? about requesting a custody trial

[rmet4nzkx]

I'm picking up some inconsistancies, that may be a part of what is happening. Two of your major objections, that he would not allow court ordered therapy and preschool for your child, turn out to be somewhat different, that is, child is found to be well adjusted therapy not recommended instead parents need to work it out and preschool becomes, child care, to which there would be no objection if you were working and or going to school. Also the MMPI issue, that could be an issue or not, there may be litigmate reasons for giving it more than once, I cannot comment further on that issue, except to say it is a fact, one which your attorney may or not use.

If child support is not an issue, if he is paying less and yet has enough money to fight this expensive custody battle instead, you should seriously consider asking for an upward adjustment in support levels.

Which brings us down to what is behind this whole issue and why I asked the questions. He is with a younger woman and for what ever reason he either can't or won't have more children, no doubt, she wants children, thus the pressure for custody.

The problem will be to realistically remove the roadblocks to comming to an agreement, which may mean making him an offer he can't refuse that protects the best interest of the child, such as allowing him more parenting time, even split time or 51/49% with you still retaining primary physical and child support, enrolling the child in a standard preschool which both parents would utilize for the child and trading weeks of custody, with the pick up and drop off at the school so it is less traumatic or somehting along these lines.

 

[LdiJ]

The Dads lawyer will not negotiate anything with my lawyer. My lawyer is trying to save me money and his lawyer is saying they will exhaust every avenue.

I'm very nervous at the thought of losing representation for trial because I cannot continue to pay the costs. I am on a waiting list for legal aid but they told me it won't happen before trial and probably not this year!!

I don't know, it's been a long time since Dad was acting gracefully towards me.

You really need to do whatever you can to make sure that you retain your attorney, including asking that dad be required to pay your legal fees. Honestly, with the situation the way it is you do have a chance of prevailing on that issue. Borrow where you can borrow...but do try. I know the debt is scary, but as long as you have been upfront with us, it looks to me like you are going to win this case as long as you remain represented. I am not saying that you will lose without an attorney...but its much tougher.

There is also at least some slim chance that dad (or whoever is funding dad) will wise up before it actually goes into a full hearing.

 

[rmet4nzkx]

I am wondering if we are getting all the facts and just how old this child is? There are a number of other posts re 2 daughters aged 9 & 11 is this a different daughter with a different father? Also are they all living in the same community? Some things don't add up and I hate digging through old posts looking for clues.

 

[LdiJ]

To the original poster.............


I just looked back on some of your previous posts. Unless you were asking questions for other people I think that you have left out an extremely relevant bit of information.

Dad is military and is being transferred to Japan. If that is about your case...then the advice that you get here could be very different.....and it might not even be so dangerous to go it without an attorney.

 

[aparent2]

I am wondering if we are getting all the facts and just how old this child is? There are a number of other posts re 2 daughters aged 9 & 11 is this a different daughter with a different father? Also are they all living in the same community? Some things don't add up and I hate digging through old posts looking for clues.

There are more than one child. The child this is referring to is preschool age. Yes, it is a preschool not a daycare. Sorry daycare is what she goes to in Dads parenting time if he's working.

We do not live in the same community.

The children have different fathers. I have no problems with the other father.

 

[aparent2]

To the original poster.............


I just looked back on some of your previous posts. Unless you were asking questions for other people I think that you have left out an extremely relevant bit of information.

Dad is military and is being transferred to Japan. If that is about your case...then the advice that you get here could be very different.....and it might not even be so dangerous to go it without an attorney.

I'm sorry to confuse you all. Different children, Different father. Yes I have an older child who has a father who is in the military but he and I are able to work things out when they come up. He is the one I wrote about before to find out how to handle her flying to Japan to see him. That worked out, we agreed and are getting her a passport and he will be flying to get her so she won't fly alone. That situation worked out well.

 

[aparent2]

I'm picking up some inconsistancies, that may be a part of what is happening. Two of your major objections, that he would not allow court ordered therapy and preschool for your child, turn out to be somewhat different, that is, child is found to be well adjusted therapy not recommended instead parents need to work it out and preschool becomes, child care, to which there would be no objection if you were working and or going to school. Also the MMPI issue, that could be an issue or not, there may be litigmate reasons for giving it more than once, I cannot comment further on that issue, except to say it is a fact, one which your attorney may or not use.

