ADA Service Dog Question

[SDUsr]

I would also like to underscore that a service dog (or therapy dog in this instance) is ONLY allowed when that animal accompanies the person to whom that dog provides service.

It seems that the person in the question takes her dog to the hospital to make people feel better. Great. Very nice.

But unless those same people accompany her to the restaurant, I don't see a problem with barring that dog from entry.

Lastly, as of this date, therapy dogs are NOT given the same rights as service animals.

A dog who is taken to hospitals to help others is a therapy dog, not a service dog, so even if the people from the hospital were with the dog owner in the restaurant (or other public place), the dog would not be allowed.

Otherwise, yes, real service dogs are only allowed in public places when they are working for the disabled individual they were trained for.

No dog has any access rights. Access rights are for the human handler. The disabled human has the right to enter and use public places just as non-disabled people do. This right is given regardless of the tools the person uses to get around and use said public places - tools including wheelchairs and service dogs. The two-step requirement for access with a service dog under the ADA is that the person is disabled (has a physical or mental impairment that substantially limits one or more major life activities*) and the dog is a trained service dog (has been individually trained to do work or perform tasks for the benefit of the disabled individual [meaning they do tasks that mitigate the person's disability - a dog that helps with balance is not a service dog for somebody who doesn't have a balance disability] and has been trained in public access [trained well enough so they don't get legally kicked out by disrupting the business]).

*(Note: The definition of disability also includes people who are regarded as having such an impairment and people who used to have such an impairment, but such people are not eligible for using a service animal because there are no tasks a service animal can be trained to do for them since they do not have an impairment that can be mitigated. That is why you generally do not see these two parts of the definition talked about in regards to access with service animals.)

 

[youthguy]

Another note--Organizations that Provide Service Dogs to recipients do so FREE OF CHARGE to the Recipient---including all vet bills for the animal for it's life---up to and including food (based on the monetary needs of the recipient).

It costs approximately $20,000-$55,000 to train ONE DOG to be a Service or Guide Dog.
(depending on what "actions" the dog is trained to perform).

Organizations that provide these dogs do so at a very large expense to the organization.

Service Dogs/Guide Dogs go through RIGOROUS training before they are allowed with a recipient---Dogs do often "fail" the requirements necessary to become a Service Animal, therefore know that a Service Animal you encounter is "Special" in that it has passed MANY MANY levels of "training" to be "Certified" as a Service/Guide Dog.VetDogs - Veteran's K-9 Corps
Southeastern Guidedogs Inc - Paws for Patriots

This is not accurate. There are programs such as the Inmate Training Program here in Colorado that require a payment as high as $2,500.00 They do not provided a lifetime of vet service. Also, a disabled person can train their own dog.

It is true that dogs that are trained by those wonderful programs that are out there often do fail.

That said, as a disabled person who uses a service animal it is interesting to note that the more liberal states are often the hardest to have access within. I rarely have an issue in Colorado, Texas, or Oklahoma. However, in Ca I often have an issue take for insistence what happened to us on March 28, 2009 in the Togo's and Baskin Robbins combined location at
1312 E ONTARIO AVE
CORONA, CA 92881 USA

That makes this funny is that we had no issue getting into SeaWorld or Disney. However, when we went to the Togo's Eatery we had major issues. We had broken our dogs harness on the trip and the backup vest we usually carry was forgotten on the trip. Again, despite this we had no issue at Disney or most other places. We took pains to explain to people before we entered a business by having my wife go ahead and explain the situation. We a few times where asked if we had the ID that it seems Ca. issues. However, since we do not live in the state we did not have this ID.

However, that all went south when we went into the Togo/Baskin Robins in Corona, Ca. My wife went in ahead with my Dad, Mom, brother, niece, and our two kids and they explained the situation. To be fair we are a little unique in that my current fully grown service dog is being retired early due to a car accident that caused her to lose her front teeth making it impossible to assist me with picking things up, but she can still assist me when I fall, carries the controller for my spinal implant, assist me up stairs, and provide some other specific jobs. Since I have a cane on my right side and difficulty using my left side she is trained to work off leash and has not broken from me whist working anytime in the last 6 years. She has ignored rabbits, children, birds, and even gunfire. She always stays with me. In fact, I use her to keep my kids with me. We have been known to put harness on our kids and attach them to the dog. People would think it was cute that our kids could walk the dog, but in fact....she was walking the kids and keeping them with me as they can out run me. She goes under the table, and does most of her job without me needing to even signal her. She just knows her job. That dog "Katherine the Great" or "Kat" as we call her. (Yes we spell it wrong on purpose) She had her vest, ID, and is clearly a service animal. However, we also have her replacement who is training and his name is Ivan

Ivan does perform some tasks such as retrieving items I drop, opening doors, and several other tasks that require him to use his mouth. So he IS a service dog. However, he is only 18 months old and is not done growing so he cannot yet train to take over the mobility part of the job. He needs to be fully grown (2 years old) for him to even begin training for this task. This was the dog that broke his harness. This was the dog that we felt compelled to inform the business of before we entered as he did not have his vest.

