Advice in PA support modification

[MrsK]

It is $200 a week total or $66.66 per child a week. He is employed in the Iron Union.

Oh, ok. I thought you meant $200 a month. BIG difference. It doesnt seem as low now...

 

[MrsK]

Thanks, I do understand all that but it seems petty since it really doesn't do anything for him or me by having to insurances. The only real help is Dental which then we can use the two toward braces. We've always covered themon my husbands policy but when the job changes it may not be possible and this threw the ex into a tizzy. Right now, the policy covers my husband, myself and the children. The insurance was obtained through my husband's employer; the employer pays half. The new employer pays only 25% of the cost.

Are you filing bills with BOTH insurances?? If not- do it. Usually when this is done, there is little or no out of pocket expenses.

 

[MrsK]

2) You will probably be imputed an income. Its hard to say how much. At the very least it would probably be minimum wage x 40 hrs per week. Its rare for states to include a spouse's income, not sure if your state is one that does.

In turn how would that alter what he pays me? Would it go up or down?

3) The court will not order your husband to carry the children on his insurance. He isnt a party to this. However, if you guys put them on the insurance, your ex will be responsible for reimbursing some/all of the cost of the children's portion of insurance.

It's a family plan, how do they figure what portion is our childrens?

4) If he was ordered to pay a certain % of medical bills- why didnt you get him to? Its unlikely he will get into trouble for that, because you never gave him the bills, but why not have him pay his portion? I'm kinda confused about your question here, b/c if you already pay everything, how is he arguing he wants you to pay more? If nothing else, I'd request that it stand the way that it is (80% him after you pay the first $250) and then start sending him bills.

I didn't get him to because it's usually like $40 or $50 and the trouble and degrading I go through when I ask for anything from him just isn't worth it to me. I'm not looking to go back and get it from him, nor am I trying to get him in trouble...it was a choice I made. I'm not sure what prompted this recent request of my ex. Except that I know when I buy the children ANYTHING and they tell him about it, his response is, well say thank you to me because I pay for everything she buys.


The court can not MAKE you get a job. They can impute you an income, though, and they will.

I haven't worked in 11 years, I love taking care of my children. That's my job and it was his choice when he insisted I quit my job way back then. Guess I best get an attorney on this so I don't get screwed around by his AGAIN.

Thanks![/QUOTE]

Its hard to say how much it will alter the c/s. Run the numbers through a calculator to get an estimate.

I'm not sure how they determine it in your state...take the amount and divide by the number of ppl on the plan. The number you get may be slightly different from the one the court will get, but like I said, it will probably only be slightly different and it probably will make very little difference in the calculation.

Of course, you didnt mention before that he already carries insurance on the children, so like Ceara said, he is doing his part. Although its possible, I doubt the judge would order you to provide insurance by way of your husband. If the judge does, or even if he doesnt and you want to keep the 2nd insurance (which your ex wont be responsible for paying any of since he provides insurance already...), you can file any medical bills with BOTH insurance companies, usually anyway, and there is often little to no out of pocket expense.

I guess I'm confused as to why your ex wants you to get your kids on your husbands insurance, since he has it...any idea why?

As far as medical expenses- get it in the order that you have X number of days to send it to him and he has X number of days to pay it back. Then, when you get bills, send them to him through the mail (certified, signature required, that sort of thing) with a letter saying something like "I am providing you with copies of bills I have paid. Your portion to reimburse me is "X". Please send the payment within the next X days, per the court order." and then you dont need to ASK him for the money, and he cant degrade you or give you crap, you really wont have any reason to discuss it with him. He has the bills, you'll have proof that he has them, he can pay them within the time, and if he doesnt, you can file contempt charges.

Like I said, you wont be forced to get a job, but they will impute you an income.

PS- If I were you, I'd get an atty...

 

[luvmy5kids]

Then that is YOUR fault. If you CHOOSE not to follow the court order for reimbursement of the medical bills, you don't get to complain that he's not paying them.

I've NEVER complained about the reimbursement of medical copays; just stated that I don't turn them in to him to save myself some verbal abuse.

As far as his snide remarks to the children, they are completely uncalled for. Children should never be put in the middle of their parents problems. However, I can understand why your ex may feel that way since you don't work.

