Acting legally without the other parent

[mrslunar]

What is the name of your state? California

So, I've been preparing to go to court so that I could move my daughter to another school next school year.

I went to the courthouse and got our entire file and the current order says something really interesting...

In the paragraph where we are both awarded legal custody, it says that in the event that we can't agree on an issue pertaining to something, (it specifically names education) then EITHER parent can act ALONE and make the legal choice for the child.

!!!!????

Now, having been to court a couple of times, I can see how the court would say this because I know that they hate wasting their time on petty disagreements between parents, but wow.

So, I was originally going to petition and get a mediation and get a judges ruling on this, but now I'm kind of torn between doing that OR just going forward and moving her to the other school (it's our school district school, she's currently at an out of district school) and let HIM do the petition if he feels that strongly about disagreeing. I don't want to p*ss off a judge by dragging this into court if I'm technically entitled to make the choice if we don't agree.

Thoughts?

 

[majomom1]

What is the name of your state? California

So, I've been preparing to go to court so that I could move my daughter to another school next school year.

I went to the courthouse and got our entire file and the current order says something really interesting...

In the paragraph where we are both awarded legal custody, it says that in the event that we can't agree on an issue pertaining to something, (it specifically names education) then EITHER parent can act ALONE and make the legal choice for the child.

!!!!????

Now, having been to court a couple of times, I can see how the court would say this because I know that they hate wasting their time on petty disagreements between parents, but wow.

So, I was originally going to petition and get a mediation and get a judges ruling on this, but now I'm kind of torn between doing that OR just going forward and moving her to the other school (it's our school district school, she's currently at an out of district school) and let HIM do the petition if he feels that strongly about disagreeing. I don't want to p*ss off a judge by dragging this into court if I'm technically entitled to make the choice if we don't agree.

Thoughts?

Have you even asked him yet? Any reason he would he have a problem with this? You are not moving, so I really don't see any reason that he would have a problem with it.

 

[proud_parent]

In the paragraph where we are both awarded legal custody, it says that in the event that we can't agree on an issue pertaining to something, (it specifically names education) then EITHER parent can act ALONE and make the legal choice for the child.

Thoughts?

My thought is that the word bolded above is most important. Your authority to act alone is conditional upon your first attempting to co-parent.

Joint legal custody imposes a duty upon both parties to cooperate in making parenting decisions together for the benefit of the children. Joint legal custody does not impose a duty upon the parties to agree. This is true of joint custody arrangements in general; your court order merely spells this out.

Because school enrollment is one of those issues that falls under the umbrella of parenting decisions the parties must discuss, bringing it up to your ex should be your first move. If you find that you are not in agreement, then reach out for mediation, counseling, or other means to assist you two in making a joint parenting decision.

DO NOT take this to court as a first resort. If you do so, you may then find yourself out of favor with the judge.

DO NOT make a unilateral decision to change the child's enrollment without discussing (and if necessary, attempting resolution) with your ex. If you do so and he takes the issue to court, you may then find yourself held in contempt of your custody order.

DO document your discussions with your ex on this issue, and if you disagree also document what measures you have taken to resolve the conflict. Then, if you are unable to come to a consensus and therefore make the choice on your own, you will have proof that you complied with the order.

 

[casa]

What is the name of your state? California

So, I've been preparing to go to court so that I could move my daughter to another school next school year.

I went to the courthouse and got our entire file and the current order says something really interesting...

In the paragraph where we are both awarded legal custody, it says that in the event that we can't agree on an issue pertaining to something, (it specifically names education) then EITHER parent can act ALONE and make the legal choice for the child.

!!!!????

Now, having been to court a couple of times, I can see how the court would say this because I know that they hate wasting their time on petty disagreements between parents, but wow.

So, I was originally going to petition and get a mediation and get a judges ruling on this, but now I'm kind of torn between doing that OR just going forward and moving her to the other school (it's our school district school, she's currently at an out of district school) and let HIM do the petition if he feels that strongly about disagreeing. I don't want to p*ss off a judge by dragging this into court if I'm technically entitled to make the choice if we don't agree.

Thoughts?

