? about requesting a custody trial

[aparent2]

What is the name of your state? California

Scenario: Custody case going on one year long. Parties have all been to court ordered mediation. Child has been assigned a minor's counsel. Parties have participated in 6 months of Forensic Evaluation. All reports have same conclusion, but the other parent has rejected them all and is now requesting a custody trial.
Question: Do the courts have to allow a trial? Finances are depleted at this point, which is most probably the goal of the other parent, and representation at trial is unlikely to be afforded.

The other parent is the party that initiated all of this, and requested all the above professionals. Why would a court or judge allow them to disregard every professional they hired and continue to drag the case on?

Is there any information on reasons or cases that a judge would eventually halt the case and make a determination once and for all?

 

[LdiJ]

The judge cannot refuse to have a full hearing (its not actually a trial in civil or family law cases). That would be denying "due process" to the parent requesting the full hearing. The reports from the forensic evaluation and the children's counsel, and perhaps even mediation (depending on your state law) can/will all be introduced during the hearing as part of the evidence. Those reports will have a significant impact on the judge's decision.

If you feel that the other parent has dragged this on and caused unnecessary legal fees then its certainly your right to petition the judge (via your attorney) to order the other parent to pay all or a portion of your legal fees. That may or may not be ordered, but it can certainly be requested.

 

[rmet4nzkx]

Under California law, Evidence Code 730
Any party, counsel and or judge may request forensic examinaiton at any time in the proceedings, who pays may still be decided. In any case where a custody evaluation is requested, you can also assume that it will go to trial if it is one of the parties who request the evaluation and the right of the parties for trial. It is in no way a delaying tactic in and of it's self, although parties may be sanctioned and or found in contempt for other reasons and or the results of the evaluation may not be favoriable to the requesting party, nor does a "bad" report mean that the judges decisions will always be in allignment with the report.

 

[aparent2]

The judge cannot refuse to have a full hearing (its not actually a trial in civil or family law cases). That would be denying "due process" to the parent requesting the full hearing. The reports from the forensic evaluation and the children's counsel, and perhaps even mediation (depending on your state law) can/will all be introduced during the hearing as part of the evidence. Those reports will have a significant impact on the judge's decision.

If you feel that the other parent has dragged this on and caused unnecessary legal fees then its certainly your right to petition the judge (via your attorney) to order the other parent to pay all or a portion of your legal fees. That may or may not be ordered, but it can certainly be requested.

Can you elaborate more on the differences between a hearing and a trial? there have already been several hearings. I have legal representation but can not continue to afford it if this is going to last months longer. do you have any information on how long such a hearing/trial typically lasts?

 

[aparent2]

Under California law, Evidence Code 730
Any party, counsel and or judge may request forensic examinaiton at any time in the proceedings, who pays may still be decided. In any case where a custody evaluation is requested, you can also assume that it will go to trial if it is one of the parties who request the evaluation and the right of the parties for trial. It is in no way a delaying tactic in and of it's self, although parties may be sanctioned and or found in contempt for other reasons and or the results of the evaluation may not be favoriable to the requesting party, nor does a "bad" report mean that the judges decisions will always be in allignment with the report.

yes it was the other party that requested the forensic evaluation after they were not pleased with the mediation and minors attorney reports. the judge did not necessarily agree at first but other party attorney pushed and offered to pay costs so we stipulated to the evaluation. I was not concerned of the outcome. The attorney representing me is surprised the case has gone on as long as it has and believes it is a huge waste of money and that the judge respects the evaluators opinion. does any of that matter?

Do you know what a hearing ortrial would entail? I received the information over the holiday weekend and can not reach the office until monday. I do not know a time frame or approximate cost or what to prepare for at this point.

 

[casa]

What is the name of your state? California

Scenario: Custody case going on one year long. Parties have all been to court ordered mediation. Child has been assigned a minor's counsel. Parties have participated in 6 months of Forensic Evaluation. All reports have same conclusion, but the other parent has rejected them all and is now requesting a custody trial.
Question: Do the courts have to allow a trial? Finances are depleted at this point, which is most probably the goal of the other parent, and representation at trial is unlikely to be afforded.

The other parent is the party that initiated all of this, and requested all the above professionals. Why would a court or judge allow them to disregard every professional they hired and continue to drag the case on?

Is there any information on reasons or cases that a judge would eventually halt the case and make a determination once and for all?