I too can understand how he "might" feel. Whatever the court assigns to me I will understand. On the other hand, "I" handle 95% of everything in their entire lives. He won't help because he says to me "you have custody, you are responsible"...so I suck it up and do what I must. This includes taking care of our handicapped child who is going to college but can not drive because of the handicap; therefore I am the childs 24 hour taxi service.

Thanks for your insight, it gives me an idea of which way to go. Good day.




I haven't worked in 11 years, I love taking care of my children. That's my job and it was his choice when he insisted I quit my job way back then. Guess I best get an attorney on this so I don't get screwed around by his AGAIN.

Thanks!

You're wrong on this one. It was NOT his choice, unless he held you at gunpoint and FORCED you to quit your job. I don't know ANY judge that has ever agreed with a person that tries to claim that it is the other parties fault that they don't work. You are an adult and capable of making decisions for yourself. It also doesn't explain why YOU have chosen to not find employment since the divorce.

If you can stay home with your children because of your new husband's income, that's great. But your ex is not going to be penalized for it. Unless you are physically unable to work, the court WILL impute an income based on what THE COURT feels you COULD earn. As you have already been told, that will be a MINIMUM of 40 hours per week X minimum wage.[/QUOTE]

 

[GrowUp!]

So why shouldn't I say he should have his wife carry the children on hers.

Pretty simple: it's not her responsibility to support children that are not yours. How would you feel if you were ordered to support kids that are not yours?

Didn't think so.

 

[GrowUp!]

What is the name of your state? Pennsylvania
I have been receiving Child Support for my three children since 1998; one of whom is handicapped. I do receive a monthly annunity which has been factured in from the beginning as income. In 1998 ordered support was $289. In 1999 I was asked by my ex to voluntarily modify as he wanted to be able to do things with kids. I lowered it to $250. I remarried in 2000. In 2001 his "lawyer" files to modify again ... I went to the conference w/o a lawyer; my support was lowered to $200 and had children put on my husbands insurance for extra coverage. In 2003 it happened again, same scenerio and was lowered to $165. Finally "I" told my ex it needed to be raised so he voluntarily raised it to $200 in late 2004. FYI: Visitation is every other weekend and Wednesdays for 3 hours; it equals about 5 1/2 days a month total when you add up hours. He never uses up his alloted vacation time and rarely asks to have them any extra time. I provide the childrens with a home, food, buy all clothing, school supplies, lunches, haircuts, everything for the children...because he says that's what his child support is for; I must even send them all with enough clothing for the weekend as he will not provide any. Yet he thinks he pays too much support.

Today I get served with papers and you can just guess....he wants it lowered again. I know inflation keeps going up but my support just keeps going down! This time I don't think I should go w/o a lawyer.

Well if his insurance costs keep going up, then he has every right to ask for a downward modification, as many states consider insurance as "support."

This man has worked for the same business doing a Union job since 1994. During our marriage I stopped working to be a stay at home Mom at his request. We divorced 3 years later at which time I was still not working. We are now both remarried, I longer than he. I also have children with my new husband; he has not done so in his marriage. He was making about $17 an hour in 1997 when we divorced so he should be making at least the same today and his insurance is provided 100% by his employer. The reasons he is saying it should be lowered are:
1) Due to a change in the PA support guidelines. Does anyone know what changes in the guideline could actually affect our case?
2) He wants the court to treat me as I am to go to work and have me assessed at an earning capacity so he doesn't have to pay SO much. If my current husband and I have a situation in which I do not have to work and since I didn't previously what could the assess me at? I was told that when they combine his and my earnings my ex would probably pay more....is that true?

Well if you want to be a SAHM and your hubby is all for it, then why shouldn't his income be factored in? The support is not meant to support YOU. Quite frankly, since you are voluntarily unemployed, you really have no right to be complanining about HIS income.

3)He is requesting that the court have my husband insure his children through his employer so to cut down on what the balance is owed on bills. We have been doing this but now my husband is switching jobs and we are unsure if this company will allow him to cover the children as the present one does...at a cost of $164 every two weeks. Does a court order an employer to carry the stepchildren of an employee?

