After 19 years - I feel like I am being forced to quit job.

[aloha96778]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Minnesota


Hello, I am asking this question for a family member. She has worked for the same company going on 19 years now for the last 10 years she feels that her work environment has been unbearable due to bulling and harassment both by other employees and supervisors.

She feels she cannot bear to work at her employment anymore and does not want to quit but feels she has no alternative and needs to do this to better her mental health.

She does have O.C.D (Obsessive Compulsive disorder) which in in her file at work provided by her doctor that she does have this condition and has been medically diagnosed.

She stated she constantly is harassed and talked about within her work environment and other employees/supervisors in her department. They speak among themselves to where she can hear. How they think she is stupid, weird odd, mental why don't she just quit, how they don't like her etc.

At times they will say horrible things direct right to her face.

She says at times it is so terrible she will burst into tears. Which makes them tease her even more. She has reported at various times the harassment to her supervisor and all he has ever said is "what do you expect me to do about it?" on one occasion she was reporting the harassment to her supervisor and he was in the middle of opening up boxes with a box cutter.. He shook the box cutter at her and said "I'm tired of you complaining do you know I could do with these?

Another instance she said she cut her finger and was walking to the restroom to clean it up and her shift supervisor said where are you going? She said I cut my finger I am going to go wash it up in the bathroom and she said to her. Your probably going to get aids now. She said what did you say? He didn't repeat himself just ignored her. Well this is NOT something you say to anyone about Aids or any illness especially to someone who has O.C.D.

She said these are only a couple situations of the many that have happened to her over the years she stated that the harassment is pretty much on a daily basis now and has been for years.

She has gone to HR (Explained to them the situation) and asked to be moved to a different department or even a different shift and is always told there in no openings any where else and she has no alternative to stay where she is at. She has asked on multiple occasions throughout the years to be moved away from these harassing employees to no avail.

She stated this has been going on for over 10 years now and she can not take the harassment and abuse any longer. She dreads each day going to work and she said it really is not good for her health especially mentally. She does not want to quit as she has been with the company so long its basically the only job she has ever known but she said she feels like she has no alternative as she cannot take the abuse any longer.

She just now has opened up to her family members to let us know this has been happening to her for years. She said she felt ashamed to say anything to us before. I love my sister and want the best for her. This just does not seem right for anyone to work in this type of environment.

Since this is Minnesota you cannot collect Unemployment when you quit your job but one would think someone in this type of work environment would have some recourse. My thoughts are they are pretty much making it horrible for her so she does quit - she does her duties at work well and has a great attendance record she just feels she can no longer work in this environment. I actually do not blame her I would not want to either.

What rights does she have or any type of recourse. I think she should at-least be able to collect Unemployment compensation until she can find other employment.

She is 53 years old so finding other employment may not be real easy but she feels she has no other alternative but to get out the that environment and find something else.

Any suggestions or ideas on what she should do would be appreciated. She said she has tried every avenue direct at work to fix the problem and no one is willing to help the situation from direct supervisors, HR or upper management. She has exhausted all avenues as far as tying to get the work place to help with the situation. She is going to be giving her notice to quit in about 2 months.

Thank you for your time.

 

[cbg]

I am asking this for a reason, and what you say in response makes a great deal of difference to what, if any, recourse she has. So be as complete and accurate as possible, please.'

Describe the nature of the things that have been said; both in her hearing and to her face.

 

[aloha96778]

Thing said like this.

They speak among themselves to where she can hear.

How they think she is stupid,
weird,
odd,
mental,
why don't she just quit,
how they don't like her etc.

They have said each of these to her face direct also but mainly they talk about her behind her back but in close enough range to where they know she can hear them.

Another instance she said she cut her finger and was walking to the restroom to clean it up and her shift supervisor said where are you going? She said I cut my finger I am going to go wash it up in the bathroom and her supervisor said to her. Your probably going to get aids now. She said what did you say? He didn't repeat himself just ignored her.


on one occasion she was reporting the harassment to her supervisor and he was in the middle of opening up boxes with a box cutter.. He shook the box cutter at her and said "I'm tired of you complaining do you know what I could do with these?

So various things like what I mentioned above.

These are only a few of the things she has told me over the phone that has happened so I do not know all what has been said or done as it is not happening to me. I asked if she has been keeping a log of things that have been said etc and she just said HR would have it in a file as she reports it all to HR. But I doubt if HR would have anything like that listed in it not sure what they keep in their records.

