Can I hold my landlord liable

[JakobOhio]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? OH

I received a 3 day pay to leave premise notice. It stated I did not pay December rent. On Dec 5th, I went to the rental office. Not only did I produce the western union money order, but based on reviews from other people on google, I actually took a short film of me depositing the rent into the rental drop box that clearly showed the money order, my address and the amount. It is time stamped as well (NOV 27 7:42pm)

This rental drop box is inside a building, outside of the rental office. At this current time, the money order has not been cashed.

Instead of calling me like they stated they would with their findings, they proceeded and now I have a scheduled eviction hearing on Dec 14th. I went back to the rental office and the property manager said it is out of his hands, the owner wants to pursue this unless I pay the rent+late fee.

I offered to stop payment on the western union money order and get a new one and pay. They will not accept my money unless I also pay the late fee. in 20 months of living here, I have never been late one single time on rent.

Since I have to take off work for this, can I hold them accountable for any monetary amount since they refuse to accept my video and receipt as proof I paid rent?

 

[HRZ]

MY lay guess as a retired LL in PA..( not OH ) the LL is going to look like a jackass in court and the judge is not going to be impressed with LL at all...BUT it's up to you to be there and well prepared with evidence of timely deposit of correct funds .

I am of the lay view even as LL that timely delivery to Lockbox under control of LL for him to expedite delivery of funds ...is timely delivery ...others may differ ...and in your fact pattern the LL got the funds ..it's not a debate over responsibility for funds stolen from lockbox. BUt it's up to you to show up and make the points..and no you will not recover costs ...your call as to if it's cheaper to pay a fee or use time to go. But remember if you go then LL better be there or lose by default ... and if he sends an attorney that's far from free at his end.

 

[HRZ]

CAUTION ...you might be timely as to paying inside 3 day pay or quit deadline...but still late as to the late period in lease and this owe the late fee....your post was unclear....be sure .

 

[latigo]

...you might be timely as to paying inside 3 day pay or quit deadline...but still late as to the late period in lease and this owe the late fee.... your post was unclear (?)....

After serving up your customary fractured garble you have the brass to tell the OP that his post is UNCLEAR?!

 

[JakobOhio]

CAUTION ...you might be timely as to paying inside 3 day pay or quit deadline...but still late as to the late period in lease and this owe the late fee....your post was unclear....be sure .

to be clear, I paid my December 2017 rent which is due DEC 1 on NOVEMBER 27. I paid 4 days before it was technically due

Yes I will make sure I show up. I understand i have no options if I want to defend myself.

Since I will be forced to show up and defend myself against something that is so inaccurate, I want to hold the landlord to some type of penalty.

 

[Gail in Georgia]

" I want to hold the landlord to some type of penalty"

Unfortunately, you don't get to do that. At this point in time all you will have lost is the time to address the court hearing. And if you attempt to sue for, say, travel time to get to the court the judge will slap that idea down in a skinny minute.

Gail

 

[HRZ]

you paid your rent BEFORE it was due? THe judge may well be annoyed with LL on that one!

IS your landlord incorporated? There are probably limitations on incorporated owners representing themselves in court, raises the LLs costs to use counsel IF such conditions apply . CHeck local court rules IF your owner is incorporated .

 

[FarmerJ]

BTW when you took this video did you get the camera to show it to be the LLs drop box then a close enough pic to show details of the money order like its date , amount , to who it was made out to and your name on it and then the video ending where it shows you clearly putting it in the drop box ? I ask all that because there is a chance that when you offer to let a judge see it then the judge should really see enough detail to be convinced that it was what you say. The big BIG problem with drop boxes is that you do not get a receipt saying you paid anything and drop boxes have been broken into in other places and even I imagine disgruntled staff of rental properties have stolen money orders in order to feed bad habits as well as non staff finding a way to steal from those boxes let alone plain old carelessness and the office losing track of money orders. In the future it may be better for you to mail via confirmed delivery your money orders OR only pay rent when someone is in the office so when you hand them the personal check, or money order they can make out a receipt for you on the spot which would say you gave them a money order or check so then even if they lose it there is no way they can fairly charge a late fee let alone risk looking like horses backside in a court. SO at this point If you are truly that opposed to paying the late fee and LLs legal cost then make sure you show up in court with the full rent and to be safe the late fee and any other money needed just in case only because like it or not until you can show proof that the money order was cashed your rent is unpaid.

 

[justalayman]

I offered to stop payment on the western union money order and get a new one and pay. They will not accept my money unless I also pay the late fee. in 20 months of living here, I have never been late one single time on rent.

Crap happens. Maybe the money order slipped through a crack somewhere. Maybe somebody stole the contents before the landlord retrieve them

The simplest thing to do would be to comply with the demands. Other than that you get to spend time in court. Winning, even with what you have posted, is not a given. Either way you lose the money you lose from time off work.

 

[JakobOhio]

" I want to hold the landlord to some type of penalty"

Unfortunately, you don't get to do that. At this point in time all you will have lost is the time to address the court hearing. And if you attempt to sue for, say, travel time to get to the court the judge will slap that idea down in a skinny minute.

