Adding audio to survelliance system

[Just Blue]

I would very much appreciate any further info you could provide. The gross ignorance of the posters referring to lawsuit over pants is just hurtful. Our issues are not about the usual neighbor stuff. We have been terrorized and the quality of our lives has been seriously damaged by the endless harassment of the neighbors. This is matter has escalated to a level where someone will likely get hurt or killed if the harassment does not stop. The police are aware of this fact and they are actually trying to prevent this from happening. I am trying to prevent criminal charges from being filed against me as a result of false allegations by filming and taping, which should keep everyone honest about what's going on. The video tapes presented to the police resulted in charges of two counts of assault, driving to endanger, 2 counts of criminal harassment, indecent exposure and trespassing against the neighbors. Hardly a lost pair of pants at the cleaners. I've noticed people come to this site who are already hurting, and an abundance of jerks are lurking around waiting to attack rather than help. It's really shameful - like re-victimizing the victim.

Thanks again for your information.

Donavan...I know, human nature being what it is, you want to believe that Quaere is correct and all other here are just jerks, taking joy in your pain. But I assure you that is not the case. Quaere is wrong.
You need to invest in a Criminal Law Attorney to get your answers...since you discount what I (also a resident of Massachusetts, that has worked in a field that dealt with ALL law enforcement...both Federal And State...) and other respected members of this forum have told you in this matter. Go and get a consult.

 

[donovanatee]

I have a criminal attorney, a civil attorney, and my two best friends are attorneys but do not live in Massachusetts and do not specialize in this area of law. All differ on their interpretation of it.

I have not discounted what you said at all. In fact I fear you may be right.
I am hoping however, that there is a possibility that there are circumstances that
would make it legal for me to record sound that is audible throughout the entire neighborhood. I am deeply sick of having some cop tell me that the neighbors claim
I said "blah, blah, blah". I say NOTHING. Absolutely Nothing, ever.
I would like them to do the same, and plan on doing everything in my power to see that
they keep their foul mouths closed and I am assured safe passage to and from my home.

I've had four consults on the criminal side of this matter alone. My legal bills are
nearing 20K at this point just to keep above the fray and stay out of jail as I fear I may finally lose my temper and beat one or both of these people to death. I've been pursuing this matter legally, and intend to continue to do so.

The guy who compared my situation to suing for pants IS a jerk. Caveman makes no sense at all, and you just insist that you are right and everyone else is wrong.
Do you know anything about the case law that was cited regarding consent vs. knowledge
of being recorded? Is your mind so narrow that you cannot entertain the possibility of
a different interpretation under certain circumstances of the statute?

I'm obviously in the wrong section of the forum, and will repost in criminal law as suggested by Quaere.

 

[>Charlotte<]

I may finally lose my temper and beat one or both of these people to death.

I can't believe you said that. Even in an "I'm just frustrated" kind of way.

 

[Just Blue]

The guy who compared my situation to suing for pants IS a jerk. Caveman makes no sense at all, and you just insist that you are right and everyone else is wrong.
Do you know anything about the case law that was cited regarding consent vs. knowledge
of being recorded? Is your mind so narrow that you cannot entertain the possibility of
a different interpretation under certain circumstances of the statute?

Caveman is a member that will post on a thread to add a little levity.

I NEVER said that I was right and "everyone else" was wrong. I corrected a newbie who posted something about AZ. which had nothing to do with Ma. law. I disagreed with Quaere who IS wrong. All others that have responded are on the same page. I am very far from narrow minded but I don't believe that there is much room in this law for creative interpretation. By all means repost in CLF.

Please remember that ALL who respond to your thread, volunteer their time and knowledge to help you and others like you...Just because you are unhappy with their advice doesn't mean they are jerks. Most everyone on this thread has been very nice and respectful to YOU. We are not causing your problem with your neighbor and to take your frustration out on us is very unfair.

 

[donovanatee]

I can't believe you said that. Even in an "I'm just frustrated" kind of way.

Have you ever watched the evening news???
People snap. A well respected doctor on Cape Cod shot her husband to death on Easter Sunday. She claims that he had been abusing her for years, and that she finally lost it.

It happens.