You first notify and attempt to agree. Then, you act alone IF it's in the Child's Best Interests & does not interfere w/the other Parent's Parenting time. ie; if the transfer would add a significant amount of travel time to existing visitation arrangements...or the transfer would increase cost for either parent, etc.

Why wasn't the child in the appropriate school for your District in the first place? And, why is it you wish to move her now? These questions are relevant.

If parents cannot agree, the 'favor' of the courts will be with the parent who made the most appropriate choice for the child. ie; if it were a debate about medication- the parent following Dr's recommendations are favored, etc.

And I agree with Proud Parent's post in it's entirety.

 

[proud_parent]

And I agree with Proud Parent's post in it's entirety.

Right back at ya, casa.


OP, I have just now gone back and read your two previous threads. What I'm about to state is based on statements you've made or actions you've attributed to your ex, such as...

...The vacation clause says that "exact dates and times are to be agreed upon two weeks in advance". I notified my ex a month in advance. He told me that he had plans that weekend so I couldn't take her.

I think I need to get an Ex Parte hearing set to clarify this...

...So, I'm trying to figure out how to state all this effectively to get me the best chances in mediation. It would be nice to just get the mediators recommendation and end it there, you know?...

...I don't want to piss of the judge. My ex has already taken me in a couple times and pissed off the judge anyway, so I honestly wouldn't mind if he did it again to create a pattern.

These and other posts make you and your ex come across as if you both are determined to parent through the courts. If you continue to appear before the judge for every conflict (even if your ex is the one filing the motions), you may succeed only in demonstrating that NEITHER of you has the maturity and flexibility contemplated by joint custody awards.

If you have not already done so, please consider informal mediation. In some CA counties, Family Court Services offers free mediation services to parents who want to resolve custody or visitation disputes without filing for a court hearing.
*Edited to add: if you prefer not to work through FCS, consider a California Community Mediation Center.
http://www.camediation.org/index.htm

If, as a result of mediation, you agree to changes that should be incorporated in your parenting plan (so that they become enforceable), petition the court afterward to include them in the order.

And please, look at mediation as an opportunity for your daughter's parents to cooperate in her best interests -- NOT as a forum for you to "win" your case.

 

[mrslunar]

Proud parent, you are right. But it's kind of one sided. I've tried to get us to go to counseling for years, and I try to make sure we are working together on major parenting issues. He tends to see things as "Our lives are totally separate" and if we don't agree, he always wants to go straight to court. So, I feel like I kind of get stuck in that position because he tends to say "I've made the decision, THE END" and doesn't want to talk about it. He's ceased co-parent counseling before, even though our agreement actually court orders him to participate in it. Like you say, I've seen how the judge keeps responding to him, and yes it does seem like it p*sses off the judges we've seen that he keeps dragging everything in there, so I don't want to do that if I don't have to.

FWIW, we did attempt to talk about it. He kind of has this MO of pretending to listen, then not talking to me for a week or two while he "thinks" then he makes whatever decision is opposite what I would like to see. That happened this time....I set up a time for us to tour the school, we did, he actually agreed with all the reasons to move her...but he just says no.

Additionally, my daughter is enrolled into a magnet school, currently, which is an academic magnet. We originally sent her there because, on paper, it's the best school in the district. The realities have hit us, though, in that if your child attends a school with a massive focus on it's test scores and reputation is that you get a school that teaches to the test, has excessive homework (2 hours plus a night from 1st grade on), and lacks any instruction other than math and reading. The school is actually only about 10 blocks from the school I'd like her to go to( I live equally between both schools and her dad lives an equal distance away from both) , which is just our normal, average, neighborhood school, has normal test scores, but has a broader spectrum of coursework (normal stuff like science, art, PE, band, etc). My main perspective is just that I'd like my daughter to have a more normal childhood and a more rounded school experience rather than crying over her homework every night and having to drag her homework with her on vacations and breaks.

I also want all my kids to go to the same school. Next year, my son will start kindergarten and I just think it would be nice for them to go to the same school. I don't like making my daughter feel "different", my son (and I'm pregnant again, so someday two sons) are from my current marriage, I feel like it will make it more "normal" for her to just go to school with her brothers.