 

[commentator]

Perhaps there is a case in there somewhere, but when you say "for the last ten years her work environment has been unbearable because of the harassment from both coworkers and supervisors. Okay, I am not trying to be mean here, all right? But UNBEARABLE means you can't stand it, and she has stood it for ten years????? It sounds to me like maybe she is the one who is getting worse. And it sounds to me like there has not been any clear cut, defined incident during the most recent part of this ten years or so that things have been so awful that she has had something specific happen that has been way over the top as far as awful unbearable things that happened to her.

How long ago did the cutting the finger occur? Why did she not immediately report the injury to the supervisor? I believe that any on the job injury, even a cut finger should be reported at once. Just because someone came up, with no witnesses and said something that possibly to an OCD person would be scary or hurtful is not a case for a justified reason to quit the job. Especially when it happened here a while back and she didn't walk out right then.

Quote: "Since this is Minnesota you cannot collect Unemployment when you quit your job but one would think someone in this type of work environment would have some recourse. My thoughts are they are pretty much making it horrible for her so she does quit - she does her duties at work well and has a great attendance record she just feels she can no longer work in this environment. I actually do not blame her I would not want to either.

What rights does she have or any type of recourse. I think she should at-least be able to collect Unemployment compensation until she can find other employment.

She is 53 years old so finding other employment may not be real easy but she feels she has no other alternative but to get out the that environment and find something else."


First of all, read about unemployment and quits on the Minnesota unemployment system. Pretty much if you quit a job, you must be able to show that you had a valid serious reason to quit your job, and that you had exhausted all reasonable alternatives to quitting before you quit. It is NOT needs based, or they do not consider a person's age, or handicap or likelihood of obtaining another job in the approval or denial process.

If something bad happened to her on the job, and she continued to work, for three or four years, that pretty much did away with her chances of showing it was a valid serious reason to quit her job. She has, it sounds like,been working with a bunch of jerks, and they have been treating her kind of rough for a long time with no repercussions. She has spoken to Hr and to her supervisors when various of these incidents have occurred, and nothing has happened to improve the situation. But they weren't unbearable, and she has hung in there for all these years. Nineteen to be exact. Is there a possibility, and I mean this in the kindest of ways, that she has gotten worse lately? If so, quitting may be the best thing for her do, but really if she is going to have to find other employment, why can't she be looking for something while she keeps this job? Unemployment is only for those who are out of work through no fault of their own and who are able, available and actively seeking other work. Since the employer is not trying to fire her, if she quits it will be of her own volition, and she will be out in the job market trying to find something else, without unemployment approval, most likely.

You do understand that if she does get approved for unemployment benefits it will be for a maximum of six months, and at a much lesser rate than she making now, don't you?

Best case scenario, regardless of the reason is that a person has another job to go to before they quit the job they have. Since she has worked on and on and on in this bad environment, I'd encourage her, not being mean here, but I'd encourage her to find another place before she ups and gives that notice unless she is going to be okay with not working and not getting any supplements or assistances from the government.

It takes a long time to be approved for disability, even if a person is really in need of it. As I mentioned, unemployment even if it were to be approved, which I don't see as highly likely here, is only for a short time and is not much money. A person who has been in the same place for 19 years needs to look hard and long at what sort of place they might move into if they leave this one.

What I would advise her to do is speak again to her supervisors, and tell them, not just based on anything specific, but in general, that she is having real problems with the work environment. She should mention past incidents, but remind them that she has continued to try to do the job to the best of her abilities, that she has accepted the bad treatment, but that it has worsened to the point that she cannot tolerate harassment based on her handicap any more.

She should remind the HR people that she does have a documented handicap, and remind them that she needs some degree of care and concern from them to work successfully.

Then I would wait, and when another incident of harassment happens, then she should talk to HR, and then leave at that point. If she gives her notice in a few weeks from now, just based on the whole experience she's had working there for nearly 20 years, there will not be a very good chance AT ALL that she will be able to draw unemployment based on what has happened to her during the last 19 years.

Because all during those years, she has continued to work thus accepting the conditions and terms of the work) and be paid, and accept the terms and conditions of employment. What would draw the line and make it more likely she would be found to have a valid work related reason to quit and be approved for unemployment benefits is if she has another incident of harassment or someone saying something mean to her on top of her experiences and efforts to resolve the situation.