After my wife explained the situation to the manager we came into the store. We ordered our food, and I need to say that the #25 is one of my favorite foods since childhood. In fact, it is an essential part of any visit to Ca. for our family. So I ordered my BBQ and sat down to enjoy a true pleasure. However, my drink was wrong as it was supposed to be a mint chocolate shake and it had no mint. So I went back to the counter to get that fixed. At no time did my dogs cause any disturbance. They sat under the table or directly beside me as there was not sufficient room under the table for both. They stayed at my side, and obeyed my hand commands without me having to even look at them. Kat was off leash as that is how she is trained to work. Ivan was on a short handled leash that we have fashion on the fly as we could not find that wrapped around my waist as my normal leash is attached to the harness. As Ivan does break and can get distracted we were using a pinch collar, but he still had his normal collar with his ID.

So....I got to the counter and the manger begins to correct my order. However, she also informs me that they have had complaints about the dogs and that I needed to leave, but my family could stay an finish their meal without me. I explained they where service dogs. She again told me I would have to leave as I did not have the California issued ID. I begin to politely explain that this was not required under federal law, but was interrupted by someone from the only other party eating in the restaurant. It turned out they where the people who complained and the manager had chosen to ask me to leave right in front of them.

This person told me that she did not believe me since the dog in question did not have a vest. We quickly established that they did not question Kat but they did not believe me. The only adult man in the group called me an idiot and told me it did not matter that I was from Colorado, "I was in California now and no dogs are allowed in eating establishments." this continued for several minutes with me being harassed verbally abused and insulted in front of my family. When another customer entered the store the situation escalated. All of this was happening across the counter from the manager, and she never took any action to assist me. She allowed that this harassment and bullying to continue. I kept trying to explain ADA is a federal law, but the party shouted me down. Finally the correct shake was ready, and I picked it up, and at that point I was again asked to leave by the manger. This as well was done in front of the other party, and this added fuel to the fire resulting in an escalation on the part of the offending party.

The man than demanded to know if I was disabled and proof of my disability. I was embarrassed and felt cornered so I tried to explain that I have a low spin and a closed head injury. They demeaned proof of this so I turned around and lifted my shirt to show them my scar. I was than ridiculed for my scar. I was informed that they had scars as well, but those did not make them disabled. I was repeatedly called an idiot despite them having been told that I have a closed head injury. I was told that disabled people are not allowed to train service animals, by law service animals have to have packs, service animals have to have a license from the state they are in, that any certificate from another state could not be used in California, "You are not disabled", "You need to leave now," and that "service dogs do not use pinch collars even in training."

Eventually I went back to my seat, but on my way back I was still harassed. In fact, ever after I sat down they yelled to the back of the store and made comments like, "No dogs allowed in eating establishment," idiot, there is no way that dog is in training, and it is supposedly in training according to that guy the lair. At no time did the store do anything to stop this harassment. In fact, it seems that at least one of the members of the party where family members of an employee.

I called the corporate headquarters and left a message with a description of the incident and the address of the store as it was on a Sunday and they were closed. I got a call back late Monday asking me to return call back. I did call back on Tuesday, and was told they had lost the store address. I explained what had happened, and was told "we cannot be responsible for how other customers behave in our stores." I was also asked, "Why do think this our responsibility?" I had to repeatedly explain that I was asked to leave by the manger in front of the party that harassed me. However, the corporate headquarters kept suggesting that they had no responsibility in this matter. They finally said that since I did not have the address they could not do anything. This despite that I had the city and two cross streets, and that there is only 2 Togo's in the city in question. I have since called back to give them the address, but have been brushed off.

Why do I share this? Honestly, I share it partially to vent. Also, because every time someone "games" the system it makes it harder for people like me to have access when we are using our service animals.

 

[Antigone*]

Necrposting is bad decorum in our forum. If you have a legal question, please start your own thread. If you just feel like venting, please vent somewhere else.