It's up to the insurance provider.

If my husband can't carry the children he wants the court to make me liable for more of the copay. Right now I pay the first $250 of each child; then he is pay 80% of anything over that and I 20%; he has never been given any bills to pay the 80% of as I always thought it was petty. He was only asked to pay his portion of braces one year. Will the court tell me I have to get a job?

Ordering the CP to cover the first (whatever) per calendar year is standard. Why shouldn't you have a job? Why do you think it's everyone else's responsibility to financially support these kids? If he asks an income to be imputed onto you, don't be surprised when it is.

Not that I don't want to work but financially it wouldn't do us any good. Two of "OUR" children would need day care during the summer and part time during school PLUS I'd have to do the same for the children I have with my current husband. Not to mention there is so much to do daily in our home with such a large family someone must be home just to get done the daily household stuff.

Blah blah blah...all excuses. If there is a financial issue, then you shouldn't have had another child. Period. You're not the only one with a large family and daily household stuff? What makes you think you are the only one??

 

[MrsK]

Well if his insurance costs keep going up, then he has every right to ask for a downward modification, as many states consider insurance as "support."
QUOTE]

I believe that she said her ex's employer pays 100% of the insurance. So he has no cost, and so no reason to modify that. Did I read that correctly? Someone feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken.

 

[luvmy5kids]

Its hard to say how much it will alter the c/s. Run the numbers through a calculator to get an estimate.

I'm not sure how they determine it in your state...take the amount and divide by the number of ppl on the plan. The number you get may be slightly different from the one the court will get, but like I said, it will probably only be slightly different and it probably will make very little difference in the calculation.

I'll just let the attorney handle that. At least I got an idea through this forum as to where I stand. I'm not looking for any more or less from him, just for him to support the children fairly and according to his income. That's it.

Of course, you didnt mention before that he already carries insurance on the children, so like Ceara said, he is doing his part. Although its possible, I doubt the judge would order you to provide insurance by way of your husband. If the judge does, or even if he doesnt and you want to keep the 2nd insurance (which your ex wont be responsible for paying any of since he provides insurance already...), you can file any medical bills with BOTH insurance companies, usually anyway, and there is often little to no out of pocket expense.

I was told by our support conference officer to have the children put on our insurance four years ago because: a) the employer allowed step children, b) ex said he might be getting laid off, and c) it didn't cost us anything then.

I guess I'm confused as to why your ex wants you to get your kids on your husbands insurance, since he has it...any idea why?

Our son needs braces and my insurance cuts down the price of the braces by $1500...if the children don't have my husbands insurance there is extra out of pocket for my ex on the cost of braces. Yet now that our eldest handicapped daughter is in college he doesn't cover her..we do, and he even amended his tax return so she wasn't on his so there was no way he was associated with her college tuition. This has always been him, just taking never giving. His support is always behind then he catches up just when they are about to come down on him...I suppose he just enjoys knowing he is causing me turmoil.

As far as medical expenses- get it in the order that you have X number of days to send it to him and he has X number of days to pay it back. Then, when you get bills, send them to him through the mail (certified, signature required, that sort of thing) with a letter saying something like "I am providing you with copies of bills I have paid. Your portion to reimburse me is "X". Please send the payment within the next X days, per the court order." and then you dont need to ASK him for the money, and he cant degrade you or give you crap, you really wont have any reason to discuss it with him. He has the bills, you'll have proof that he has them, he can pay them within the time, and if he doesnt, you can file contempt charges.

Like I said, you wont be forced to get a job, but they will impute you an income.

I don't mind that, the law is the law. I just don't want to be pushed into something just because I am afraid of him.

PS- If I were you, I'd get an atty...

I have an appointment next Monday!

 

[luvmy5kids]

Pretty simple: it's not her responsibility to support children that are not yours. How would you feel if you were ordered to support kids that are not yours?

Didn't think so.

I guess the same way MY husband does being ordered to provide insurance for kids that aren't HIS. I don't think that my ex's wife should pay anything toward my kids, it was a retorical question.

 

[luvmy5kids]

Well if his insurance costs keep going up, then he has every right to ask for a downward modification, as many states consider insurance as "support."

