A Dad who won custody..Imagine that...??? about CS

[tommygunz01]

What is the name of your state? TEXAS

Haven't posted here in awhile but figured this is the best place on the net to have a family law question intelligently answered and thus here I am:

First off, if one wanted to check a quick background of my situation, I guess the best way to do it would be to click my name Tommygunz and you'll see what the story was when I first wrote about this last April. If no one wants to do that, real quickly, my ex was proven to be and still is a prostitute. I was able to accumulate factual "black and white" evidence on her activities and just recently the judge not only gave me full physical custody(we still have joint legal), he also gave me the go ahead to do a relocation about an hour away from where the ex lives, with my 3 boys and my future wife, into a home that is presently under construction and which will be completed in around 3-4 months.

So, certainly a big relief here in the Tommygunz household that the judge made such a solid decision as my family and I can pretty much move on with the rest of our lives and not have to deal all too much with the stress and all the evil that the ex has put all of us through since the time this custody battle began about a year and a half ago.

There are still a few minor details left before this is all concluded(like the divorce to be finalized and the equitable distribution of the proceeds of the marital home we once shared together before she left 5 years ago to be with her now deceased boyfriend that she was cheating with before her prostitution activities began, but for the most part my attorney and her attorney are pretty much on the same page now that the all-important custody matter is resolved.

Now with that being said, I do have a question for anyone who might have an opinion on this: Seeing that the "Jerry Springer" part of this battle is for the most part over and the boys are safe and sound and with me, even though I make a nice enough income(around 100k gross per year), can I still, or rather, should I attempt to get child support? Or is that overdoing it? For around 3 months or so, I was forced to, believe it or not, pay CS to her($1000 per month) even though we shared joint custody while the matter was being decided and even though my attorney by using the evidence we had on her, was able to convince the support master at the time, that my ex was generating something along the lines of $70K per year from her illegal activities.

If I do decide to go for CS, would that precedent that was set a few months ago in establishing her income, be used again and this time, I would get CS seeing I now have the boys full-time?. I dunno, maybe I should just stop here and not even bother going for CS seeing this has never ever been about the money for me as to why I have fought for custody of the boys. She was simply a horrible mom and I would have been remiss in my fatherly duties, if I would have just allowed her to become a prostitute withought protecting my kids.

But, on the other hand, for all the evil she put my whole family through during this whole process and seeing the only thing she is all about is money, maybe I should go this route as I know her paying me for CS would probably effect her more than even her having lost custody.....go figure I know.

Also, if I did go for CS, do y'all think I'd even be awarded some. And if so, its not like my ex's income is "on the books", how could it even be enforced anyways?

Anyways, sorry for the longwidedness and thanks in advance for any replies I may recieve....cheers

-Tommy

 

[stealth2]

Well..... it's really a toss-up in many ways. Certainly, both of you are responsible for supporting the kids - and as the NCP she should be held to her share of that. I guess what I'd weigh if I were in your shoes (and this is gender-neutral) is whether she currently has been awarded visitation (you don't say anything about it) - and if not, whether filing for CS would be worth the risk of her filing for it.

That's really a question only you can answer.

 

[tommygunz01]

Well..... it's really a toss-up in many ways. Certainly, both of you are responsible for supporting the kids - and as the NCP she should be held to her share of that. I guess what I'd weigh if I were in your shoes (and this is gender-neutral) is whether she currently has been awarded visitation (you don't say anything about it) - and if not, whether filing for CS would be worth the risk of her filing for it.

That's really a question only you can answer.

I'm sorry Stealth....you are right, I forgot to mention, her role as NCP. She was awarded 2 weekends a month(1rst and 3rd of any month) whereas I obviously have them the kids the rest of the time. So, I'm thinking that seeing I have the boys 25 or so days a month vs her 4 days or something like that, one would have to believe that I should be awarded something from the courts.....right? Like I stated earlier, this is not about the money, though I will admit that having the boys full-time has put a bit of a strain on the household finances, so it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world if I were able to receive....I dunno....$4-500 per month at minimum for 3 healthy boys. Is that asking for so much especially considering my atorney and I both believe that the $75K per annual my ex earns, is likely on the low side and she likely makes as much I do.

I dunno, I guess I'm wondering will the court look at this objectivly or will they say "the Dad just got custody of the kids and they are safe and sound"....that's good enough. And to award CS to him based on illegal activities is a bit of stretch.......you follow where I'm going here?. I do'nt want to look like I'm being greedy or nothing by asking for CS though I'm quite positive if it the shoe were on the other foot and I was the one doing illegal activities, the court would have likely no problemo taking me to the cleaners as far as CS is concerned. Maybe I'm being a by cynical here but you get my drift......right?