 

[JKBee]

Originally Posted by cyjeff>

I would also like to underscore that a service dog (or therapy dog in this instance) is ONLY allowed when that animal accompanies the person to whom that dog provides service.

It seems that the person in the question takes her dog to the hospital to make people feel better. Great. Very nice.

But unless those same people accompany her to the restaurant, I don't see a problem with barring that dog from entry.

Lastly, as of this date, therapy dogs are NOT given the same rights as service animals.

I would like to comment on this statement. I use a service dog and recently I was expecting to be hospitalized for an indefinite time. My service dog and I have never been apart, and I could not just leave her home alone and uncared for. My son came and got her, forgetting to take her working harness and her vest. He had a doctor's appointment at a VA hospital in WA and was unsure of taking her in with him. DOJ states that a service dog can be allowed to be in the possession of anyone with a relationship to someone with a disability. He was challenged by a desk clerk to show her paperwork, and my son wasn't savvy enough to simply state that she was a service dog and no paperwork nor vest is required for her. It got blown up to where the woman at the desk called for the MPs to come and arrest my son for having a service dog with him that didn't belong to him. Of course, the MPs were smart enough not to respond, but this was enough grounds to allow legal action if my son were desirous of pushing this matter, I think. The DOJ does have a law that does allow for someone either designated by a handicapped person or related to a handicapped person to have the animal legally in their possession. Since I am currently dealing with this, I am not sure of the liability of the VA hospital or the individual involved. I am sure of the DOJ law on this, however.

 

[divona2000]

JKBee
I'll second what Wirelessany1 said back in April to youthguy...

"Necrposting is bad decorum in our forum. If you have a legal question, please start your own thread. If you just feel like venting, please vent somewhere else."

 

[SDUsr]

DOJ states that a service dog can be allowed to be in the possession of anyone with a relationship to someone with a disability.

The DOJ does have a law that does allow for someone either designated by a handicapped person or related to a handicapped person to have the animal legally in their possession. Since I am currently dealing with this, I am not sure of the liability of the VA hospital or the individual involved. I am sure of the DOJ law on this, however.

Sorry, there is no such law. A service dog is for a disabled individual (which also negates cyjeff's comment about the dog being allowed if ppl from the hospital were with the person). A service dog is only allowed in a public place where pets aren't allowed if they are actively working for their disabled person. Service dogs have NO access rights whatsoever. Only people do, and the ADA grants access to people with disabilities.

Your son was in the wrong to take your dog into the hospital (or any other place where pets are not allowed). The hospital was correct that the dog is not allowed there unless the dog is accompanying you while it is working for you. Your son has no right to have your service dog with him in public places because he does not have a disability that is mitigated by the tasks your service dog has been trained to do. In his hands, your dog is a pet. In your hands, your task-trained dog is a medical device that you are legally allowed to have with you (as long as your dog behaves and is not a threat to the public) just like a wheelchair or cane for somebody who needs those.

Your service dog does have the right to be with you in the hospital, as long as you meet the dog's needs (food, toileting outside, etc.) by either doing them yourself, having a family member/friend come do them, or hiring somebody to do them for you. The hospital (or any other public place) has no obligation to provide you with anything in regards to the care of your service dog (although I have heard of some hospital staffers beg to take a patient's dog out for a walk). Many people will have the dog with them in the hospital during the day and have somebody they know take the dog home with them at night while many others have their dog with them all day and night at the hospital while some others will not have their dog in the hospital at all. It depends on your needs (i.e. a seizure alert dog should be in the hospital 24/7 while some other types may not be needed during the stay), your abilities (i.e. if you will be operated on or not able to walk/wheel outside), and your situation (i.e. if you have somebody local to help care for the dog).

The state you and/or your son are in may have a law granting public access with a service dog in training to dog trainers, but I will assume from what you wrote that your son is not a trainer in any/much sense of the word (professional or owner-trainer), so those laws would likely not apply in your situation.

 

[cyjeff]

Sorry, there is no such law. A service dog is for a disabled individual (which also negates cyjeff's comment about the dog being allowed if ppl from the hospital were with the person). A service dog is only allowed in a public place where pets aren't allowed if they are actively working for their disabled person.

Which is what I was trying to say... but poorly.

 

[JKBee]

Sorry, there is no such law. A service dog is for a disabled individual (which also negates cyjeff's comment about the dog being allowed if ppl from the hospital were with the person). A service dog is only allowed in a public place where pets aren't allowed if they are actively working for their disabled person. Service dogs have NO access rights whatsoever. Only people do, and the ADA grants access to people with disabilities.

