Is This Considered Fraud?

[Ramsdale]

What is the name of your state? What is the name of your state? Oregon

Situation: My ex and I were no longer in a relationship at the time of our child's birth. We lived in the same town; we both agreed it was best that I am present for the delivery. She lived with her grandmother and two children at the time. The plan was for her grandmother to call me when she was in labor so I could be there with/for her and the grandmother take care of the two children. Our child was born 3 days past due date; communication was active until the very day of birth. I wasn't notified when she went into labor, received a call from my ex almost 12 hours after he was born. My ex told me that I could come see our child but do NOT attempt to put my name on the birth certificate. I didn't agree to her demand and made my way to the hospital. At the hospital, the receptionist informed me that there was no patient there with her name to try the next nearest hospital. Moments later, her grandmother and two children entered the hospital, making their way through the lobby. The grandmother sees me then puts her head down and paced quickly towards the elevator. I went to the receptionist again, told her that I just saw her family traveling through the lobby. The receptionist called security and I was removed from the hospital.

The following day I obtained and submitted an "Acknowledgement of Paternity" form. The form was obtained and submitted three times in total. There was no follow-through by the government agency after the first and second attempts but on the third attempt, I was informed that the other party denied to volunteer and had the legal right to do so. The next and option were to apply for child support; learned that there is a paternity test involved so I was all in. Through this venue, my ex had to comply. The process was lengthy, paternity was established, I was legally his father. However, when everything became established (after two years) I owed an estimate of $31,000 in debt to the state of Oregon in child support.

Circling back to the question.. Is it considered fraud? My ex knew that I was the father, told the hospital and government that the father was unknown. Can I sue my ex for the damages caused by her dishonesty? Would her actions be considered fraud? If yes, do I get a civil law attorney?

 

[stealth2]

What is the name of your state? What is the name of your state? Oregon

Situation: My ex and I were no longer in a relationship at the time of our child's birth. We lived in the same town; we both agreed it was best that I am present for the delivery. She lived with her grandmother and two children at the time. The plan was for her grandmother to call me when she was in labor so I could be there with/for her and the grandmother take care of the two children. Our child was born 3 days past due date; communication was active until the very day of birth. I wasn't notified when she went into labor, received a call from my ex almost 12 hours after he was born. My ex told me that I could come see our child but do NOT attempt to put my name on the birth certificate. I didn't agree to her demand and made my way to the hospital. At the hospital, the receptionist informed me that there was no patient there with her name to try the next nearest hospital. Moments later, her grandmother and two children entered the hospital, making their way through the lobby. The grandmother sees me then puts her head down and paced quickly towards the elevator. I went to the receptionist again, told her that I just saw her family traveling through the lobby. The receptionist called security and I was removed from the hospital.

The following day I obtained and submitted an "Acknowledgement of Paternity" form. The form was obtained and submitted three times in total. There was no follow-through by the government agency after the first and second attempts but on the third attempt, I was informed that the other party denied to volunteer and had the legal right to do so. The next and option were to apply for child support; learned that there is a paternity test involved so I was all in. Through this venue, my ex had to comply. The process was lengthy, paternity was established, I was legally his father. However, when everything became established (after two years) I owed an estimate of $31,000 in debt to the state of Oregon in child support.

Circling back to the question.. Is it considered fraud? My ex knew that I was the father, told the hospital and government that the father was unknown. Can I sue my ex for the damages caused by her dishonesty? Would her actions be considered fraud? If yes, do I get a civil law attorney?

Nope.

 

[LdiJ]

What is the name of your state? What is the name of your state? Oregon

Situation: My ex and I were no longer in a relationship at the time of our child's birth. We lived in the same town; we both agreed it was best that I am present for the delivery. She lived with her grandmother and two children at the time. The plan was for her grandmother to call me when she was in labor so I could be there with/for her and the grandmother take care of the two children. Our child was born 3 days past due date; communication was active until the very day of birth. I wasn't notified when she went into labor, received a call from my ex almost 12 hours after he was born. My ex told me that I could come see our child but do NOT attempt to put my name on the birth certificate. I didn't agree to her demand and made my way to the hospital. At the hospital, the receptionist informed me that there was no patient there with her name to try the next nearest hospital. Moments later, her grandmother and two children entered the hospital, making their way through the lobby. The grandmother sees me then puts her head down and paced quickly towards the elevator. I went to the receptionist again, told her that I just saw her family traveling through the lobby. The receptionist called security and I was removed from the hospital.