For us, it is a hardship to have to go to this school because they don't bus, and our neighborhood school does. Especially when our son is in school, it's going to be a hardship to drive to two different schools at two different times, as opposed to being able to let them ride the bus together. This year it's been really hard on us, I started a new business and so it's all on my husband to have to take time off work to pick her up on our days, where as at the other school, she could just ride the bus, there is a bus stop at the end of our block.

So that's that**************...we have tried to talk and work it out, I'm kind of at a loss now how to mitigate his worries. His argument is that "She has friends at her current school". Thats pretty much it. He agrees with my concerns that the work load is excessive, and he's even tried to meet with the principal to get it worked on, to no avail.

So that's that**************I don't really want to drag every issue to court. FWIW, we haven't been since 04, thank goodness. My biggest concern right now is not pissing off the court and, as a result, losing parental control because we show we aren't mature enough to deal with it.

 

[Silverplum]

Additionally, my daughter is enrolled into a magnet school, currently, which is an academic magnet. We originally sent her there because, on paper, it's the best school in the district. The realities have hit us, though, in that if your child attends a school with a massive focus on it's test scores and reputation is that you get a school that teaches to the test, has excessive homework (2 hours plus a night from 1st grade on), and lacks any instruction other than math and reading. The school is actually only about 10 blocks from the school I'd like her to go to( I live equally between both schools and her dad lives an equal distance away from both) , which is just our normal, average, neighborhood school, has normal test scores, but has a broader spectrum of coursework (normal stuff like science, art, PE, band, etc). My main perspective is just that I'd like my daughter to have a more normal childhood and a more rounded school experience rather than crying over her homework every night and having to drag her homework with her on vacations and breaks.

I also want all my kids to go to the same school. Next year, my son will start kindergarten and I just think it would be nice for them to go to the same school. I don't like making my daughter feel "different", my son (and I'm pregnant again, so someday two sons) are from my current marriage, I feel like it will make it more "normal" for her to just go to school with her brothers.
For us, it is a hardship to have to go to this school because they don't bus, and our neighborhood school does. Especially when our son is in school, it's going to be a hardship to drive to two different schools at two different times, as opposed to being able to let them ride the bus together. This year it's been really hard on us, I started a new business and so it's all on my husband to have to take time off work to pick her up on our days, where as at the other school, she could just ride the bus, there is a bus stop at the end of our block.

A few thoughts, none of which you'll particularly enjoy.

If you send your child to a magnet school, EXPECT a lot of homework. EXPECT a focus on strong academic performance in the main basics. Geez. Is this a Giant Surprise for y'all??

Also, your son is your daughter's HALF brother. Don't skip around the realities to make a cozy snuggy vision. Tell the dang unvarnished truth and be real.

While we're being real, let's focus on the factoid that your big reason for changing schools, other than the Shocking News that a freaking magnet-for-strong-academics school has homework , is that you don't wanna drive. You want to put the child on the bus for YOUR convenience, for YOUR H's convenience.

I remain, as I often do, unimpressed.

 

[LdiJ]

A few thoughts, none of which you'll particularly enjoy.

If you send your child to a magnet school, EXPECT a lot of homework. EXPECT a focus on strong academic performance in the main basics. Geez. Is this a Giant Surprise for y'all??

Also, your son is your daughter's HALF brother. Don't skip around the realities to make a cozy snuggy vision. Tell the dang unvarnished truth and be real.

While we're being real, let's focus on the factoid that your big reason for changing schools, other than the Shocking News that a freaking magnet-for-strong-academics school has homework , is that you don't wanna drive. You want to put the child on the bus for YOUR convenience, for YOUR H's convenience.

I remain, as I often do, unimpressed.

I think that's way harsh. Siblings who are raised together, whether its part time or full time, don't regard each other as "halfs" or "wholes" they just regard each other as siblings. Therefore I honestly have a problem with your attitude that somehow a half sibling relationship is less important than a full sibling relationship. I thank god that my daughter and the mother of her sister don't have that attitude, because they are raising the girls to be sisters in every sense of the word.