Well, I certainly empathize with you! People will money can wreak havoc in CA courts My own case (as well as others I've witnessed) can go on for even years.

I have a nuttyX who has used, not only same professionals yours has, but even more (CPS etc.) to harass myself and my children.

What my lawyer told me what that eventually people like these get "jerk status" with the judges. Then the judges lose their patience and end up either sanctioning them or punishing by not awarding custody or visitation that is requested.

Hang in there. The people my nuttyX has sicked on me, have only helped my case in the long run. Justice may be slow, but it's not always blind

 

[rmet4nzkx]

yes it was the other party that requested the forensic evaluation after they were not pleased with the mediation and minors attorney reports. the judge did not necessarily agree at first but other party attorney pushed and offered to pay costs so we stipulated to the evaluation. I was not concerned of the outcome. The attorney representing me is surprised the case has gone on as long as it has and believes it is a huge waste of money and that the judge respects the evaluators opinion. does any of that matter?

Do you know what a hearing ortrial would entail? I received the information over the holiday weekend and can not reach the office until monday. I do not know a time frame or approximate cost or what to prepare for at this point.

The mediators and minors attorney both have a legalistic viewpoint, whereas the forensic evaluation is based on a broader scope of reference and expert opinion, usually backed up with more scientific proof than opinion, so usually more unbiased. It is possible for a very manipulative person to present a compelling case to mediators and attorneys and win but fail when presented with the stark reality of a forensic evaluation. A lot will depend on who the forensic evaluater is, their qualifications, the testing and investigation. If it is conducted by a LCSW v a forensic psychologist you might even get different results. My suggestion is to cooporate with the process.

You will have to ask your attorney how long the trial might take, because it will depend on the evidence, witnesses etc. if the reports are not in yet you may not know until it is calandered.

 

[aparent2]

The mediators and minors attorney both have a legalistic viewpoint, whereas the forensic evaluation is based on a broader scope of reference and expert opinion, usually backed up with more scientific proof than opinion, so usually more unbiased. It is possible for a very manipulative person to present a compelling case to mediators and attorneys and win but fail when presented with the stark reality of a forensic evaluation. A lot will depend on who the forensic evaluater is, their qualifications, the testing and investigation. If it is conducted by a LCSW v a forensic psychologist you might even get different results. My suggestion is to cooporate with the process.

You will have to ask your attorney how long the trial might take, because it will depend on the evidence, witnesses etc. if the reports are not in yet you may not know until it is calandered.

The evaluator was a Forensic Psychologist. The reports are all in. They all say basically the same things. The other parent is very manipulative in my mind, but that is because I think they are acting from resentment not anything else. A couple of the reports mentioned the same.
I will ask the lawyer on monday about a length of time for the trial. I am trying to find out any information I can to try to find out if I can afford the extra cost.
Do you happen to know if it is a rule to have a lawyer? Would it hurt my case if I can not continue to pay a lawyer?
I am on a set income which is very modest.

I guess custody cases are like crash courses in law. This has been so painful to go through for everyone.

 

[rmet4nzkx]

The evaluator was a Forensic Psychologist. The reports are all in. They all say basically the same things. The other parent is very manipulative in my mind, but that is because I think they are acting from resentment not anything else. A couple of the reports mentioned the same.
I will ask the lawyer on monday about a length of time for the trial. I am trying to find out any information I can to try to find out if I can afford the extra cost.
Do you happen to know if it is a rule to have a lawyer? Would it hurt my case if I can not continue to pay a lawyer?
I am on a set income which is very modest.

I guess custody cases are like crash courses in law. This has been so painful to go through for everyone.

A forensic psychologist/evaluator deals in facts and evidence, a lot will depend on what the attorneys will do with those facts and the temperment of the judge.

While you are entitled to your personal opinion and perspective and may even be able to extrapulate that same thought in the reports, that however , doesn't necessiarly mean the judge will find in your favor or even that what you see as manipulative may still be seen in the best interest of the child. The two attorneys will discuss the reports out of court and with you to try to come to some sort of an agreement, you can ask for attorney's fees.

Bottom line is if funds are low, can you go to court without an attorney, yes you can, but if you are asking these quesitons, you are probably not well enough equiped.

What are the tempoary orders, what are you seeking, what is the other parent seeking?

What is in the best interest of the children?
Can you compromise?

 

[aparent2]

A forensic psychologist/evaluator deals in facts and evidence, a lot will depend on what the attorneys will do with those facts and the temperment of the judge.