I am saying I am afraid it could happen. I don't want it to happen. I am desperately trying to prevent it from happening. If these idiots go near my kids again I am really afraid it might happen. You don't know what we have put up with. The police chief himself said he didn't know if he could have contained himself under the circumstances we faced last year when these hostilities seriously heated up.

I said it, and I mean it. I'm afraid if I don't get some sort of answer after two years of pursuing the legal system, spending 20K on attorneys, and another 15-20K on fences, alarm system, and continually upgrading survelliance system, I might just lose it.

I'm not threatening to do it, I'm just afraid I might lose control and seriously hurt or even kill one or both of these people after TWO YEARS and tens of thousands of dollars trying to establish reasonable legal boundaries if they don't cut the crap.

 

[Quaere]

I can believe he said it. People are beaten to death every day for less. The point of civil law is to provide recourse for someone that is the victim of uncivilized behavior. Too often, the recourse offered is too slow or expensive to assist the victim.

The shortcomings of our civil justice system have led to extreme actions on the part of many otherwise reasonable people. It is the chief reason I am reluctant to respond to anyone’s question about their legal rights with a thoughtless response like, “Let it go, give it up, you have no case so forget it, blah blah blah”.

BTW, the plaintiff in the “pants case” had a legitimate claim, his mistake was in taking the case beyond small claims court.

 

[donovanatee]

"I am very far from narrow minded but I don't believe that there is much room in this law for creative interpretation"

Are you an attorney? Do you have any experience in this area of the law?
You haven't answered my questions, and your responses have been rather arrogant
and school marmy.

I'm not blaming you or taking frustrations out on you, I'm just questioning your
reasoning and your approach. You have refused to address the case law cited by
another poster that addresses consent vs. knowledge.

My current lawyer told me she gets $750.00/day. Turns out she gets $750 per appearance. One day in court on two separate matters cost me $1500 bucks.
The language of the law is open to interpretation. I am trying to find case law
in this particular area that might help me eliminate the "he said, she said" crap
we are always dealing with, and stop the screaming. While you very well may be
100% correct, I would like to look for any case law which might show that the language
of this law is open to interpretation. I have re-posted my question in the criminal law section, where I hope to find reasonable people with more experience in this field.

 

[Quaere]

Donovanatee:

The language of the law is not subject to interpretation as far as your question is concerned. Orcon answered this question way back in post 28. As Orcon said the statute is here:

http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/272-99.htm

Orcon correctly stated that the question of legality turns on whether the recording was made secretly. He/she goes on to question what action is necessary to avoid an allegation of secrecy.

Taking the statute as a whole, it is quite clear that recording someone is a crime only if it is done without his knowledge. A sign on OP’s property, in full view of the offending neighbors, stating that the property is protected by AUDIO and VIDEO recording equipment, should be sufficient.

Care should be taken to ensure the audio equipment is only sensitive enough to pick up sounds that reach OP’s property.

For those having difficulty understanding this law,

Please note the statute addresses the “Interception of wire and oral communications”.
The preamble clearly states that the statute addresses THE SECRET USE of recording devices and section B, which defines the terms as used in the statute, states under paragraph 4: The term “interception” means to secretly hear, secretly record, or aid another to secretly hear or secretly record the contents of any wire or oral communication through the use of any intercepting device by any person other than a person given prior authority by all parties to such communication;

Thus, if you haven’t SECRETELY recorded anything, you have NOT intercepted it.

Also, it is important to note that freedom to record something is very different than how you may later USE that recording.

 

[Ozark_Sophist]

By your own admission, you have spent in excess of $35K on a problem with no solution. You should have taken some of that money and moved.

 

[Quaere]

I AGREE! At the first sign of trouble, I always run. I avoid a lot of trouble but then again, I am ALWAYS running!

 

[donovanatee]

By your own admission, you have spent in excess of $35K on a problem with no solution. You should have taken some of that money and moved.[/QUOT

$35K wouldn't begin to touch my moving expenses. I am asking for legal advice.
If you don't have any. Please refrain from posting. Thanks.

 

[donovanatee]

Donovanatee:

The language of the law is not subject to interpretation as far as your question is concerned. Orcon answered this question way back in post 28. As Orcon said the statute is here:

http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/272-99.htm

Orcon correctly stated that the question of legality turns on whether the recording was made secretly. He/she goes on to question what action is necessary to avoid an allegation of secrecy.