Also, its not at all unusual for a parent (or in this case, parents, since dad clearly agrees that the workload is too much, since dad has talked to the administration at the school itself about it) to decide that a decision to enroll a child in a magnet school was a mistake. Therefore I think that sarcasm was unwarranted. Schools themselves certainly don't have that reaction.

The bus transportation issue was clearly last in order of importance, and something that clearly has no impact on dad at all, so I think that the sarcasm was unwarranted there too.

Mrslunar,

I think that you have sound reasons for wanting to make the change, and if you are being honest about what dad has said, its apparent that he does not have strong reasons for saying no.

However, I am not sure, despite that clause in your orders, that it would be wise for you to unilaterally make that change. Take the paperwork with that clause and go get a consult with a local attorney, and get their "take" on the situation. I am not suggesting that you have to hire one for the case, but do consult with one.

If you do decide to take it to court, you will have an opportunity to mediate, and hopefully that will resolve the issue. You have to do what you feel is best for your child, even if there is a chance that the judge will be annoyed.

 

[stealth2]

I'm wondering why this needed a new thread started... https://forum.freeadvice.com/showthread.php?p=1860213#post1860213

 

[Humusluvr]

I have to see this from dad's point here - the magnet school has better curriculum and better test scores. Why just give that up? Sure its hard, and maybe some issues need to be ironed out with the principal - but good parents go talk to the principal. so good for him. Challenge is good. Reading and Math are good. Test scores are good (mostly).

all the other reasons sound like they are about you, and you are trying to put them on your daughter. See it from dad's point, she's in the better school. He SHOULD fight for that!

 

[stealth2]

Additionally, my daughter is enrolled into a magnet school, currently, which is an academic magnet. We originally sent her there because, on paper, it's the best school in the district. The realities have hit us, though, in that if your child attends a school with a massive focus on it's test scores and reputation is that you get a school that teaches to the test, has excessive homework (2 hours plus a night from 1st grade on), and lacks any instruction other than math and reading. The school is actually only about 10 blocks from the school I'd like her to go to( I live equally between both schools and her dad lives an equal distance away from both) , which is just our normal, average, neighborhood school, has normal test scores, but has a broader spectrum of coursework (normal stuff like science, art, PE, band, etc). My main perspective is just that I'd like my daughter to have a more normal childhood and a more rounded school experience rather than crying over her homework every night and having to drag her homework with her on vacations and breaks.

I find the bolded portion to be completely lacking in credibility. Sorry. But given that CA requires HS students to take certain courses in History, a Foreign Language, Science and PE (in addition to Math & Reading/English), I find it impossible to believe that they don't teach ANY of that in elementary school. Sweetheart - we're not stupid. There is simply NO WAY that your daughter's school doesn't have science, PE or history. I'll give you art and band - maybe - but there is also a fine arts requirement to graduate HS in CA, so that claim also is a little difficult to believe.

My daughter is going to a science magnet HS next year, and they teach all of those subjects. 'Cause the goal is for them to be able to get into top tier schools after graduation - and that sure as heck ain't happening if they don't have history, science, etc courses.

<sorry - had a different poster in my head.>

 

[mrslunar]

A few thoughts, none of which you'll particularly enjoy.

If you send your child to a magnet school, EXPECT a lot of homework. EXPECT a focus on strong academic performance in the main basics. Geez. Is this a Giant Surprise for y'all??

Also, your son is your daughter's HALF brother. Don't skip around the realities to make a cozy snuggy vision. Tell the dang unvarnished truth and be real.

While we're being real, let's focus on the factoid that your big reason for changing schools, other than the Shocking News that a freaking magnet-for-strong-academics school has homework , is that you don't wanna drive. You want to put the child on the bus for YOUR convenience, for YOUR H's convenience.

I remain, as I often do, unimpressed.

I know I'm probably talking to a brick wall here, but it's kind of dissapointing how some members here are so vocal, and yet so NOT helpful. How some members insist on reflecting bad character traits on others.....projecting much?

If you have no advice, what's so hard about moving along? Isn't there any monitoring here to ensure people are *gasp* nice and respectful? God forbid.