-Tommy

 

[stealth2]

Well, I'll tell you what I'd do. Your boys have two parents, both of whom are responsible for making sure that they are provided for. Okay, one has a, uh, profession of questionable legality. However, it is safe to assume that, were she not to pursue that line of work, she'd be capable of earning SOME income. I would file for support, at the very least, based on an imputed income that she would be capable of earning legitimately. Even if that amounts to minimum wage.

You seem to feel that you don't really *need* the money, and that's fine. But she should be held accountable, and you can always use that money for "fun money". Save it up and take them away for a weekend. Use it to pay for extracurricular expenses. Use it for dinners out X number of times a month.

 

[tommygunz01]

Well, I'll tell you what I'd do. Your boys have two parents, both of whom are responsible for making sure that they are provided for. Okay, one has a, uh, profession of questionable legality. However, it is safe to assume that, were she not to pursue that line of work, she'd be capable of earning SOME income. I would file for support, at the very least, based on an imputed income that she would be capable of earning legitimately. Even if that amounts to minimum wage.

You seem to feel that you don't really *need* the money, and that's fine. But she should be held accountable, and you can always use that money for "fun money". Save it up and take them away for a weekend. Use it to pay for extracurricular expenses. Use it for dinners out X number of times a month.

Thanks for the input Stealth. But let me make this a bit more clear, it not like I couldn't use the CS as like I stated earlier, finances have tightened quite a bit since I won the interim custody order 3 months ago and have had the boys full-time. So, certainly some decent CS wouldn't hurt. I'm just wondering if the support master, will, as she did 6 months ago, when she ordered me to pay temporary support and we established the ex's income at $70k, if she'll do it again. Cause if she does, I would think that with me having 3 kids full-time and her income being what it is, I might be given maybe 800 to 1000 per month......right?

That would be a huge help and like I stated earlier as well, its not like this woman didn't do some of the most evil things when she found out I was going for custody(she tried to get me fired from my job by calling my boss and fraudently posing as a customer of mine claiming abuse....etc or lying and telling my kids that "Daddy is a drug addict"....etc. So, I'd be lying if I didn't state that getting CS from her wouldn't be some sweet retribution besides the help it would be financially.

Am I normal for feeling these kinds of thoughts? Or is it evil of me for attempting to get CS?....I dunno, I just want this all to go away and we are almost there, as this truly has been an emotionally draining period in not just mine, but all of the people who love the boys lives......

Thanks again Stealth.....does anyone else have any thoughts on my situation...eh?

-Tommy

 

[hotpants]

Tommy - i have a somewhat similiar case - she is an adult movie person - can you tell me more about how and what type of things to obtain to go infront of the judge - noone knew she was doing this except her boyfriend - and he has major bank. the only rason she is with him - we have one film so far and the advertisement for it. but what else can we do - the boy has had a really hard life being moved from guy to guy to guys houses - he loves his mom but she really isnt teaching him anything but how to use people - we have been battling for custody for about 8 years now?? any pointers would really help. the courts seem to be more for the women instead of the children _ mind you I am the boys step mom and I really dont beleive in the way the system is set up- my ex and I work things out - the child is 50 mine and 50 his and we get along for him. not tlike my husband and his ex

thanks in advance
Hotpants

 

[casa]

Thanks for the input Stealth. But let me make this a bit more clear, it not like I couldn't use the CS as like I stated earlier, finances have tightened quite a bit since I won the interim custody order 3 months ago and have had the boys full-time. So, certainly some decent CS wouldn't hurt. I'm just wondering if the support master, will, as she did 6 months ago, when she ordered me to pay temporary support and we established the ex's income at $70k, if she'll do it again. Cause if she does, I would think that with me having 3 kids full-time and her income being what it is, I might be given maybe 800 to 1000 per month......right?

That would be a huge help and like I stated earlier as well, its not like this woman didn't do some of the most evil things when she found out I was going for custody(she tried to get me fired from my job by calling my boss and fraudently posing as a customer of mine claiming abuse....etc or lying and telling my kids that "Daddy is a drug addict"....etc. So, I'd be lying if I didn't state that getting CS from her wouldn't be some sweet retribution besides the help it would be financially.

Am I normal for feeling these kinds of thoughts? Or is it evil of me for attempting to get CS?....I dunno, I just want this all to go away and we are almost there, as this truly has been an emotionally draining period in not just mine, but all of the people who love the boys lives......

Thanks again Stealth.....does anyone else have any thoughts on my situation...eh?