Taking the statute as a whole, it is quite clear that recording someone is a crime only if it is done without his knowledge. A sign on OP’s property, in full view of the offending neighbors, stating that the property is protected by AUDIO and VIDEO recording equipment, should be sufficient.

Care should be taken to ensure the audio equipment is only sensitive enough to pick up sounds that reach OP’s property.

For those having difficulty understanding this law,

Please note the statute addresses the “Interception of wire and oral communications”.
The preamble clearly states that the statute addresses THE SECRET USE of recording devices and section B, which defines the terms as used in the statute, states under paragraph 4: The term “interception” means to secretly hear, secretly record, or aid another to secretly hear or secretly record the contents of any wire or oral communication through the use of any intercepting device by any person other than a person given prior authority by all parties to such communication;

Thus, if you haven’t SECRETELY recorded anything, you have NOT intercepted it.

Also, it is important to note that freedom to record something is very different than how you may later USE that recording.

Thank you. I notified the entire neighborhood and the police department that I would be
videotaping my property 24/7 before I installed the system. I also informed them WHY I was doing it. I have no intention of secretly audiotaping either. I want everyone to know that I'm doing it with the hopes that they will STOP! I WANT them to know the audio is there.

If the neighbors would simply stop, I'd drop the litigation. I really don't get off on suing people, and I hate going to court. However if that's what it takes, then it has to be done.
I would use the audio as follows: The next time the guy screams hate speech at me
on the way home with my kids in the car, I will call the police. When they come, I'll show them the video with the audio. The cops will finally understand that these people are as sick as we say they are, and strongly encourage them to stop. Even though the neighbors are facing many criminal charges and there are many witnesses to several events, most of these cops are fathers, and seem to have a hard time believing that adults would say such things in front of their own children, or address any child the way these people do.

To be clear, we don't live in a trailor in the Ozarks. We live in one of the most expensive areas of the country, and have invested everything we have into our home. We bought when the market was high, and would lose considerably more than the cost of a U-Haul to move. Further, we purchased the house because of it's proximity to the school, which is in the top five grade schools in the state. I'm not running for the hills just because I live
next door to people who can't stay on their meds.

 

[Quaere]

To be clear, we don't live in a trailor in the Ozarks.

LOL, I almost commented earlier that I didn't think you were in the kind of neighborhood where such behavior was the norm. I stopped myself because every neighborhood has someone who doesn't really belong in it!

Of course I was joking when I said I would allow anyone to run me out of anyplace I want to be.

 

[Ozark_Sophist]

I'm not running for the hills just because I live
next door to people who can't stay on their meds.

It's clear you are the individual who needs medication. Your anger and death threats are clear indications of the need for counseling. I hope your neighbor's google search and find this thread.

By the way, your neighbor's have as much invested (financially and emotionally) in their home as well. A man's home is his castle.

I live in the area of $4 million plus homes, so don't knock Ozark trailers.

 

[donovanatee]

LOL, I almost commented earlier that I didn't think you were in the kind of neighborhood where such behavior was the norm. I stopped myself because every neighborhood has someone who doesn't really belong in it!

Of course I was joking when I said I would allow anyone to run me out of anyplace I want to be.

Thanks. I got it. I do have a good sense of humor, which has helped keep me sane
throughout this process.

Thanks again for your posts. People often mistake persistence for anger or "frustration" as Baystate alleged. Our neighbor problem has consumed our lives for two years, and
I have pursued every legal avenue available to me to resolve the problems. Obviously the neighbors cannot be reasoned with, and the criminal charges and lawsuit were a necessary means to an end. Most of their overtly criminal behaviors have stopped, and
all we want now is a lasting resolution to the matter. It's taken two years, but we are almost there. The police are seriously concerned and have been very helpful. The video/audio recording should keep everybody honest, or at least show who is causing the problem. The neighbors are desperate to get out of the charges and the lawsuit and will SAY anything to have it all dismissed. I am willing to do that, which is a HUGE concession on my part considering the emotional damage they've inflicted on my young children.
However they have broken their promises in the past, and should the nonsense start up again, I want there to be no question as to the who, what, where & when of the matter.
God only knows the WHY! Thanks again.