better their working conditions, even when that activity is done informally rather than through the formal vehicle of a union. And that is the aspect of the NLRA that surprises many employers. Exchanging information about significant aspects of their employment is one way employees may work together to better their working conditions. It is not a formal process, but it is still a protected activity since information is important to making decisions about pursuing improvements in working conditions, including decisions about whether to start the process to make the place of employment a union shop.

 

[Taxing Matters]

There is never a time when Employee A complaining about Employee B's salary is appropriate, unless Employee A is Employee B's manager or union steward. Certainly she can talk to the employer about her own salary, but she's talking about coming in and immediately telling the employer that how he is paying OTHER employees is wrong. That is NOT appropriate, under any level of protection.

I disagree. It is not quite that simple. If the employee is having that discussion as the representative of those other employees (and it doesn’t have to be a formal union position) then it would be protected as part of a concerted effort to improve working conditions under the NLRA. If the employee is simply complaining about another person’s wages on her own and not as a part of a concerted effort of both of them to better their working conditions that would not be covered.

 

[drruthless]

Please us let know of the outcome won't you?

.._______________________-
~ When they discover the center of the universe,
a lot of people are disappointed to learn they are not it. ~Bernard Bailey