-Tommy

Every case is up to the judge to decide~ However in an actual child support case (Not custody, where there can be 'estimates') it typically boils down to what you can prove she makes. When filing for support the courts require both parties to disclose their income in order to compute support amounts. If you feel she is being dishonest re; her income- talk to your attorney about subpoena' her bank records.

I agree with Stealth~ Whether she pays $5 a month or $1,000 a month...it's the point that you are both obligated to support the children. She will get credit for the amount of time she has the children, which isn't very much.

 

[tommygunz01]

Not 100% sure as to what your question is or if I truly understand your situation. What I can ascertain from what you have asked is this:

-I was able to via the internet, view and print out her actual website which had pics of her in various provocative clothing. The website mentioned how much she charged for her "companionship"($300 per hour which helped us establish how much she earns per year).

-She advertised her "services" on numeous other websites which I easily found and printed out for evidence. And "reviews" of her that were done by clients that she evidently "serviced" that had dates,times and places and descriptions were available to publicly be viewed as well. This was signicant because it showed she was activley working her trade and that she or her attorney couldn't deny what she was doing or that she supposedly had "retired".

-And most sigificantly, at least according to my attorney it was, I was able to find "forums" where she in her own words, expressed her views,opinions on numerous different subjects regarding prostitution and so she was unable to convince any judge, once he saw these printed out examples with her own printed words on it, that she was only a "dinner companion" and that sex wasn't what she was providing.

So, in essence, my ex basically cooked herself as the evidence of her activities were readilly accessable on public internet sites. This doesn't even count into the equation her abysmal mothering skills to the boys(ie...teaching them to lie to Daddy and others when neccessary, extremly poor hygene, missing days in school when she had them...etc...all of which I was able to prove)... I don't know if that helps you or if this is what you were asking Hotpants, but that's, how I was able to prove her unfitness as a parent...

-Tommy

Tommy - i have a somewhat similiar case - she is an adult movie person - can you tell me more about how and what type of things to obtain to go infront of the judge - noone knew she was doing this except her boyfriend - and he has major bank. the only rason she is with him - we have one film so far and the advertisement for it. but what else can we do - the boy has had a really hard life being moved from guy to guy to guys houses - he loves his mom but she really isnt teaching him anything but how to use people - we have been battling for custody for about 8 years now?? any pointers would really help. the courts seem to be more for the women instead of the children _ mind you I am the boys step mom and I really dont beleive in the way the system is set up- my ex and I work things out - the child is 50 mine and 50 his and we get along for him. not tlike my husband and his ex

thanks in advance
Hotpants

 

[Ambr]

I was under the impression that when a judge makes a custody ruling that child support and visitation kind of went hand and hand with it.

If your ex doesn't have anything on the books for income, an income could be calculated for someone with her education and work experience - what she is capable of making regardless if she is working a legit job or not. Some states have a "bare minimum" of support for kids. I think ARs is like $100 per child, but don't know if TX has anything similiar or not. Would be worth checking into.

In all honesty, it doesn't sound like she would pay it even if it was ordered. But we should all give her the benefit of the doubt. Even if you don't need it - stick it into an account set up with the kids. Let them use it for school expenses, to buy their first car, a graduation present - whatever they want at a later date.

 

[tommygunz01]

Every case is up to the judge to decide~ However in an actual child support case (Not custody, where there can be 'estimates') it typically boils down to what you can prove she makes. When filing for support the courts require both parties to disclose their income in order to compute support amounts. If you feel she is being dishonest re; her income- talk to your attorney about subpoena' her bank records.

I agree with Stealth~ Whether she pays $5 a month or $1,000 a month...it's the point that you are both obligated to support the children. She will get credit for the amount of time she has the children, which isn't very much.

Funny thing is....actually its not so funny, but my ex's credit not suprisingly due to her irresponsible life, is shot to hell and she can't even get a checking account. So, whether I'm awarded $5.00 or $1,000, I don't even see anyway I could even get CS enforced as how can the court enforce CS if one doesn't have a legitimate employer to attach wages to like the court did to me for a few months when my company deducted CS or if one doesn't have a bank account for any garnisment to occur. Or maybe I'm missing something and CS can still be enforced....Thanks for the reply Casa

-Tommy

 

[tommygunz01]

Thanks for the insight Ambr and that's likely would I would do....put any CS I received into an account for the boys for use later on. But like you eluded to, I have a feeling she won't even respond to any CS judgement and so she'll likely not pay a dime which would be a shame but unfortuanatly what I see occuring.

BTW: Could she go to jail if she didn't pay CS or is that not likely in Texas for a mother who ends up being a "deadbeat".....eh?

-Tommy

I was under the impression that when a judge makes a custody ruling that child support and visitation kind of went hand and hand with it.