While you are entitled to your personal opinion and perspective and may even be able to extrapulate that same thought in the reports, that however , doesn't necessiarly mean the judge will find in your favor or even that what you see as manipulative may still be seen in the best interest of the child. The two attorneys will discuss the reports out of court and with you to try to come to some sort of an agreement, you can ask for attorney's fees.

Bottom line is if funds are low, can you go to court without an attorney, yes you can, but if you are asking these quesitons, you are probably not well enough equiped.

What are the tempoary orders, what are you seeking, what is the other parent seeking?

What is in the best interest of the children?
Can you compromise?

I am honestly not equipped. It is above my head in so many ways. I am still surprised this is even happening.

The divorce was several years ago. Father left the home, did not want to salvage marriage. After some time I filed separation and custody. We had court ordered mediation. Mediation gave us both legal custody, with me having physical custody. Over time Dad was not always using his time for visiting, but then we would agree to Dad having make up time if he wanted it. Sometimes he changed his hours or jobs and we just changed visits to match the schedules. Dad did not use all his visit times but it didn't bother either one of us really.

A bit over a year ago Dad got a girlfriend 16 years his junior. At first I was happy that Dad was using all his visit time again. Then over time every thing became a problem. I don't know how it even started but became complaining about every little thing we never fought over before. So many trivial things like shoes or plans. Dad started asking our child about everything in our home what do we eat, when, who comes over. Pretty soon our child started acting nervous when it was time to see Dad. I tried to talk to Dad and work it out. It got worse, so I wanted to go to family therapy but Dad refused. I tried to enroll her to see a counselor but Dad has joint legal and would not cooperate. I wanted to enroll her in preschool but he would not consent. Things like that which do not make sense at all. He filed sole custody and said I was now crazy and so many bizarre things.

I cooperated with the case and went to mediation. They talked to people who knew us and made their recommendation and report. It was not flattering to the Dad in many ways. So, then Dad asked for a minors attorney. Their report was not as prejucidial sounding to the Dad but still recommended I keep custody. Dad was furious at this and then pushed for Forensic Evaluation.
I never read the report from the Evaluation because my lawyer said the evaluator did not recommend for either parent to read it. So we were given the recommendation only. We had a court date set for hearing. We were given things to do in the recommendation like take the child to a therapist to work on coparenting issues. I can not even get Dad to authorize consent for therapy.

Now yesterday I received news Dad has requested a trial. And it's the holiday weekend so there is not much I can do but try to understand why or how this is all happening? I have left messages for my lawyer asking if this means the hearing is cancelled? How long will this take? How much will it cost?

Mostly I am surprised that Dad has asked for all of this but still does not listen to the people he hired.

 

[rmet4nzkx]

While he asked for the forensic evaluation, it is on court order and as such is not bound to any of the recomendations until the court so orders, thus the trial. While everything may seem appropriate to you, he may still have reasonable objecitons nor has he been found totally un fit by any of the reports, even they have mixed recomendaitons, thus reason for trial. BTW, the Forensic Psychologist should have what is called quasi-judical immunity, that is to help insure their nutrality even though one party may pay for the evaluation, that does/should not affect the outcome of their report which is usually not available prior to trial to the parties, thus you only got the recomendaitons, while your attorney has all of it.

Not knowing the details, you may have very reasonably requested putting the child in pre-school, but he may have some objection to that or the specific school or the additional cost. Same for therapy, which as you should know will not be with any of the evaluators.

You can check with the clerk for family court as your share of the daily cost of a trial and your attorney should be able to answer all your quesitons when they return. Does your Ex a an issue with child support? Or an issue with his new relationship that might be behind his wanting custody?

What are the accusations re your mental stability?

 

[aparent2]

While he asked for the forensic evaluation, it is on court order and as such is not bound to any of the recomendations until the court so orders, thus the trial. While everything may seem appropriate to you, he may still have reasonable objecitons nor has he been found totally un fit by any of the reports, even they have mixed recomendaitons, thus reason for trial. BTW, the Forensic Psychologist should have what is called quasi-judical immunity, that is to help insure their nutrality even though one party may pay for the evaluation, that does/should not affect the outcome of their report which is usually not available prior to trial to the parties, thus you only got the recomendaitons, while your attorney has all of it.

Not knowing the details, you may have very reasonably requested putting the child in pre-school, but he may have some objection to that or the specific school or the additional cost. Same for therapy, which as you should know will not be with any of the evaluators.