The following day I obtained and submitted an "Acknowledgement of Paternity" form. The form was obtained and submitted three times in total. There was no follow-through by the government agency after the first and second attempts but on the third attempt, I was informed that the other party denied to volunteer and had the legal right to do so. The next and option were to apply for child support; learned that there is a paternity test involved so I was all in. Through this venue, my ex had to comply. The process was lengthy, paternity was established, I was legally his father. However, when everything became established (after two years) I owed an estimate of $31,000 in debt to the state of Oregon in child support.

Circling back to the question.. Is it considered fraud? My ex knew that I was the father, told the hospital and government that the father was unknown. Can I sue my ex for the damages caused by her dishonesty? Would her actions be considered fraud? If yes, do I get a civil law attorney?

No, it was not fraud of any kind. You attempting to file an AOP without the consent of the mother was totally inappropriate but obviously you didn't know that, so it was just a mistake on your part. You also didn't need to file to establish child support, you could have just filed to establish paternity and child support could have followed that. I think that things would have turned out differently if you had hired an attorney. I know you felt that your ex was dishonest, but its really not dishonest to want things to go through the formal process.

 

[stealth2]

My ex knew that I was the father, told the hospital and government that the father was unknown.

I'm assuming that you believe that *this* is the crux of your contention of fraud on her part. However, you'd be mistaken. You really had no way of knowing whether or not someone else could have been the father. Additionally, since you were not married at the time of birth, you had no legal rights wrt the child.

At this point, for the sake of your child, you'd be well advised to find a way to put the past behind you and focus on your relationship with your child - otherwise you will have a very long 16 years ahead of you.

 

[commentator]

Are you maintaining that if you had been accepted as the father of the child two years ago when he was born, you would NOT owe child support from the beginning of his life? The money you owe for the support of the child is not "damages caused by her dishonesty."

"we both agreed it was best that I am present for the delivery." Reading the rest of your post, it doesn't sound like she was in any kind of agreement of the sort, and your insistence on being present for the delivery sounds incredibly intrusive. This is a situation where "her body, her choice" is really paramount, and from the sound of it, you were not willing to honor that at all. It's not too surprising that it turned out she did not want you to have any part in the event, and your participation was not mandated by anything but your wants. You don't know that she was being "dishonest" either.

 

[Ramsdale]

No, it was not fraud of any kind. You attempting to file an AOP without the consent of the mother was totally inappropriate but obviously you didn't know that, so it was just a mistake on your part. You also didn't need to file to establish child support, you could have just filed to establish paternity and child support could have followed that. I think that things would have turned out differently if you had hired an attorney. I know you felt that your ex was dishonest, but its really not dishonest to want things to go through the formal process.

My ex did not communicate with me since the phone call on the day of our child's birth. Communication prior to that day was actually efficient and positive. For the record, we were together for three years, lived together for two of the three years. We separated two months into the pregnancy for religious reasons. Me filing for AOP was my attempt to establish something legally with our child. There's no handbook for these situations, I was hurt and had no guidance through this situation. I simply did what made sense at the time. As far as child support.. I am 100% okay with paying child support. The issue with that is that when child support was established the arrears destroyed my credit which carried over to my quality of life. If paternity was established at the time of birth I would've been paying child support and the medical bills from the beginning which wouldn't have affected my credit.

 

[stealth2]

My ex did not communicate with me since the phone call on the day of our child's birth. Communication prior to that day was actually efficient and positive. For the record, we were together for three years, lived together for two of the three years. We separated two months into the pregnancy for religious reasons. Me filing for AOP was my attempt to establish something legally with our child. There's no handbook for these situations, I was hurt and had no guidance through this situation. I simply did what made sense at the time. As far as child support.. I am 100% okay with paying child support. The issue with that is that when child support was established the arrears destroyed my credit which carried over to my quality of life. If paternity was established at the time of birth I would've been paying child support and the medical bills from the beginning which wouldn't have affected my credit.

Again - there is no way that YOU could know if you were actually the father w/o a paternity test. Really.

 

[Ramsdale]

Are you maintaining that if you had been accepted as the father of the child two years ago when he was born, you would NOT owe child support from the beginning of his life? The money you owe for the support of the child is not "damages caused by her dishonesty."

