Advice for a confused parent.

[mommyto4]

What is the name of your state? Arizona

This posting is for a friend of mine that doesn't have computer access.

Father is NCP. Court ordered EOW, Shared Holidays and 2 weeks in summer. Daughter is 15 years old.

About 4 months ago daughter "decided" that she wasn't going to go to visitations anymore as she didn't like dads rules. CP (mother) allowed this and never brought child to meeting spot in the court order. Dad tried to go to the CP's house and daughter wouldn't go.

I suggested that dad file a police report and if this happened more than once to talk to his lawyer. CP has done it for 4 months to this date. Dad filing reports every attempt to pick up his child.

Dad had his day in court yesterday and we are all shocked. Judge rules that Mother (cp) doesn't have to "force the child to attend these visits. Child is 15 and really can't do much at this age." That was it. Nothing about contempt of visits and nothing on how to make the child go. However since dad brought custody on the mom filed for a modification in CS and dads CS will now go up 123.00 a month.

At this point what can be done. Judge told father that he does not have the ability for an appeal. This would be the first time in 10 years other than modification for CS that dad has been to court over this.

 

[nextwife]

What is the name of your state? Arizona

This posting is for a friend of mine that doesn't have computer access.

Father is NCP. Court ordered EOW, Shared Holidays and 2 weeks in summer. Daughter is 15 years old.

About 4 months ago daughter "decided" that she wasn't going to go to visitations anymore as she didn't like dads rules. CP (mother) allowed this and never brought child to meeting spot in the court order. Dad tried to go to the CP's house and daughter wouldn't go.

I suggested that dad file a police report and if this happened more than once to talk to his lawyer. CP has done it for 4 months to this date. Dad filing reports every attempt to pick up his child.

Dad had his day in court yesterday and we are all shocked. Judge rules that Mother (cp) doesn't have to "force the child to attend these visits. Child is 15 and really can't do much at this age." That was it. Nothing about contempt of visits and nothing on how to make the child go. However since dad brought custody on the mom filed for a modification in CS and dads CS will now go up 123.00 a month.

At this point what can be done. Judge told father that he does not have the ability for an appeal. This would be the first time in 10 years other than modification for CS that dad has been to court over this.

Gee! I wonder if the judge allows his own kids, at 15, to simply decide they don't want to go where their parents tell them?

I think that's a TERRIBLE idea to give a teen- that they have no responsibility to their family that supports them and that the ONLY important factor is what THEY want! MY parents sure never let ME decide I DIDN'T want to go visit Grandma or my aunt in the hospital, or a grandfather in the nursing home. Heck, in my teens I was taking may father to and from speech and physical therapy. You don't think there were things that might have been more "fun" for me? My parents taught me that responsibility is doing what is the right and proper thing to do, not simply what I liked or wanted. What a shame that a court can coopt such teachings, and let a kid think that THEY rule the roost.

What county are they in?

Can Child Visitation be totally denied a parent?

"The Court does not generally allow a custodial parent to totally prevent the other parent from seeing the child on a regular basis. However, this may be appropriate if the non-custodial parent has seriously harmed or abused the child, or is otherwise a serious danger to the child's emotional or physical health. An order of no contact by a parent is a last resort, and is used solely to protect the child.

The Maricopa County Superior Court publishes the guidelines established by the Court for establishing child visitation in a contested case. If you use the guidelines you might be able to agree on visitation arrangement that is best for the children and the parents, without the delay and expense of a contested court trial. If you are unable to agree, then the judge will have to decide what is in the best interest of the child when deciding what kind of custody and visitation to order. Often this is complicated, and we look forward to talking with you to help you understand your rights, duties, and responsibilities as to custody and visitation."

http://www.divorcesource.com/AZ/ARTICLES/dake5.html

 

[nextwife]

I found this on The Maricopa County court website:

What does the Judge consider when determining Custody and Parenting Time?