If your ex doesn't have anything on the books for income, an income could be calculated for someone with her education and work experience - what she is capable of making regardless if she is working a legit job or not. Some states have a "bare minimum" of support for kids. I think ARs is like $100 per child, but don't know if TX has anything similiar or not. Would be worth checking into.

In all honesty, it doesn't sound like she would pay it even if it was ordered. But we should all give her the benefit of the doubt. Even if you don't need it - stick it into an account set up with the kids. Let them use it for school expenses, to buy their first car, a graduation present - whatever they want at a later date.

 

[Ambr]

Does Texas have the equivalent to a Child Support Enforcement Unit or Payment Center?

I know the cases they are establishing now, they more or less took the payment process out of the hands of the parents. No more, I paid it, no you didn't arguements. It is court ordered through a state run payment processing unit.

Would assume.......(you know how dangerous that is, right?)

That is CS is ordered and she fails to pay it, that she could / would be pursued for non-support. One scenario could be, the NCP goes before the judge gets the shame on you speech and is then given probation, along with a payment plan outlining current support + an arrearage amount that is due each month. If they miss a payment, could revoke their probation and they could end up serving jail time for it. Believe it or not, have heard of several (and I actually hate the phrase "dead beat") non-supportive mom cs cases. Actually know of one mom that went to jail for it. Was placed on 1 year probation with SES. Failed to make payments, probation violated, mom served time. She was sented to the year jail time, county jail. Served 2 months and was released. She hasn't missed a payment since, or so I have heard.

 

[hotpants]

thankyou for the information - i have aquired an adult movie and a magazine advertising - I know she goes to Las Vegas alot - but I dont know what web sites or where to even start looking- I appreciate your help- in your case I would go after the mother for the boys support. in the end it is the children that win the fights we battle against these non responsible parents. Fight for your childrens right.

 

[chatkat]

her paying me for CS would probably effect her more than even her having lost custody.....

Tommy

I live in Texas and I know that the minimum in our state is $150.00 and that is for the unemployed. I also know that the courts require payments be made through the state, if the payments are not through the state then they assume you haven't paid. The state will not go after someone on their own, you have to tell them you are not receiving support before they will act. Texas has added many laws concerning CS. If you don't pay your child support, it will be reported negatively on your credit, you will loose your drivers license and then of course there is jail time.

I would like to say something about a comment that you made in your first post.

know her paying me for CS would probably effect her more than even her having lost custody.....

You sound like my ex when you said that and it hit a nerve. My ex complained about paying child support for years. If I had ever taken him back to court I could have had it doubled or possibly even trippled. he was paying me $300.00 a month. I never threatened him with court...Never... He was constantly telling me that the only reason I wanted my daughter was for the money. He told me and my duaghter that I would never let her go live with him becuase I wouldn't give up the money. On April 11 2004 my 14 1/2 yo daughter who was grounded at home for a bad report card came home from her weekend of slumber parties and friends at her dads with a new cell phone. She was told that because of her bad grades I would probably take the phone away from her. Which I didn't because I knew the game he was playing. Well 4 days later my daughter told me that she wanted to go live with her dad. My daughter said my dad doesn't want any CS, and he will keep paying you if you want cause he knows you need the money. I told her, I have always said that having you has nothing to do with the money. If you want to go live with your dad then you are free to do so. My ex and I agreed that there would be no child support paid to either of us. Within 2 months of my daughter being in their home, my ex had already filed for a change in custody and child support. Story told, I not only lost the CS I was receiving Now I'm paying it. I took a double hit and he got double the money back into his home. My husband and I will be meeting with an attorney to file bankruptcy in March. Keep in mind that if your ex has a stable life it is not like she can change everything she has done to provide for your children all this time. My house note did not go down because my daughter moved out, and i have lived in my home for 11 years, I should have to sell because of this? I built my life around having my daughter and I can't just up and sell my home and move into a one bedroom because she decided not to live here anymore. I know that I have loved my daughter more then anyone could ever imagine, but there are some who could say

her paying for CS would probably effect her more than even her having lost custody.....

That is so far from the truth but having to pay child support on top of loosing custody has caused more emotional and financial stress in my life then any one should ever have to deal with. Don't operate out of vengeance if you truley need the money then go based on that.
Let me add before I get a bunch critcism, I live in a 60,000 home and my ex lives in a 200,000.00 + home. He had that home while he paid CS so obviously he makes much more then I do. I also know that filing Bankruptcy wont stop CS, we are having to get rid of dept to pay the support.