If child support is not an issue, if he is paying less and yet has enough money to fight this expensive custody battle instead, you should seriously consider asking for an upward adjustment in support levels.

Which brings us down to what is behind this whole issue and why I asked the questions. He is with a younger woman and for what ever reason he either can't or won't have more children, no doubt, she wants children, thus the pressure for custody.

The problem will be to realistically remove the roadblocks to comming to an agreement, which may mean making him an offer he can't refuse that protects the best interest of the child, such as allowing him more parenting time, even split time or 51/49% with you still retaining primary physical and child support, enrolling the child in a standard preschool which both parents would utilize for the child and trading weeks of custody, with the pick up and drop off at the school so it is less traumatic or somehting along these lines.

I know this sounds confusing and it is confusing. Originally I wanted therapy to find out why our child was having anxiety over visiting, that is when Dad would not consent. We have joint legal custody with me having primary physical custody. After a minor's attorney was appointed she intervened and sent us to a Ph.D. who works with the court system. The Ph.D. said the child was happy and well adjusted and that the anxiety exhibited was probably because of the conflict arising during visitation exchange. Now after the forensic evaluation one of the recommendations from that was to enter in therapy to make sure the child is able to deal with all the conflict going on currently and throughout the case which keeps going on.

The preschool issue was that she was asking about school a lot since her older sibling was going and doing homework so I went to look into it and she really liked the visit and wanted to go. I gave all the information to her Dad so he could check it out if he wanted to but he did not want her to go to preschool. I never got an answer why he did not want her to go.

The child support issue has been one I do not like to fight over. Dad does not have a large amount of money, but his family has given him large sums of money for this court battle. When we divorced he offered an amount he could pay and we have just managed on that amount and not fought over money issues. Money is only an issue now because my family does not have the means to provide extra thousands of dollars for this case.

I definately have tried to agree on ideas for sharing time but Dad wants full custody. He is not fighting for joint physical he is fighting for full physical custody and to cease child support, have me pay him support, and to have me pay his attorney fees. He said at one point in the beginning of this his lawyer told him to ask for everything and settle for anything he can get.

We do not live in the same community. We are about an hours commute from one another. He complains already about traffic and we meet at a half way point!! He used to pick her up but started being upset about it, so we started sharing the commuting. Then he complained about traffic on certain days so we meet half way. I will continue to meet half way it doesn't bother me.

When I say my lawyer and I try to come to agreements, it is true. His lawyer will not agree on anything. He just says his client will not consent and that is that. I drive to his town to take her to Doctor appointments because he won't change insurance provider for me to take her in my town because he won't make the drive if he has her during an appointment time.

 

[LdiJ]

I know this sounds confusing and it is confusing. Originally I wanted therapy to find out why our child was having anxiety over visiting, that is when Dad would not consent. We have joint legal custody with me having primary physical custody. After a minor's attorney was appointed she intervened and sent us to a Ph.D. who works with the court system. The Ph.D. said the child was happy and well adjusted and that the anxiety exhibited was probably because of the conflict arising during visitation exchange. Now after the forensic evaluation one of the recommendations from that was to enter in therapy to make sure the child is able to deal with all the conflict going on currently and throughout the case which keeps going on.

The preschool issue was that she was asking about school a lot since her older sibling was going and doing homework so I went to look into it and she really liked the visit and wanted to go. I gave all the information to her Dad so he could check it out if he wanted to but he did not want her to go to preschool. I never got an answer why he did not want her to go.

The child support issue has been one I do not like to fight over. Dad does not have a large amount of money, but his family has given him large sums of money for this court battle. When we divorced he offered an amount he could pay and we have just managed on that amount and not fought over money issues. Money is only an issue now because my family does not have the means to provide extra thousands of dollars for this case.

I definately have tried to agree on ideas for sharing time but Dad wants full custody. He is not fighting for joint physical he is fighting for full physical custody and to cease child support, have me pay him support, and to have me pay his attorney fees. He said at one point in the beginning of this his lawyer told him to ask for everything and settle for anything he can get.