Arizona has statutes (rules) A.R.S. 25-403 that have specific factors that the Judge follows when deciding the best interests of the children. There are other factors that may not be written in the statutes, but may be important. These factors include but are not limited to the following: The court shall determine custody, either originally or on petition for modification, in accordance with the best interests of the child. The court shall consider all relevant factors, including:

1. The wishes of the child's parent or parents as to custody.
2. The wishes of the child as to the custodian.
3. The interaction and interrelationship of the child with the child's parent or parents, the child's siblings and any other person who may significantly affect the child's best interest.
4. The child's adjustment to home, school and community.
5. The mental and physical health of all individuals involved.
6. Which parent is more likely to allow the child frequent and meaningful continuing contact with the other parent.
7. Whether one parent, both parents or neither parent has provided primary care of the child.
8. The nature and extent of coercion or duress used by a parent in obtaining an agreement regarding custody.
9. Whether a parent has complied with chapter 3, article 5 of this title.
10. Whether either parent was convicted of an act of false reporting of child abuse or neglect under section 13-2907.02

http://www.superiorcourt.maricopa.gov/familyCourt/faqs/preDecree.asp#n2

So, unless there was actually evidence that the parenting time of the father was detrimental to the mental or physical health of the child, I'm not sure how simply allowing a child to stop visitation is in compliance with the statutes.

 

[fairisfair]

What is the name of your state? Arizona

This posting is for a friend of mine that doesn't have computer access.

Father is NCP. Court ordered EOW, Shared Holidays and 2 weeks in summer. Daughter is 15 years old.

About 4 months ago daughter "decided" that she wasn't going to go to visitations anymore as she didn't like dads rules. CP (mother) allowed this and never brought child to meeting spot in the court order. Dad tried to go to the CP's house and daughter wouldn't go.

I suggested that dad file a police report and if this happened more than once to talk to his lawyer. CP has done it for 4 months to this date. Dad filing reports every attempt to pick up his child.

Dad had his day in court yesterday and we are all shocked. Judge rules that Mother (cp) doesn't have to "force the child to attend these visits. Child is 15 and really can't do much at this age." That was it. Nothing about contempt of visits and nothing on how to make the child go. However since dad brought custody on the mom filed for a modification in CS and dads CS will now go up 123.00 a month.

At this point what can be done. Judge told father that he does not have the ability for an appeal. This would be the first time in 10 years other than modification for CS that dad has been to court over this.

Although I agree with nextwife in theory, the problem here appears to be this; MOM is not in contempt. She is not restricting the access to the child. It is the CHILD who is refusing.

 

[nextwife]

Although I agree with nextwife in theory, the problem here appears to be this; MOM is not in contempt. She is not restricting the access to the child. It is the CHILD who is refusing.

Not really. A parent DOES have control over their child. A parent hauled to court for educational neglect, for example, because their kid chose to not attend school repeatedly, isn't given the legal "out" of claiming "But your Honor, it wasn't MY decision, it was my CHILD's decision to not go".

The judge would then, normally, say "Parent, what efforts did YOU make to assure your child would be in school?" Did YOU take away privilages? Ground them? Did you encourage them to stay home? Why are you LETTING your child skip school?????"

Same difference. A parent should not give their kids a pass on following rules. A parent has options to enforce their rules, including witholding spending money and privilages. It's BS that a kid is simply ENCOURAGED to decide they can just do what they want.

 

[bononos again]

I found this on The Maricopa County court website:

What does the Judge consider when determining Custody and Parenting Time?

Arizona has statutes (rules) A.R.S. 25-403 that have specific factors that the Judge follows when deciding the best interests of the children. There are other factors that may not be written in the statutes, but may be important. These factors include but are not limited to the following: The court shall determine custody, either originally or on petition for modification, in accordance with the best interests of the child. The court shall consider all relevant factors, including:

1. The wishes of the child's parent or parents as to custody.
2. The wishes of the child as to the custodian.
3. The interaction and interrelationship of the child with the child's parent or parents, the child's siblings and any other person who may significantly affect the child's best interest.
4. The child's adjustment to home, school and community.
5. The mental and physical health of all individuals involved.
6. Which parent is more likely to allow the child frequent and meaningful continuing contact with the other parent.
7. Whether one parent, both parents or neither parent has provided primary care of the child.
8. The nature and extent of coercion or duress used by a parent in obtaining an agreement regarding custody.
9. Whether a parent has complied with chapter 3, article 5 of this title.
10. Whether either parent was convicted of an act of false reporting of child abuse or neglect under section 13-2907.02

http://www.superiorcourt.maricopa.gov/familyCourt/faqs/preDecree.asp#n2

So, unless there was actually evidence that the parenting time of the father was detrimental to the mental or physical health of the child, I'm not sure how simply allowing a child to stop visitation is in compliance with the statutes.