Sorry so long and for venting
Chat

 

[tommygunz01]

Thanks for the reply Chat and I truly do empathize with your situation as it appears you were "hood winked" so to speak. I think in my case it really is a totally different situation and I apologize if one or two of my comments hit a nerve in you. You seem like the total opposite of my ex-wife and what occured to you truly is a shame as I can sense by your words how much you love your daughter and that it wasn't about the money as far as you taking custody of her.

I cannot however say the same thing about my ex. She was the one who decided to "check out" so to speak 6 years ago when she met another man whom she thought she "loved". I convinced her to leave the marital home and despite how hurt I was by her cheating, I told her I was willing to support her financially for the first year only so she could get a career going for herself and so we could both move on with our lives with us having joint custody of the boys. Well, little did I know, the career path she chose was in illegal one and certainly not one that would be condusive to being a good Mom that's for sure, as her lifestyle she was leading simply wouldn't allow it.

Due to my having made alot of money in the preceding years before I convinced her to move out, an attorney I sought out, told me off the record that if I were smart, I would "keep the peace" so to speak, so as to make sure she didn't take me to the cleaners where she likely would have recieved something along the lines of $2500-$3000 per month. Anyways, I did take the advice and when I subsequently found out about her prostitution activities, I had to garner evidence of this and so I had to "deal with it" the best I could and despite how detestful I felt it was. She really ended up becoming very evil and did alot of horrible things over the past few years to me but it was the horrific mothering to the boys that really is what made me sad and why I feel that it was absolutaly the right decision for me to go thru all the emotional travails I went thru, in order for those boys to grow up in safe, secure and happy environment. And so my asking for CS has nothing to do with vindicativness, though I do feel a bit of uncomfortability going for it.

But than I aske myself, why should my ex be relieved of all responsibilities including financial, because she decided that being a "$kank" was her niche in life....and thus why I am in the position I am in today. So, Chat, I think you and I are in totally different situations here as I am sure I am doing the right thing and I am sure that my ex do to her self-centered and selfish attitude, would absolutaly feel that paying me CS would be just about as devasting to her as it was when the judge decided she was unfit to have even joint custody of the boys anymore and that they would be much better off with me. Thanks for sharing again.......cheers

-Tommy

Tommy

I live in Texas and I know that the minimum in our state is $150.00 and that is for the unemployed. I also know that the courts require payments be made through the state, if the payments are not through the state then they assume you haven't paid. The state will not go after someone on their own, you have to tell them you are not receiving support before they will act. Texas has added many laws concerning CS. If you don't pay your child support, it will be reported negatively on your credit, you will loose your drivers license and then of course there is jail time.

I would like to say something about a comment that you made in your first post.


You sound like my ex when you said that and it hit a nerve. My ex complained about paying child support for years. If I had ever taken him back to court I could have had it doubled or possibly even trippled. he was paying me $300.00 a month. I never threatened him with court...Never... He was constantly telling me that the only reason I wanted my daughter was for the money. He told me and my duaghter that I would never let her go live with him becuase I wouldn't give up the money. On April 11 2004 my 14 1/2 yo daughter who was grounded at home for a bad report card came home from her weekend of slumber parties and friends at her dads with a new cell phone. She was told that because of her bad grades I would probably take the phone away from her. Which I didn't because I knew the game he was playing. Well 4 days later my daughter told me that she wanted to go live with her dad. My daughter said my dad doesn't want any CS, and he will keep paying you if you want cause he knows you need the money. I told her, I have always said that having you has nothing to do with the money. If you want to go live with your dad then you are free to do so. My ex and I agreed that there would be no child support paid to either of us. Within 2 months of my daughter being in their home, my ex had already filed for a change in custody and child support. Story told, I not only lost the CS I was receiving Now I'm paying it. I took a double hit and he got double the money back into his home. My husband and I will be meeting with an attorney to file bankruptcy in March. Keep in mind that if your ex has a stable life it is not like she can change everything she has done to provide for your children all this time. My house note did not go down because my daughter moved out, and i have lived in my home for 11 years, I should have to sell because of this? I built my life around having my daughter and I can't just up and sell my home and move into a one bedroom because she decided not to live here anymore. I know that I have loved my daughter more then anyone could ever imagine, but there are some who could say

That is so far from the truth but having to pay child support on top of loosing custody has caused more emotional and financial stress in my life then any one should ever have to deal with. Don't operate out of vengeance if you truley need the money then go based on that.
Let me add before I get a bunch critcism, I live in a 60,000 home and my ex lives in a 200,000.00 + home. He had that home while he paid CS so obviously he makes much more then I do. I also know that filing Bankruptcy wont stop CS, we are having to get rid of dept to pay the support.

Sorry so long and for venting
Chat