We do not live in the same community. We are about an hours commute from one another. He complains already about traffic and we meet at a half way point!! He used to pick her up but started being upset about it, so we started sharing the commuting. Then he complained about traffic on certain days so we meet half way. I will continue to meet half way it doesn't bother me.

When I say my lawyer and I try to come to agreements, it is true. His lawyer will not agree on anything. He just says his client will not consent and that is that. I drive to his town to take her to Doctor appointments because he won't change insurance provider for me to take her in my town because he won't make the drive if he has her during an appointment time.

You know....you are carrying this "joint custody" thing a little further than you need to carry it. You do not need dad's consent to enrol her in preschool. You are perfectly free to do that. Dad doesn't have to send her there on "his" time (if he has time during the week) but other than that, dad can't stop you......and would look REALLY foolish in court if he tried.

If you are employed, and have the option of also covering your child under your insurance then you can do so and take her to a doctor in your town.

Seriously though, as long as you haven't left out anything important this case really does look like a winner for you. I realize that you are running out of money but please do everything that you can do to keep your attorney....and make sure that you ask that he pay your legal fees. Everything has come back in your favor and it would be difficult for a judge to justify making a decision that is different than what three different professionals have recommended. You also don't live close enough to make joint (50/50) parenting time feasible....particularly once she starts school, so that isn't really an option.

 

[aparent2]

You know....you are carrying this "joint custody" thing a little further than you need to carry it. You do not need dad's consent to enrol her in preschool. You are perfectly free to do that. Dad doesn't have to send her there on "his" time (if he has time during the week) but other than that, dad can't stop you......and would look REALLY foolish in court if he tried.

If you are employed, and have the option of also covering your child under your insurance then you can do so and take her to a doctor in your town.

Seriously though, as long as you haven't left out anything important this case really does look like a winner for you. I realize that you are running out of money but please do everything that you can do to keep your attorney....and make sure that you ask that he pay your legal fees. Everything has come back in your favor and it would be difficult for a judge to justify making a decision that is different than what three different professionals have recommended. You also don't live close enough to make joint (50/50) parenting time feasible....particularly once she starts school, so that isn't really an option.

Thanks so much for taking the extra time to reply again.

I am still unclear about preschool. When Dad got the information he called the preschool director and told her that he did not consent and then he called my lawyer and said he would not consent. My lawyer talked to his lawyer, saying they should be able to come to an agreement since I had majority of weekday time and the preschool was licensed. Dads lawyer said he would not agree. My lawyer then told me that we have to agree on educational decisions and medical decisions and legal decisions. ??? This was a bit ago and by the time this is settled it looks like we will be looking at kindergarden enrollment!

I have asked my lawyer to bring this to the attention of the judge when we have another hearing or the trial.

I am still so surprised a court would allow this to go to a trial after so many reports have already made recommendations. And I have agreed to everything except transfering custody to Dad. I don't think that is best for her. As a matter of fact i still don't know why it is even filed for. People keep saying these things happen in a divorce situation but the divorce was over years ago.

 

[LdiJ]

Thanks so much for taking the extra time to reply again.

I am still unclear about preschool. When Dad got the information he called the preschool director and told her that he did not consent and then he called my lawyer and said he would not consent. My lawyer talked to his lawyer, saying they should be able to come to an agreement since I had majority of weekday time and the preschool was licensed. Dads lawyer said he would not agree. My lawyer then told me that we have to agree on educational decisions and medical decisions and legal decisions. ??? This was a bit ago and by the time this is settled it looks like we will be looking at kindergarden enrollment!

I have asked my lawyer to bring this to the attention of the judge when we have another hearing or the trial.

I am still so surprised a court would allow this to go to a trial after so many reports have already made recommendations. And I have agreed to everything except transfering custody to Dad. I don't think that is best for her. As a matter of fact i still don't know why it is even filed for. People keep saying these things happen in a divorce situation but the divorce was over years ago.

Ok...your attorney was techically correct that you both have to agree on educational issues. Let say that you enroll her in another preschool without saying anything to dad. Dad eventually finds out and files for contempt because you did it without his approval....and also throws a hissy because you refuse to tell him WHERE she is enrolled.