Gail

That is a bummer to hear, but thank you for the information.

you paid your rent BEFORE it was due? THe judge may well be annoyed with LL on that one!

IS your landlord incorporated? There are probably limitations on incorporated owners representing themselves in court, raises the LLs costs to use counsel IF such conditions apply . CHeck local court rules IF your owner is incorporated .

Yes I paid rent before it was due. I always pay rent before it is due (I have my bills timed to pay rent on my 2nd paycheck of the month. Sometimes that is almost 10 days early, but never late). The owner of the property is from NY and pays a property management company here and apparently a lawyer as well.

BTW when you took this video did you get the camera to show it to be the LLs drop box then a close enough pic to show details of the money order like its date , amount , to who it was made out to and your name on it and then the video ending where it shows you clearly putting it in the drop box ? I ask all that because there is a chance that when you offer to let a judge see it then the judge should really see enough detail to be convinced that it was what you say. The big BIG problem with drop boxes is that you do not get a receipt saying you paid anything and drop boxes have been broken into in other places and even I imagine disgruntled staff of rental properties have stolen money orders in order to feed bad habits as well as non staff finding a way to steal from those boxes let alone plain old carelessness and the office losing track of money orders. In the future it may be better for you to mail via confirmed delivery your money orders OR only pay rent when someone is in the office so when you hand them the personal check, or money order they can make out a receipt for you on the spot which would say you gave them a money order or check so then even if they lose it there is no way they can fairly charge a late fee let alone risk looking like horses backside in a court. SO at this point If you are truly that opposed to paying the late fee and LLs legal cost then make sure you show up in court with the full rent and to be safe the late fee and any other money needed just in case only because like it or not until you can show proof that the money order was cashed your rent is unpaid.

Yes, the video has all aspects of this. This property has a reputation of doing this, which is why I always film it. The drop box is inside of a building that has apartments in it. The building is 3 floors and the office is on the bottom floor next to the gym. While the building is not locked like our other ones (residents only), the drop box is not outside. In the film, you see the drop box signage and the front office door. You also can see the money order that shows the amount it was for, the notation of "DEC RENT", and me placing the money order in the drop box

Crap happens. Maybe the money order slipped through a crack somewhere. Maybe somebody stole the contents before the landlord retrieve them

The simplest thing to do would be to comply with the demands. Other than that you get to spend time in court. Winning, even with what you have posted, is not a given. Either way you lose the money you lose from time off work.

I agree, stuff happens. However, it should not be my fiscal responsibility to pay their late fee because THEY lost the money order. If they agreed to waive the late fee, then I would have no problem doing a stop payment on the money order and giving them a new one. However, they won't waive the late fee. I guess it sucks that I have to take a day off to take care of this.

One way or another, they lost a tenant at the end of my lease.

 

[justalayman]

If they actually have not recieved the money order then as far as they are concerned you haven’t paid. It is not their obligation to waive the fee if they believe charging it is valid.

Hopefully you aren’t docked pay when attending court since you’ll lose those earnings when going to court. If the earnings lost exceed the late fee, frugality should step in and guide you.

 

[JakobOhio]

All -

Wanted to give you an update. Not exactly sure what happened or who made the decision, but I received a letter from my apartment complex letting me know that the eviction hearing is being withdrawn. They state I owe no late fees and consider my rent paid on time. They also gave me 50 dollars off next months rent "for my inconvenience"

I will still make the trek down to the courthouse to be on the safe side unless it shows up on the docket as dismissed, but I think they will still be at the court date as well.

I won't use the drop box again

 

[Gail in Georgia]

Glad things seemed to have worked out and that management has realized their mistake.

Gail

 

[JakobOhio]

Another update:

I am SO GLAD that I went to the court like I planned. I looked at the docket online and it didn't show withdrawn so I headed to the courthouse.

The apartment complex had 2 lawyers there (not sure why - think that is normal?) When it came to my turn for a hearing, I presented all the evidence to the judge. Needless to say he was super pissed. He instructed the lawyers to head out into the hallway and "think exactly how you want to proceed when you come back into my courtroom"

Come to find out, the lawyers were just as blindsided as the judge. 1) the property manager never told them about the video 2) the property management company never gave them the copy of my money order stub and 3) they did not even know the property management company sent me the letter telling me not to come and offering me money off

We came back in from the hallway and the lawyers told the judge they did not want to proceed and so the judge dismissed the case. I spoke with the complex lawyers afterwards and they couldn't tell me for sure what would happen - but they did say they would not bring this particular case back to court for the LL. They couldn't guarantee another firm wouldn't, but they stated they will recommend the LL work with me to recover the lost money order/issue a new one, honor my 50 dollars off, and tread lightly going forward on all their cases.

At this point, I am about to head over to the apartment complex and see how they want to handle the money order situation as it still has not been cashed.

 

[Shadowbunny]

Thanks for the latest and greatest (?) on this. Glad to hear it worked out for you -- it's a shame that the LLs do business like that.