There has been no change to his insurance costs and he has not claimed that there was.

Well if you want to be a SAHM and your hubby is all for it, then why shouldn't his income be factored in? The support is not meant to support YOU. Quite frankly, since you are voluntarily unemployed, you really have no right to be complanining about HIS income.

I'm not complaining, the ex brought this on...I was just looking to find out where I stood. I don't really care if they tag me with an income assessment. I do have an income monthly and it is incorporated into all of it already.
It's up to the insurance provider.


Ordering the CP to cover the first (whatever) per calendar year is standard. Why shouldn't you have a job? Why do you think it's everyone else's responsibility to financially support these kids? If he asks an income to be imputed onto you, don't be surprised when it is.
When I remarried my husband wanted his own children and he makes more than enough for me to stay home and raise the 5 children. I don't think it's everyones responsibility to support my kids...again I do have some income. I wouldn't be surprised by anything.

Blah blah blah...all excuses. If there is a financial issue, then you shouldn't have had another child. Period. You're not the only one with a large family and daily household stuff? What makes you think you are the only one??

There is no freaking financial issue. PERIOD. Except the ex doesn't want to pay support, bottom line. Don't be such a smug jerk, I never said I was the only one with a large family...you just assumed that I did. I said my family is large, my husband makes plenty of money for me to stay home but it's also not right for the ex not to support his kids that he choses to see only 5 days a month.

 

[wondreing]

In PA, the nc parent is usually the one that provides insurance if they can get it at a reasonable cost. And if he actually paid towards his premium, his child support would go down some to offset your share of the costs. But since he doesn't pay, then he provides it and his child support stays the same. Since your husband and yourself need insurance coverage (as does your oldest child that I think I read that your ex doesn't have to provide coverage for) then you might want to keep the other two kids on your policy if it doesn't make the premiums go way up just to keep out of pocket expenses to a bare minimum. I know my husband is allowed to carry my children on his policy (with Keystone) and most insurances probably would allow step parents to provide coverage to children living in their home. But if the premium is too much for you to continue to cover them at your husband's new job, then I don't see where it is worded in any of the information I have from the domestic relations office that you have to provide double coverage. But without it you will have more out of pocket expenses and if they do go over $250 per kid per year, you really should send a copy of what you paid and a copy of the actual bill to your ex for reimbursement.

 

[luvmy5kids]

In PA, the nc parent is usually the one that provides insurance if they can get it at a reasonable cost. And if he actually paid towards his premium, his child support would go down some to offset your share of the costs. But since he doesn't pay, then he provides it and his child support stays the same. Since your husband and yourself need insurance coverage (as does your oldest child that I think I read that your ex doesn't have to provide coverage for) then you might want to keep the other two kids on your policy if it doesn't make the premiums go way up just to keep out of pocket expenses to a bare minimum. I know my husband is allowed to carry my children on his policy (with Keystone) and most insurances probably would allow step parents to provide coverage to children living in their home. But if the premium is too much for you to continue to cover them at your husband's new job, then I don't see where it is worded in any of the information I have from the domestic relations office that you have to provide double coverage. But without it you will have more out of pocket expenses and if they do go over $250 per kid per year, you really should send a copy of what you paid and a copy of the actual bill to your ex for reimbursement.

We've been covering my children for over 4 years now. My husband is switching companies for work; basically one bought out the one he is with. In doing so they audited us because of the number of dependants. All went well BUT we were advised that the new owners have a different plan and different rules. I went ahead and made my ex aware of the possible change and he ran into DR requesting they make the company or my husband cover the kids OR make me pay more out of pocket than ordered at this time. And then of course asked that I be assessed which I really don't care about just don't think my husband should be forced into anything regarding children that aren't his. Although, he gives them anything they want, does everything with them and has never questioned or complained about any of their wants or needs.

 

[ceara19]

We've been covering my children for over 4 years now. My husband is switching companies for work; basically one bought out the one he is with. In doing so they audited us because of the number of dependants. All went well BUT we were advised that the new owners have a different plan and different rules. I went ahead and made my ex aware of the possible change and he ran into DR requesting they make the company or my husband cover the kids OR make me pay more out of pocket than ordered at this time. And then of course asked that I be assessed which I really don't care about just don't think my husband should be forced into anything regarding children that aren't his. Although, he gives them anything they want, does everything with them and has never questioned or complained about any of their wants or needs.

