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Is there a way to tell an employee they smell and need to work on their hygiene?

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cbg

I'm a Northern Girl
My statement that it is not a legal issue is based on that one "can" legally fire someone for not exercising proper hygiene, unless there is a an employment or union contract of some kind. However, the manager does need to explain the problem to the employee and give them time to improve, and then I do not believe there would a legal problem for firing them if they did not improve their hygiene (or fix any other problem). My opinion is based on having been a manager in several large corporations where they have very strict rules for firing an employee.

As far a getting advice on how to talk to the employee in a sensitive way, there are probably better people to ask than a bunch of lawyers or would-be lawyers, who probably are not experts in that subject.

I guess that lawyers think everything is "potentially" a legal issue and that we should pay them $400 per hour for advice on everything.

I am not a lawyer and have never claimed to be one. However, I am a long time HR professional and have dealt with this issue directly. No one advised him to fire the employee - he said he didn't want to do that and I agree there's no reason to.
 


quincy

Senior Member
My recommendation is that you discuss this matter in private with the employee.

One poster (Mark_A) suggested: “Maybe make a joke about it.” Don’t do that. The odor, especially if it has been noticed recently, could be related to a health issue. Health issues are rarely funny and jokes can be insensitive, insulting and/or unappreciated.

From a different perspective, I once had an employee who was allergic to a wide assortment of smells - some which could be eliminated easily from the workplace and others which couldn’t. There was nothing funny about her allergic reactions. She was a valuable employee and we found a satisfactory solution (a separate workspace) and we instituted a “no scent” policy to limit cologne and perfume use.

Finding a solution should be your goal if, as you said, you don’t want to fire her.

I agree with others here that “cbg” is one of the best members of this forum to listen to because of her experience.
 

not2cleverRed

Obvious Observer
I am her boss and one of the owners.

Since she has been there for years, and this is your main complaint about her work, and it's a recent problem, it's worth it to schedule a meaning with her to bring up the subject delicately. Be polite and factual, as cbg suggested.

It may be some stupid fad she's taken up, not realizing the stinky consequences.

My Dad was a fan of raw garlic for a while. He was dinged on his performance review, citing his coworkers finding the garlic odor. (Riding a bike 12 miles to work in good weather probably didn't help. ) He changed his eating habits.

Good luck!
 

Mark_A

Active Member
Do you see a bunch of words in the portion of your post that I quoted which are italicized? I'll make it easier and bold them as well.
OK, I read the stuff at the bottom of each page. Can you please explain what I did wrong (or said something wrong) in your opinion? Please be specific because I need stuff explained to me, and prefer to not play guessing games.
 

Mark_A

Active Member
My recommendation is that you discuss this matter in private with the employee.

One poster (Mark_A) suggested: “Maybe make a joke about it.” Don’t do that. The odor, especially if it has been noticed recently, could be related to a health issue. Health issues are rarely funny and jokes can be insensitive, insulting and/or unappreciated.
The OP said "... she is the only other office worker. The others are in the field" so I am pretty sure it would be in private.

When I said make a joke about it, I would ask her something like "are you trying to save money but not taking a shower anymore?" I don't find that insensitive or insulting. So please tell us your suggested opening line to the employee, I would really like to hear it.
 

quincy

Senior Member
OK, I read the stuff at the bottom of each page. Can you please explain what I did wrong (or said something wrong) in your opinion? Please be specific because I need stuff explained to me, and prefer to not play guessing games.
Some of the members of this forum are lawyers but the majority of members are not lawyers or in law school or have any desire to be lawyers or attend law school.

… When I said make a joke about it, I would ask her something like "are you trying to save money but not taking a shower anymore?" I don't find that insensitive or insulting. So please tell us your suggested opening line to the employee, I would really like to hear it.
I would find that insulting and not at all funny.
 

Mark_A

Active Member
Some of the members of this forum are lawyers but the majority of members are not lawyers or in law school or have any desire to be lawyers or attend law school.
I said lawyers (I agree not many) or would-be lawyers. Yes, I know very few (if any) on this forum are attorneys actively practicing law. By "would-be lawyers" I meant we want give legal help as amateurs without having to go to law school and pass the bar. I didn't mean that we intend to go to law schools and pass the bar. Of course it is illegal to practice law without a license, so that is a delicate subject, and I know a bunch of lawyers and if they had their way they would lock us all up jail for practicing law without a license.

I would find that insulting and not at all funny.
I wouldn't find that insulting. For one thing, asking a question is always less threatening or insulting. She may have some reason why she is not taking a shower very often, and that would provide an opportunity for her to explain it.

Please tell us your exact opening line to the employee.
 

mart33n

Member
The OP said "... she is the only other office worker. The others are in the field" so I am pretty sure it would be in private.

When I said make a joke about it, I would ask her something like "are you trying to save money but not taking a shower anymore?" I don't find that insensitive or insulting. So please tell us your suggested opening line to the employee, I would really like to hear it.
I'm certainly not the expert about these things which is why I asked about this in the first place, but I feel like that "joke" is or is at least on the verge of workplace bullying. So I'm definitely not going to do anything like that.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
I'm certainly not the expert about these things which is why I asked about this in the first place, but I feel like that "joke" is or is at least on the verge of workplace bullying. So I'm definitely not going to do anything like that.

I certainly would not recommend taking that approach either!
 

Mark_A

Active Member
I'm certainly not the expert about these things which is why I asked about this in the first place, but I feel like that "joke" is or is at least on the verge of workplace bullying. So I'm definitely not going to do anything like that.
I guess it depends on what kind of relationship you have with your employee. In most places I have worked, close friends make jokes like that to each other all the time, and no one every took it as bullying, but I don't live in the People's Republic of California. Maybe the word "joke" was not correct, but I don't see what is wrong with asking her why she is not taking a shower very often anymore. I would really like to hear what you end up saying to her as your opening line. My feeling is that if you start out the conversation too serious, she might feel threatened and get very defensive and freak out.
 

Mark_A

Active Member
I am not a lawyer and have never claimed to be one. However, I am a long time HR professional and have dealt with this issue directly. No one advised him to fire the employee - he said he didn't want to do that and I agree there's no reason to.
When did I say anyone advised that the employee should be fired?. The legal question was whether the employee can sue the employer "if" they did get fired. So I am pretty sure that the employer is "considering" letting her go as a possibility, which explains why they posted this question on a legal forum.
 

mart33n

Member
I guess it depends on what kind of relationship you have with your employee. In most places I have worked, close friends make jokes like that to each other all the time, and no one every took it as bullying, but I don't live in the People's Republic of California. Maybe the word "joke" was not correct, but I don't see what is wrong with asking her why she is not taking a shower very often anymore. I would really like to hear what you end up saying to her as your opening line. My feeling is that if you start out the conversation too serious, she might feel threatened and get very defensive and freak out.
I am friendly with my employees, but I am not their friend.
 
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