#2 may be the reasoning since the child is 15.

 

[fairisfair]

Not really. A parent DOES have control over their child. A parent hauled to court for educational neglect, for example, because their kid chose to not attend school repeatedly, isn't given the legal "out" of claiming "But your Honor, it wasn't MY decision, it was my CHILD's decision to not go".

The judge would then, normally, say "Parent, what efforts did YOU make to assure your child would be in school?" Did YOU take away privilages? Ground them? Did you encourage them to stay home? Why are you LETTING your child skip school?????"

Same difference. A parent should not give their kids a pass on following rules. A parent has options to enforce their rules, including witholding spending money and privilages. It's BS that a kid is simply ENCOURAGED to decide they can just do what they want.

No judge is going to require that the custodial parent physically force a 15 year old to go to visitation. That might not be in the best interest of the child, and I would certainly hope that mom is doing everything she can to facilitate child/dad relationship. But as much as some on here want to believe that Mom needs to pick up the child, truss her and throw her into Dad's trunk, that just isn't the case. Obviously the court saw no contempt in Mom's actions.

 

[nextwife]

No judge is going to require that the custodial parent physically force a 15 year old to go to visitation. That might not be in the best interest of the child, and I would certainly hope that mom is doing everything she can to facilitate child/dad relationship. But as much as some on here want to believe that Mom needs to pick up the child, truss her and throw her into Dad's trunk, that just isn't the case. Obviously the court saw no contempt in Mom's actions.

Who SAID that the child should be PHYSICALLY forced? We said you "force" a 15 year old by creating unhappy consequences when that child defies the parent. Geesh.



Re:

2. The wishes of the child as to the custodian.

#2 may be the reasoning since the child is 15.

Nobody here was discussing who should be the CUSTODIAN, They are talking parenting time, which is a different issue than custodial placement.

 

[fairisfair]

Who SAID that the child should be PHYSICALLY forced? We said you "force" a 15 year old by creating unhappy consequences when that child defies the parent. Geesh.

what you posted was information AZ superior court that has to do with the custodial parent preventing the child from visitation. and what you said was

"So, unless there was actually evidence that the parenting time of the father was detrimental to the mental or physical health of the child, I'm not sure how simply allowing a child to stop visitation is in compliance with the statutes.
Today 10:53 AM "

The court found that the mother did not have to
"force the child to attend these visits. Child is 15 and really can't do much at this age."

That is because the mother is not in contempt of the order. It is the child who is refusing.
Fact.

 

[mommyto4]

So I am confused.

We have a 15 year old child here saying that she doesn't want to visit her father. We have a CP that says that is fine the child doesn't have to see the father. We have a NCP here that is active in his childs life and wants only to have the court ordered time with the child. From what I am reading this is okay?

I have read lots of topics here and most of them asking "when the child gets to choose" etc and most of those answers are "when the child is 18".

So what makes this case any different? The father wanting to be a father is just pretty much screwed and the 15 CHILD can do whatever the hell they feel like?

 

[Silverplum]

So I am confused.

We have a 15 year old child here saying that she doesn't want to visit her father. We have a CP that says that is fine the child doesn't have to see the father. We have a NCP here that is active in his childs life and wants only to have the court ordered time with the child. From what I am reading this is okay?

I have read lots of topics here and most of them asking "when the child gets to choose" etc and most of those answers are "when the child is 18".

So what makes this case any different? The father wanting to be a father is just pretty much screwed and the 15 CHILD can do whatever the hell they feel like?

The judge makes this case different. Apparently, s/he didn't agree. I'd appeal, if I were the NCP. Regardless of what the stupid judge said.

 

[seniorjudge]

The judge makes this case different. Apparently, s/he didn't agree. I'd appeal, if I were the NCP. Regardless of what the stupid judge said.

There are stupid judges?!

I am shocked I tell you!

 

[Silverplum]

There are stupid judges?!

I am shocked I tell you!

There also are some very cute judges!

 

[MrsK]

The judge makes this case different. Apparently, s/he didn't agree. I'd appeal, if I were the NCP. Regardless of what the stupid judge said.

I'm with Silver. There is no way I would let this go.

 

[mommyto4]

Since the judge told him he couldn't appeal what does that mean? Do it anyways OR can he request a new judge.