Your son was in the wrong to take your dog into the hospital (or any other place where pets are not allowed). The hospital was correct that the dog is not allowed there unless the dog is accompanying you while it is working for you. Your son has no right to have your service dog with him in public places because he does not have a disability that is mitigated by the tasks your service dog has been trained to do. In his hands, your dog is a pet. In your hands, your task-trained dog is a medical device that you are legally allowed to have with you (as long as your dog behaves and is not a threat to the public) just like a wheelchair or cane for somebody who needs those.

Your service dog does have the right to be with you in the hospital, as long as you meet the dog's needs (food, toileting outside, etc.) by either doing them yourself, having a family member/friend come do them, or hiring somebody to do them for you. The hospital (or any other public place) has no obligation to provide you with anything in regards to the care of your service dog (although I have heard of some hospital staffers beg to take a patient's dog out for a walk). Many people will have the dog with them in the hospital during the day and have somebody they know take the dog home with them at night while many others have their dog with them all day and night at the hospital while some others will not have their dog in the hospital at all. It depends on your needs (i.e. a seizure alert dog should be in the hospital 24/7 while some other types may not be needed during the stay), your abilities (i.e. if you will be operated on or not able to walk/wheel outside), and your situation (i.e. if you have somebody local to help care for the dog).

The state you and/or your son are in may have a law granting public access with a service dog in training to dog trainers, but I will assume from what you wrote that your son is not a trainer in any/much sense of the word (professional or owner-trainer), so those laws would likely not apply in your situation.

Excuse me, but DOJ states: "to be protected by ADA, one must have a disability or have a relationship or association with an individual" to have possession of a service animal.

 

[lleyoop]

Service dog not allowed in mothers apt.

I have a service dog and the co op that my mother lives in wrote her a letter saying I can not bring my srrvice dog into the apartment. She wears a vest and has a card declaring her as a service animal. They want me to appear in front of them explaining in writting my disability with a letter from my doctor. They also want to see where my dog was trained and the paper work which makes her a service dog. I have a problem finding justification for allowing the service dog into private housing. Everything I have read refers to public housing and public places. What are my rights with my service dog in my mom's apartment?

 

[divona2000]

lleyoop, necroposting is bad decorum. Please start your own thread to ask your legal question, this one is old

 

[lleyoop]

What is necroposting? I new to this I don't know the rules.

 

[las365]

Welcome to the board!

Necroposting is posting in old, dead threads Highjacking is using someone else's thread about his problem to ask questions about your own situation.

On this board, the etiquette is to start your own thread to give a brief, to the point description of your situatin and ask your questions about the law or laws that apply.

Go ahead and start yours now. You may not get many answers until tomorrow since it is late, so be sure to check back.

 

[gem615]

MAKES MY BLOOD BOIL As a Disabled Person w/ Service Dog!

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Utah

A lady comes into the restaurant that I manage with a Dog. When ever she is asked about the dog she says it is a "service animal" then describes its duties as visiting hospitals and schools to make sick people feel better. This describes a "therapy dog". I asked her flat out.."Is this a service animal?" she said yes. THen I asked "What tasks does it do for you"?. She would only talk about how it goes to hospitals and stuff.

This lady is crazy! (Like for Real). Based on the info she gave me, the "therapy" dog has no public access rights. I fear that the dog may also be a Emotional support Animal because it is very "pet like". Perhaps it may be a Psychotic Support Animal for her own lunacy but she may be too embarrassed to tell me that it performs services for her.

Emotional support animals do not have public access rights (I think) but Psychotic support animals do. (I think) How can I decide if she is legit or not?

She has threatend me with a 25K fine but I feel she needs to do a better job describing the tasks the dog performs for HER! SHe has never told me that!

Please help.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Though I may be posting a bit late, I feel compelled to answer this question & address all of the MISinformation in many of the other responses here.

AS A DISABLED PERSON WITH A SERVICE DOG, I can tell you that there is nothing that makes my blood boil more that either people that take advantage (claiming a non-service animal is a service animal) or misinformation as to what is legal or not.

First, ALL SERVICE ANIMALS (doesn't necessarily have to be a dog - there are also mini-horses, etc. used - believe it or not! and access to public places is mandated & protected by FEDERAL LAW. States may have some regulation, but FEDERAL LAW OVERRIDES ANY STATE LAW (for those replies that say otherwise).