Like I've already explained, the court can't order your HUSBAND to do anything. However you CAN be ordered to either provide additional insurance (if it is available at a reasonable cost to you) or to pay a higher percentage of uncovered costs. They way you are looking at this could hurt you in court. BOTH parents are equally responsible for providing for the children. You have CHOSEN not to work and rely on your new husband to provide YOUR part of the financial responsibility for the child. If your ex relied on his new wife to pay for his obligations to the children, the court would expect him to put the children on any health insurance that may be available through her employer. HE is not relying on his spouse to financially help with the children. However YOU are.

 

[luvmy5kids]

Like I've already explained, the court can't order your HUSBAND to do anything. However you CAN be ordered to either provide additional insurance (if it is available at a reasonable cost to you) or to pay a higher percentage of uncovered costs. They way you are looking at this could hurt you in court. BOTH parents are equally responsible for providing for the children. You have CHOSEN not to work and rely on your new husband to provide YOUR part of the financial responsibility for the child. If your ex relied on his new wife to pay for his obligations to the children, the court would expect him to put the children on any health insurance that may be available through her employer. HE is not relying on his spouse to financially help with the children. However YOU are.

Wrong!~ I do not rely on my husband to support my children from my previous marriage. AGAIN, I do have some income. The reason I stay home is because my husband and I have chosen to insure that OUR two children (ages 5 & 7) don't have to go to daycare which is the same opportunity my other children had. Yes, my ex does rely on his ex...he has missed a total of 10 weeks work this year already. Mostly for stupid reasons...his wife talks too much to me about him. Anyway she then pays his support once it goes into default.

Thanks for your responses. I will post the outcome after my hearing so everyone knows who of you were right or wrong.

 

[luvmy5kids]

Conference outcome....hearing de novo next

Thanks for your responses. I will post the outcome after my hearing so everyone knows who of you were right or wrong.

The Support Conference is over and the order is out. I did not take a lawyer although I did consult with mine and chose to go alone. Ex came with lawyer by his side.

As my ex requested: I WAS assessed an income as I knew I would be and as you all told me I would. My support went down $4.16 for two months then to my amazement the support goes up $17.08 a week, because one of Annunity payments stops in December. And I was fine with what my children were receiving.

As my ex requested: My portion of medical expenses went up but only 5% not the 35% he wanted; that's in addition to the $250 I have always been responsible for first.

As my ex requested: I was told by DR to carry the children on my husbands insurance

Found out at the conference: Ex has been making $4.22 more an hour from about 3 months after he went for a decrease in 2002. That's almost 4 full years paying at a wage of approx $14 and now is at $19.87 an hour. He went for a decrease in 2002 due to having taken a lower paying job because of job cuts during that time. Never reported to DR that he got his position back.

Yesterday, I received a Hearing De Novo Notice. I assumes Ex does not agree with Domestic Relations ruling, therefore we go before a Judge. No reasons came with the hearing notice. After paying his attorney $1000 to go to the conference with him and really not gaining anything, he will now pay even more to go before a Judge. At this point I don't think he cares about the life style his children live as much as he cares about his. If he did, he'd stop throwing money away on attorney fees which already exceed one month of support...after the hearing it will be a few months.

Since he felt the need to disagree with the ruling and have a full blown hearing my lawyer is:
1. Requesting that the court Deviate from the regular Support Guidelines; having my assessed income divided among my 5 children not just me and my ex's 3.
2. Requesting the court recalculate his income from the past years that he failed to report that he went back to his regular paying job for which he showed his 1040's for each year....and have him pay back support accordingly.
3. On the Deviated support formula he is requesting that the time spent with the father also be factored in as he only spends 5 days a month with the children.
4. Requesting that ex pay my attorney fees for the frivolous filing.

Does this all sound doable? The process and idea of court scares me but I have to go. Thanks everyone for reading, commenting and for your insight into both my and my ex's position. I do realize that everything is two sided and I didn't want more support. This was brought on by my ex. Happy Days to all.