Giving notice after 19 years of work, with no precipitating incident, is a voluntary quit. She can file for unemployment and she can tell them, "I was being mistreated for 10 years or more, and finally I just decided, based on everything they have done to me, that I couldn't stand it anymore, so I just gave my notice and quit." And they will say by decision, you have a voluntary quit. You cannot draw unemployment because you have voluntarily chosen to quit the job. End of appeal, end of story. It may be better for her mental health, but she won't likely be approved for benefits if this is what she does.

We used to call it the "my boss slapped me last February" situation. If your boss slapped your face last February, that was surely a valid reason you should have quit your job at that time. If you did not quit, kept working, and now, next January, you quit your job because you've thought about it and decided that your boss slapping you last February was unacceptable, you do not have a good case to be approved for unemployment benefits. You accepted the terms of employment, which was your boss treating you awful, for a long time, and then one day walked out, and that does not make an unemployment approvable case.

But if something else happens, I'd counsel her to walk off right then. Do not sit on it and take it and take it. No notice is required, a person can leave a job without notice, and that's what she should do if someone does anything else to her that upsets her or is mean. BUt if she doesn't have a precipitating incident, her chances of approval for unemployment benefits will be very low.

By the way, if they fired her, it would be the best possible alternative as far as her chances of getting approved for unemployment benefits. So instead of going all totally crazy if they were to say, "Why don't you just quit?" she should smile and go on, and let them, if they are stupid enough to, fire her. Because even though she may thing that getting fired would be the most awful thing ever, and they may have been scaring her to death by saying, "We might fire you!" getting fired is not a bad thing. Particularly if they do not have a valid misconduct reason to fire you, that would make it much easier to draw unemployment benefits if the company fired her than if she resigns. Resigning at this point may be better for her from a stress and total mental happiness point of view, but it will not make it likely for her to get unemployment benefits.

 

[cbg]

And perhaps in civics class you read about something called the Constitution of the United States. It outlines what rights people have, and included among those rights is the right to speak their opinion.

I am in no way, shape or form defending the people who are being cruel to her. However, it does not appear that they have crossed the line into illegality. It would be nice if her tormentors were disciplined for it, and I'd have more respect for her employer if they did. However, since what it transpiring is not illegal harassment, they are not obligated to do so and she does not have legal recourse if they don't.

People unfortunately have the right to be jerks, and your friend's coworkers appear to have availed themselves of that right. The fact that she has a diagnosed medical condition may or may not require the employer to provide her with an accommodation to do her job, but it does not appear that this is the problem. Having a diagnosed medical condition does not mean that everyone has to treat her nicely or that they're required to like her. I suspect that her condition is causing some behavior on her part that is either annoying, frightening, or both - it's quite unlikely that this level of cruelty is based on nothing at all.

 

[aloha96778]

Perhaps there is a case in there somewhere, but when you say "for the last ten years her work environment has been unbearable because of the harassment from both coworkers and supervisors. Okay, I am not trying to be mean here, all right? But UNBEARABLE means you can't stand it, and she has stood it for ten years????? It sounds to me like maybe she is the one who is getting worse. And it sounds to me like there has not been any clear cut, defined incident during the most recent part of this ten years or so that things have been so awful that she has had something specific happen that has been way over the top as far as awful unbearable things that happened to her.

How long ago did the cutting the finger occur? Why did she not immediately report the injury to the supervisor? I believe that any on the job injury, even a cut finger should be reported at once. Just because someone came up, with no witnesses and said something that possibly to an OCD person would be scary or hurtful is not a case for a justified reason to quit the job. Especially when it happened here a while back and she didn't walk out right then.

Quote: "Since this is Minnesota you cannot collect Unemployment when you quit your job but one would think someone in this type of work environment would have some recourse. My thoughts are they are pretty much making it horrible for her so she does quit - she does her duties at work well and has a great attendance record she just feels she can no longer work in this environment. I actually do not blame her I would not want to either.

What rights does she have or any type of recourse. I think she should at-least be able to collect Unemployment compensation until she can find other employment.

She is 53 years old so finding other employment may not be real easy but she feels she has no other alternative but to get out the that environment and find something else."