A SERVICE ANIMAL DOES NOT NEED TO BE OFFICIALLY LICENSED by any organization to be a legal Service Animal, BUT to be considered a Service Animal (by FEDERAL LAW), it needs to perform AT LEAST 2 tasks for the handler that are of benefit/ provide assistance to THAT handler - PERIOD!

NO ONE HAS THE RIGHT TO DENY SERVICE/ ACCESS TO SUCH A HANDLER W/ ANIMAL THAT IS IDENTIFIED (either by Service Dog/ Animal identifying collar and/OR cape/vest that states such) AS A SERVICE DOG/ ANIMAL FOR THAT PERSON/ HANDLER that it is with.

NO ONE HAS THE RIGHT TO QUESTION THAT PERSON AS TO THEIR DISABILITY OR NEED FOR THE DOG (AGAINST FEDERAL LAW), BUT You may ask if the Service Dog/ Animal is THEIRS (which is based upon the automatic assumption that they do then, have a disability AND as no other person should be in possession of such an animal). THE ONLY OTHER QUESTION YOU MAY ASK (by FEDERAL LAW) is IF IT IS A SERVICE DOG/ ANIMAL - should it not be properly identified via collar/ cape/ vest (this also applies to an answer of ASSISTANCE DOG/ ANIMAL- since this is Federally recognized as being the same as a SERVICE DOG/ANIMAL providing physical assistance for a disabled person). ALSO NOTE: that a SERVICE DOG IN TRAINING is also allowed public access - though the trainer/handler may not actually be disabled, they are obviously in training to provide such service (which is the only way for the animal to gain experience/ training in such settings).

THE ONLY TIME YOU CAN DENY SERVICE is IF a Service Dog/ Animal is NOT UNDER FULL CONTROL OF THE HANDLER - e.g. barking, creating a threat to another person, etc. = obvious behaviors that can compromise the safety of another person/ customer or blatently disrupts business in a dangerous/ threatening way ONLY.

IN REGARD TO YOUR QUESTION/ THIS WOMAN (whom I would personally, as a disabled person, give HOLY hell to for her blatent abuse) - She identified this dog as an animal providing service for OTHER PEOPLE in a hospital/ nursing home setting. THIS IS FEDERALLY RECOGNIZED AS A "THERAPY DOG" which IS NOT A SERVICE DOG. The ONLY access a THERAPY dog has is to THOSE SETTINGS ONLY = hospital or nursing home - NOT ALL OTHER PUBLIC ACCESS!

By your asking this woman if it is HER personal service dog & she replies in any manner that suggests that it only provides services in the hospital (AND SHE THREATENS YOU) - you need to correct her (nicely) as to it NOT being FEDERALLY RECOGNIZED AS A SERVICE DOG, BUT A THERAPY DOG AND THERAPY DOGS ARE NOT LEGALLY ALLOWED ACCESS TO PUBLIC PLACES OTHER THAN JUST THE HOSPITAL AND NURSING HOME ONLY. You can quote the ADA LAW on this one to her as well & hopefully she'll get the hint that you're on to her. By her 2nd reply answer (repeating hospitals/ nursing homes), to me it sounds like she is perfectly aware of the fact and taking advantage.

If you feel uncomfortable with any of this, make your life easier & just go to the ADA website (ada.gov) and print out the rules to hand to her (if she questions or threatens you again) and the scare the crap out of her by asking for HER NAME/ Number, etc. to REPORT HER FOR FEDERAL FRAUD!
OR go ahead and print out my reply and hand it to her.

People like that get me more P.O.'d than people that illegally park in handicapped parking (and especially when there is no other handicap parking available!) SHAME ON YOU LADY, SHAME ON YOU!!!


ALSO, NOTE that a Service Dog is NOT A PET but actually considered as medical equipment, much the SAME as a walker/ crutches, etc., as I/ my accountant actually & LEGALLY can and do write him (and all his costs & expenses - food, vet bills, etc.) off on my Federal Tax Return EVERY year.

 

[Wolfladylinda]

Service Animal

There is most certainly a Federal Law pertaining to Persons with service animals. the Federal law overrides all local, city and state laws concerning service animals.
There is no requirements to show licensure. However a therapy dog is not a service animal, since it not for the assistance of a person with a disability.
Refer to the Americans with Disability Act of 1990. You will see that it is a Federal Regulation.

 

[cbg]

This thread originated nine months ago. Quit necroposting, already!