You can check with the clerk for family court as your share of the daily cost of a trial and your attorney should be able to answer all your quesitons when they return. Does your Ex a an issue with child support? Or an issue with his new relationship that might be behind his wanting custody?

What are the accusations re your mental stability?

Dad pays below standard support, but I have not filed to have it increased. He did start another new job a month or two before filing all of this and I asked him if he could afford to help out financially more, but I did not file for an increase. I am not sure about the new relationship other than she is considerably younger than him, not a citizen and likely knows he does not want anymore children. I don't know if any of that is relevant? The only issue I have with the girlfriend is her dishonesty in backing up the stories he's told to the court. I no longer view her as honest.

The reports all have the exact same recommendation and conclusions. It's just that the mediator's report addressed more character flaws in the father and the minor's attorney report didn't mention character issues. The Forensic Evaluator's report also has the same conclusion or recommendation, but I do not know the results of any of the testing done. I only know from the statements of billing that Dad had to take the MMPI more than once. I actually posted a question about that on this board at the time, but did not receive responses. I also don't know if that is relevant.?? I'm just answering any questions that may help clarify the matter.

I did not ask Dad to pay for daycare. It would have been no cost to him. It is a licensed caycare and I gave Dad their information and the directors number in advance.

The issue of Dad saying I am crazy is because I wanted to take her to a therapist to find out why she was becoming upset about visiting her Dad. Dad reacted strongly and refused to cooperate or consent to her being in therapy. Dad acted irate with the therapist I was getting her in to see. That therapist had harsh words for the Dad. Then minor's attorney intervened and had both of us see a Ph.D. prior to the last hearing. That Ph.D. works in the court system and said in her report that the child seemed happy and well adjusted and in her opinion did not need continued therapy. She said the anxiety the child was exhibiting was likely due to the conflict between the parents at drop off or pick up. The Dad said there was no conflict and that I was crazy and making it all up. There was suddenly always a problem the Dad was complaining about. one time she wanted to wear her pretty shoes and a dress and Dad got mad I didn't put her in tennis shoes that day because he wanted to let her ride her bike. I didn't know they were going bike riding, only that she was excited to dress up in a new outfit her Grandmother got her. I put her in a jacket and he wanted her to have a hat instead of ajacket with a hood. ??? One time when she was potty training Dad found marks in her underwear she hadn't wiped completely. 2 years later, he mentioned in court I had not properly trained her. She was average age at potty training and there was never a previous mention of this incident. ??? Things like that were happening.

There were other things about being crazy. He sort of rotated what his concerns were changing them after each thing being checked out. He said maybe I had been using drugs so the mediator gave information to provide drug testing which I did. Then he said maybe I was dating some dangerous person, so everyone was given contact and history information for the same person I was dating for over a year. He said my family thought I was losing my mind, so they contacted my family who said they never said or thought anything like that. My lawyer said these things are said in a lot of custody cases. ??? I was given all psychological testing by the evaluator also.

I tried to be brief and to the point like the forum rules say, but it's hard to make the answers shorter than this!!

 

[LdiJ]

Dad pays below standard support, but I have not filed to have it increased. He did start another new job a month or two before filing all of this and I asked him if he could afford to help out financially more, but I did not file for an increase. I am not sure about the new relationship other than she is considerably younger than him, not a citizen and likely knows he does not want anymore children. I don't know if any of that is relevant? The only issue I have with the girlfriend is her dishonesty in backing up the stories he's told to the court. I no longer view her as honest.

The reports all have the exact same recommendation and conclusions. It's just that the mediator's report addressed more character flaws in the father and the minor's attorney report didn't mention character issues. The Forensic Evaluator's report also has the same conclusion or recommendation, but I do not know the results of any of the testing done. I only know from the statements of billing that Dad had to take the MMPI more than once. I actually posted a question about that on this board at the time, but did not receive responses. I also don't know if that is relevant.?? I'm just answering any questions that may help clarify the matter.