"we both agreed it was best that I am present for the delivery." Reading the rest of your post, it doesn't sound like she was in any kind of agreement of the sort, and your insistence on being present for the delivery sounds incredibly intrusive. This is a situation where "her body, her choice" is really paramount, and from the sound of it, you were not willing to honor that at all. It's not too surprising that it turned out she did not want you to have any part in the event, and your participation was not mandated by anything but your wants. You don't know that she was being "dishonest" either.

My ex wasn't some woman I had convenient sexual relations with. We lived together for a couple of years, she had two young boys prior to our own child whom I built relationship with and loved after their father abandoned them. As I stated in a previous comment reply, our communication prior to our child's day of birth was positive and efficient. Everything that happened on that day was a surprise. To note something personal.. I grew up with a mother that neglected me and my well-being, and I never met my father. My perspective of being in our child's life is different from hers and most because of what I experienced as a child. I didn't and don't want my child to ever feel that they don't have a father in their life. It was very important that I was present to be there because my father wasn't for me. It's very important that our child has both of us in their life. My ex knows how I felt about that, it hurt that I wasn't there. I'm not disagreeing with what you're saying at all. I just hope that whoever reads my post and replies knows that I'm not a control freak that intentionally intrudes and oversteps boundaries. Our child's day of birth was discussed, organized and agreed upon.. prior.. "we" had a plan.

 

[Ramsdale]

Again - there is no way that YOU could know if you were actually the father w/o a paternity test. Really.

I understand and agree. Prior to our child's birth, during that time, a paternity test wasn't mandatory.. establishing legal relations with our child was. I never suspected her to cheat or sleep around, she respected herself in that way. This was 7 years ago, so much has happened, so much has been learned.

 

[stealth2]

My ex wasn't some woman I had convenient sexual relations with. We lived together for a couple of years, she had two young boys prior to our own child whom I built relationship with and loved after their father abandoned them. As I stated in a previous comment reply, our communication prior to our child's day of birth was positive and efficient. Everything that happened on that day was a surprise. To note something personal.. I grew up with a mother that neglected me and my well-being, and I never met my father. My perspective of being in our child's life is different from hers and most because of what I experienced as a child. I didn't and don't want my child to ever feel that they don't have a father in their life. It was very important that I was present to be there because my father wasn't for me. It's very important that our child has both of us in their life. My ex knows how I felt about that, it hurt that I wasn't there. I'm not disagreeing with what you're saying at all. I just hope that whoever reads my post and replies knows that I'm not a control freak that intentionally intrudes and oversteps boundaries. Our child's day of birth was discussed, organized and agreed upon.. prior.. "we" had a plan.

And she had every right to change her mind about "the plan"... Even if you were married, she could have barred you from the labor room.

I understand and agree. Prior to our child's birth, during that time, a paternity test wasn't mandatory.. establishing legal relations with our child was. I never suspected her to cheat or sleep around, she respected herself in that way. This was 7 years ago, so much has happened, so much has been learned.

And still - none of that matters. So wait - the child is now seven? Five?

 

[Ramsdale]

And she had every right to change her mind about "the plan"... Even if you were married, she could have barred you from the labor room.

And still - none of that matters. So wait - the child is now seven? Five?

Our child is 7, and pretty awesome

 

[LdiJ]

Our child is 7, and pretty awesome

Then this question is only about money?

 

[Ramsdale]

Then this question is only about money?

Mostly, yes. Learned that I am an intrusive bad guy in the process. I've paid off the $31,000 debt a year ago last week. It's been bugging me.. I've always thought that it was illegal to knowingly withhold information from the government.

 

[stealth2]

Mostly, yes. Learned that I am an intrusive bad guy in the process. I've paid off the $31,000 debt a year ago last week. It's been bugging me.. I've always thought that it was illegal to knowingly withhold information from the government.

But until paternity was proven, she wasn't withholding anything. And, frankly, even if it were fraud? The statute of limitations would likely have passed...

 

[Just Blue]

Mostly, yes. Learned that I am an intrusive bad guy in the process. I've paid off the $31,000 debt a year ago last week. It's been bugging me.. I've always thought that it was illegal to knowingly withhold information from the government.

For whatever reason your ex, at that time, didn't want to establish you as the father. Considering that 7 years later you are still brewing about it...I can understand why. I strongly advise that you let it go. It's never good for a child to have such animosity exist between his parents.