So, you go to court. Dad presents his case that you enrolled the child in preschool without his approval and that you refused to give him any information about the preschool and where it was located. The judge is going to ask him WHY he doesn't approve. He isn't going to be able to come up with a decent answer (unless he has some legitimate beef about the particular preschool itself...which appears unlikely). If he is as foolish as I think he is he might even be foolish even to say that its because he though it would give you an edge for custody if the child was already in preschool (which is probably why he said no...unless he is just a control freak)

Then the judge is going to ask you why you did it without dad's approval and why you wouldn't give dad any information.

You are going to say that you believe that preschool is important to prepare a child for kindergarten. Then you are going to explain about the interest that she showed in school...and then you are going to explain about the last time that you tried to enroll her in preschool...how you got all the information for her father and that not only did he refuse to agree...but he actually called the school and told them that he didn't agree to make SURE that you couldn't enroll her.

Then the judge is going to give dad a disgusted look...and dismiss the contempt charges. Or, the judge is going to give dad a disgusted look and give you a mild lecture about not doing things without dad's agreement, and then give dad a STERN lecture about wasting his courtroom time about something that dad should have agreed about in the first place.

Seriously, when it comes to joint custody, a judge is not going to hammer a parent for doing something that is normal for the child. Particularly if that something normal is generally recognized as being in the child's best interest or being important for the child (like preschool). A judge is far more likely to hammer the OTHER parent for being such a dufus or control freak that they refuse to agree to anything that isn't "their idea".

When it comes time for her to go to KG...just you wait, he is going to try to refuse to agree again...he is going to come up with wild idea that she get enrolled in his community or someplace halfway between the two of you. Don't even get your attorney involved in that one. Just enroll her in school in your community and let dad take you to court and represent yourself.

 

[aparent2]

Ok...your attorney was techically correct that you both have to agree on educational issues. Let say that you enroll her in another preschool without saying anything to dad. Dad eventually finds out and files for contempt because you did it without his approval....and also throws a hissy because you refuse to tell him WHERE she is enrolled.

So, you go to court. Dad presents his case that you enrolled the child in preschool without his approval and that you refused to give him any information about the preschool and where it was located. The judge is going to ask him WHY he doesn't approve. He isn't going to be able to come up with a decent answer (unless he has some legitimate beef about the particular preschool itself...which appears unlikely). If he is as foolish as I think he is he might even be foolish even to say that its because he though it would give you an edge for custody if the child was already in preschool (which is probably why he said no...unless he is just a control freak)

Then the judge is going to ask you why you did it without dad's approval and why you wouldn't give dad any information.

You are going to say that you believe that preschool is important to prepare a child for kindergarten. Then you are going to explain about the interest that she showed in school...and then you are going to explain about the last time that you tried to enroll her in preschool...how you got all the information for her father and that not only did he refuse to agree...but he actually called the school and told them that he didn't agree to make SURE that you couldn't enroll her.

Then the judge is going to give dad a disgusted look...and dismiss the contempt charges. Or, the judge is going to give dad a disgusted look and give you a mild lecture about not doing things without dad's agreement, and then give dad a STERN lecture about wasting his courtroom time about something that dad should have agreed about in the first place.

Seriously, when it comes to joint custody, a judge is not going to hammer a parent for doing something that is normal for the child. Particularly if that something normal is generally recognized as being in the child's best interest or being important for the child (like preschool). A judge is far more likely to hammer the OTHER parent for being such a dufus or control freak that they refuse to agree to anything that isn't "their idea".

When it comes time for her to go to KG...just you wait, he is going to try to refuse to agree again...he is going to come up with wild idea that she get enrolled in his community or someplace halfway between the two of you. Don't even get your attorney involved in that one. Just enroll her in school in your community and let dad take you to court and represent yourself.

You were right! My attorney has motioned to the court to allow preschool and also for attorney's fees because I cannot keep affording this ongoing fight, which the Dad keeps up. I won't know for awhile what the outcome is about attorney fees, but was told to go ahead and take our child to preschool. She loves it!