 

[mrslunar]

. Therefore I honestly have a problem with your attitude that somehow a half sibling relationship is less important than a full sibling relationship. .

Also, its not at all unusual for a parent (or in this case, parents, since dad clearly agrees that the workload is too much, since dad has talked to the administration at the school itself about it) to decide that a decision to enroll a child in a magnet school was a mistake.

The bus transportation issue was clearly last in order of importance, and something that clearly has no impact on dad at all, so I think that the sarcasm was unwarranted there too.

Mrslunar,

I think that you have sound reasons for wanting to make the change, and if you are being honest about what dad has said, its apparent that he does not have strong reasons for saying no.

However, I am not sure, despite that clause in your orders, that it would be wise for you to unilaterally make that change. Take the paperwork with that clause and go get a consult with a local attorney, and get their "take" on the situation. I am not suggesting that you have to hire one for the case, but do consult with one.

If you do decide to take it to court, you will have an opportunity to mediate, and hopefully that will resolve the issue. You have to do what you feel is best for your child, even if there is a chance that the judge will be annoyed.

Thank you for that......I don't really think it's healthy for my kids to create a divide....my kids are my kids, I don't call any of them half anything. That's now how our family works, I'm glad someone gets that.

And you're right, the bus issue is kind of least important. I actually consulted an attorney who said to take it to court, and he was the one who mentioned that the court would take into considerations what he called "artificially inflated hardships", for example the transportation issue and the fact that we have to pay a lot out of pocket, currently, for her to be involved in activities that would be free/part of the curiculum at the school I'd like her to go to. The attorney also said that maintaining the sibling bond is an important thing...I don't really think the court views that issue as coldly as other members here do.

Anyways....I consulted an attorney, I'm just kind of wary of them because, well, they stand to make money off me if I hire them. And, back to the whole begining, I've seen how the judge has reprimanded my ex in court for brining frivolous things in. I've been lucky enough to keep my nose pretty clean in the eyes of the court so I'd like to keep it that way. I don't want to bring it if the court is just going to say "You could have done it on your own and not wasted our time". Sometimes, though, it's just the roll of the dice on what judge you get I guess.

 

[mrslunar]

I find the bolded portion to be completely lacking in credibility. Sorry. But given that CA requires HS students to take certain courses in History, a Foreign Language, Science and PE (in addition to Math & Reading/English), I find it impossible to believe that they don't teach ANY of that in elementary school. Sweetheart - we're not stupid. There is simply NO WAY that your daughter's school doesn't have science, PE or history. I'll give you art and band - maybe - but there is also a fine arts requirement to graduate HS in CA, so that claim also is a little difficult to believe.

My daughter is going to a science magnet HS next year, and they teach all of those subjects. 'Cause the goal is for them to be able to get into top tier schools after graduation - and that sure as heck ain't happening if they don't have history, science, etc courses.

<sorry - had a different poster in my head.>

My husband works for the state agency that develops the standards for what the state has to teach...I'm not stupid either, I'm well aware, honey bunch, of what they have to teach. FYI, most of those things aren't REQUIRED CURRICULUM until later in school, and even then, schools can, and ours does, chose to provide the minimum of what they consider extra. Oh you're right...she has PE.....four times a year. Seriously. But for what she's in right now, there is actually no curriculum requirement for anything other than essentially math and reading and that's what they do. Next year, they are required to integrate social studies, so that will be part of it. But, if you know 4th grade in CA, you'll remember things like the mission project and field trips and such. Her current school doesn't do that....they do the bare minimum because those things aren't on the STARs test and that is their focus....excellent STARs scores.

I really don't know why that matters or is important, but I'm not lying, and you aren't the judge I have to substantiate this to anyways.

And......new thread because really, the question, with which you were OH so helpful, was now "this is what the language of my CO states, am I interpreting this correctly or how can I interpret this so the court doesn't get pissed off at ME".

So, thanks for your help.

 

[stealth2]

This thread really is an extension of the one I linked. And frankly, your attitude throughout your posts doesn't make me inclined to help you.