The issue of Dad saying I am crazy is because I wanted to take her to a therapist to find out why she was becoming upset about visiting her Dad. Dad reacted strongly and refused to cooperate or consent to her being in therapy. Minor's attorney did have her and us see a Ph.D. prior to the last hearing. That Ph.D. works in the court system and said in her report that the child seemed well adjusted and in her opinion did not need continued therapy. She said the anxiety the child was exhibiting was likely due to the conflict between the parents at drop off or pick up. The Dad said there was no conflict and that I was crazy and making it all up. There was suddenly always a problem the Dad was complaining about. one time she wanted to wear her pretty shoes and a dress and Dad got mad I didn't put her in tennis shoes that day because he wanted to let her ride her bike. I didn't know they were going bike riding, only that she was excited to dress up in a new outfit her Grandmother got her. I put her in a jacket and he wanted her to have a hat instead of ajacket with a hood. ??? One time when she was potty training Dad found marks in her underwear she hadn't wiped completely. 2 years later, he mentioned in court I had not properly trained her. She was average age at potty training and there was never a previous mention of this incident. ??? Things like that were happening.

There were other things about being crazy. My lawyer told me things the court hears all the time. He said maybe I had been using drugs so the mediator gave information to provide drug testing which I did. He said maybe I was dating some dangerous person, so everyone was given contact information for the same person I was dating for over a year. He said my family thought I was losing my mind, so they contacted my family who said they never said or thought anything like that. My lawyer said these things are said in a lot of custody cases. ??? I was given all psychological testing by the evaluator also.

I tried to be brief and to the point like the forum rules say, but it's hard to make the answers shorter than this!!

Its relatively obvious that his marriage was a catalyst for these actions, since everything between you was fairly amicable prior to that. It may be that he is afraid of a child support increase, and therefore wants custody, it may be that he likes being in a "family" atmosphere again and wants his child to be part of it all the time instead of just part of the time. It could be that his wife is anxious to cement their relationship by "mothering" his child (particularly since he doesn't want any more kids)....it could be a multitude of reasons.

What happening now however is that he doesn't want to admit that he has gone through all these steps and taken all this action just to lose. Therefore he is fighting to the bitter end, instead of negotiating a settlement with you now that the mediator, the minor's counsel and the forensic evaluator all are reporting in your favor.

While no one can say for sure how a judge will rule after hearing all testimony. It honestly will be difficult for dad to prevail when the child has been in your primary custody all along, AND the professionals all agree that things should remain that way. I just hope that when push comes to shove dad accepts things gracefully so that your child can have a peaceful life.

 

[aparent2]

Well, I certainly empathize with you! People will money can wreak havoc in CA courts My own case (as well as others I've witnessed) can go on for even years.

I have a nuttyX who has used, not only same professionals yours has, but even more (CPS etc.) to harass myself and my children.

What my lawyer told me what that eventually people like these get "jerk status" with the judges. Then the judges lose their patience and end up either sanctioning them or punishing by not awarding custody or visitation that is requested.

Hang in there. The people my nuttyX has sicked on me, have only helped my case in the long run. Justice may be slow, but it's not always blind

years??? I just can not imagine going through this for years.

What happened to your case? My child's Dad isn't wealthy but his family has considerable amount of money and I think they are helping him with this. I can barely keep paying my own lawyer, but her Dad has paid his own lawyer and also had to pay minor's attorney and the evaluator! He is asking for the costs to be reimbursed to him! Would a judge order me to pay him back for these people even if he is the one who asked for them and said he'd pay for them???

 

[aparent2]

Its relatively obvious that his marriage was a catalyst for these actions, since everything between you was fairly amicable prior to that. It may be that he is afraid of a child support increase, and therefore wants custody, it may be that he likes being in a "family" atmosphere again and wants his child to be part of it all the time instead of just part of the time. It could be that his wife is anxious to cement their relationship by "mothering" his child (particularly since he doesn't want any more kids)....it could be a multitude of reasons.

What happening now however is that he doesn't want to admit that he has gone through all these steps and taken all this action just to lose. Therefore he is fighting to the bitter end, instead of negotiating a settlement with you now that the mediator, the minor's counsel and the forensic evaluator all are reporting in your favor.

While no one can say for sure how a judge will rule after hearing all testimony. It honestly will be difficult for dad to prevail when the child has been in your primary custody all along, AND the professionals all agree that things should remain that way. I just hope that when push comes to shove dad accepts things gracefully so that your child can have a peaceful life.

The Dads lawyer will not negotiate anything with my lawyer. My lawyer is trying to save me money and his lawyer is saying they will exhaust every avenue.

I'm very nervous at the thought of losing representation for trial because I cannot continue to pay the costs. I am on a waiting list for legal aid but they told me it won't happen before trial and probably not this year!!

I don't know, it's been a long time since Dad was acting gracefully towards me.