Now Dad is calling the preschool. Saying he wants to sit in on her class and volunteer! I cannot believe it, after all the months of refusing consent. Then I agree for him to do that on his days and he doesn't even show up. I thought it was a stretch being that he's in a different county than I am in, but after he called and made such a fuss about it, I was surprised he didn't even show up.

At the same time, he's still pursuing in court that I did this without his consent. I gave him notice for months, I gave him contact and license numbers, even the director's direct line. The teacher is getting irritated by him at this point. But at least she goes now and enjoys herself and gets to go everyday with her sister to school

Thank You for your opinion and ideas

 

[aparent2]

I'm picking up some inconsistancies, that may be a part of what is happening. Two of your major objections, that he would not allow court ordered therapy and preschool for your child, turn out to be somewhat different, that is, child is found to be well adjusted therapy not recommended instead parents need to work it out and preschool becomes, child care, to which there would be no objection if you were working and or going to school. Also the MMPI issue, that could be an issue or not, there may be litigmate reasons for giving it more than once, I cannot comment further on that issue, except to say it is a fact, one which your attorney may or not use.

If child support is not an issue, if he is paying less and yet has enough money to fight this expensive custody battle instead, you should seriously consider asking for an upward adjustment in support levels.

Which brings us down to what is behind this whole issue and why I asked the questions. He is with a younger woman and for what ever reason he either can't or won't have more children, no doubt, she wants children, thus the pressure for custody.

The problem will be to realistically remove the roadblocks to comming to an agreement, which may mean making him an offer he can't refuse that protects the best interest of the child, such as allowing him more parenting time, even split time or 51/49% with you still retaining primary physical and child support, enrolling the child in a standard preschool which both parents would utilize for the child and trading weeks of custody, with the pick up and drop off at the school so it is less traumatic or somehting along these lines.

I took your advice and offered more weekend parenting time. No luck. Still going to trial. I was told the mediator and evaluator and everyone will be asked to testify.

My question is should I ask for access for the evaluators report now that we are going to trial? My attorney said I have the right to demand it, but the evaluator did not recommend either parent to read it. I am wondering if I should need it to prepare for the trial?

I found out just recently that the Dad told the evaluator that he didn't want full custody. That is very surprising to me since he filed for that and is fighting all this time and continuing to fight for that. It still makes no sense to me.

 

[casa]

years??? I just can not imagine going through this for years.

What happened to your case? My child's Dad isn't wealthy but his family has considerable amount of money and I think they are helping him with this. I can barely keep paying my own lawyer, but her Dad has paid his own lawyer and also had to pay minor's attorney and the evaluator! He is asking for the costs to be reimbursed to him! Would a judge order me to pay him back for these people even if he is the one who asked for them and said he'd pay for them???

Yep years Maybe not somuch in your case, but in mine. About once a year my nuttyX pulls some stunt. BUT the cases aren't exactly the same. My nuttyX uses custody and court for harrassment purposes. I'm still trying to iron that out in courts too. Let us know how it turns out.

 

[sparky31676]

???Forensic Evaluator???

What is a FORENSIC evaluator? (as apposed to a regular evaluator)
What do they evaluate? What type of evidence or forensic data?

 

[LdiJ]

I took your advice and offered more weekend parenting time. No luck. Still going to trial. I was told the mediator and evaluator and everyone will be asked to testify.

My question is should I ask for access for the evaluators report now that we are going to trial? My attorney said I have the right to demand it, but the evaluator did not recommend either parent to read it. I am wondering if I should need it to prepare for the trial?

I found out just recently that the Dad told the evaluator that he didn't want full custody. That is very surprising to me since he filed for that and is fighting all this time and continuing to fight for that. It still makes no sense to me.

The evaluators recommend that the parents don't see the report because the evaluator is very objective and frank about both the good things about each parent AND each parent's faults. The evaluators don't want the parents to have the detailed information to attempt to use against each other outside the courtroom....or even to be able to possibly show it to the child someday. A parent might attempt to play games with another parent based on the report. You can demand to see it...but unless your attorney feels that you need to see it I wouldn't worry about it.

However if you find out that dad has seen it...then its better if you see it too.