First of all, read about unemployment and quits on the Minnesota unemployment system. Pretty much if you quit a job, you must be able to show that you had a valid serious reason to quit your job, and that you had exhausted all reasonable alternatives to quitting before you quit. It is NOT needs based, or they do not consider a person's age, or handicap or likelihood of obtaining another job in the approval or denial process.

If something bad happened to her on the job, and she continued to work, for three or four years, that pretty much did away with her chances of showing it was a valid serious reason to quit her job. She has, it sounds like,been working with a bunch of jerks, and they have been treating her kind of rough. She has spoken to them, and nothing has happened to improve the situation. she has hung in there for all these years. Nineteen to be exact. Is there a possibility, and I mean this in the kindest of ways, that she has gotten worse lately?

What I would advise her to do is speak again to her supervisors, and tell them, not just based on anything specific, but in general, that she is having problems with the work environment. She should mention past incidents, but remind them that she has continued to try to do the job to the best of her abilities, that she has accepted the bad treatment, but that it has worsened to the point that she cannot tolerate harassment based on her handicap any more. She should remind the HR people that she does have a documented handicap, and remind them that she needs some degree of care and concern from them to work successfully.

Then I would wait, and when another incident of harassment happens, then she should talk to HR, and then leave at that point. If she gives her notice in a few weeks, there will not be a very good chance AT ALL that she will be able to draw unemployment based on what has happened to her during the last 19 years. Because all during those years, she has continued to work and be paid, and accept the terms and conditions of employment. What would draw the line and make it more likely she would be found to have a valid work related reason to quit and be approved for unemployment benefits is if she has another incident of harassment or someone saying something mean to her.

Giving notice after 19 years of work, with no precipitating incident, is a voluntary quit. She can file for unemployment and she can tell them, "I was being mistreated for 10 years or more, and finally I just decided, based on everything they have done to me, that I couldn't stand it anymore, so I just gave my notice and quit." And they will say, you have a voluntary quit. You cannot draw unemployment because you have voluntarily quit the job. End of appeal, end of story. It may be better for her mental health, but she won't likely be approved for benefits if this is what she does.

We used to call it the "my boss slapped me last February" situation. If your boss slapped your face last February, that was surely a valid reason you should have quit your job at that time. If you did not quit, kept working, and now, next January, you quit your job because you've thought about it and decided that your boss slapping you last February was unacceptable, you do not have a good case to be approved for unemployment benefits. You accepted the terms of employment, which was your boss treating you awful, for a long time, and then one day walked out, and that does not make an unemployment approvable case.

But if something else happens, I'd counsel her to walk off right then. Do not sit on it and take it and take it. No notice is required, a person can leave a job without notice, and that's what she should do if someone does anything else to her that upsets her or is mean. BUt if she doesn't have a precipitating incident, her chances of approval for unemployment benefits will be very low.

The cutting of finger incident "the supervisor" was the one who made the AIDS comment. So obviously the supervisor knew about the cut.

Her supervisor was also the one who threatened her with the box cutter when she was reporting the harassment to him.

I will mention to her though the advice below .... and Thank you for the advice. I appreciate it.

"I'd counsel her to walk off right then. Do not sit on it and take it and take it. No notice is required, a person can leave a job without notice, and that's what she should do if someone does anything else to her that upsets her or is mean. BUt if she doesn't have a precipitating incident, her chances of approval for unemployment benefits will be very low."

 

[Shadowbunny]

Is she in therapy? Because in light of the excellent advice given above, it seems like getting help to cope with the situation is more feasible than quitting.

 

[commentator]

Yes, absolutely. A good job coach through vocational rehabilitation or Goodwill industries would be ideal for this person to work with. And there is also the possibility that through the years, there has been a worsening of her condition, or that she could benefit from a change in medications if she is taking them. This could make it more feasible for her to continue working somewhere, even if this long term situation does not work out.

It is good that she has reached out to you, her family. It is very wise of you to learn about her options before you jump up and try to help her. And it is a shame that she is about to give up a good steady income at a job she can do, simply because of the way she is treated in the workplace.

I am with cbg, there may be things that she is doing that make the situation worse, or it may simply be that they have fallen into the habit of behaving this way and thinking it is amusing or appropriate, but she has enjoyed a steady income and has been doing well enough to support herself for a long time here. And it is a terrible reality in our country and our society that we are not kind to people who have a perceived weakness, who quit their jobs (regardless of the reason) and who may find themselves unable to work and support themselves, regardless of the reason.