Am I in Contempt?

[MakesMeSick]

I've been there done that. And FJ1200guy is correct. She tricked you. If you do not give her her CO days with your son, she CAN file for contempt. My advise to you is to give her the 2 days and consider this a lesson. She took what she could get from you, but, it's sad to say, that even though you believed her, the law is on HER side. I'm sorry that you are losing the 2 days with your son. But, cheer up. You're smarter now!! She can't trick you anymore because you now know she cannot be trusted.

 

[ellencee]

I wonder why the majority of posters think Mom is sneaky, selfish, and untrustworthy. Is it because she changed her mind and refused to give up time with her child during Christmas? Is it because she sought legal advice and apparently acted on the legal advice? Is it over 2 days that she could give back, just not at Christmas?

Is there no one who thinks it was more than a little crass for the Dad to even consider asking Mom to do without seeing her child during Christmas? How many of you would give up Christmas visitation for a long weekend at Thanksgiving? (none?)

I'm hoping that Dad just wasn't thinking clearly. If he was thinking clearly, then he, not Mom, just may be the problem in this situation.

I just wonder why the majority of posters think Mom is in the wrong in this situation.

EC

 

[Lil Miss Smarty Panties]

She was asked before hand and agreed, took her two extra days that dad offered, then said she never agreed. How is that not sneaky, selfish and untrustworthy? She wanted Thanksgiving and Christmas? So now dad is out two major holidays because she wanted to play games. And now she wants to haul him to court right before the holidays and before any kind of contempt has taken place. How is that not selfish and underhanded?? Thats the way I feel about it anyways.

 

[Melanie_Jenkins]

I think mom was in the wrong because she accepted this deal dad made, whether or not it was an unfair request or not to the mother. If she thought it was such a bad proposal she should have told him "Hell no" right off the bat, rather than sneaking in two extra days at Thanksgiving only to take back her verbal agreement afterwards. Basically, she got her cake and now she is going to eat it too. That's why I think most people blame the mother. I wouldn't doubt it at all if she knew the whole time she would do this, only to get her two extra days at Thanksgiving too.

Like I said, it's not about the unfair proposal the father made. She accepted it, full well knowing what it meant.. THEN she got her cake and at Christmas she will eat it too because she was a trickster. Sorry, that doesn't make her smart in my opinion.. it makes her a B- - - -

 

[FJ1200guy]

Well, EC the Mom IS wrong to not honor her word. I don't get it, do you think it's okay to make a deal, then welch on it? AFTER half the deal is done?!?!?!?
That'd be like me coming to your house, offering to give you $100.00 for fancy home-made dinner, eating it, then saying, "Hmmmmm, nah, forget it, I don't want to do this deal." You'd be chasing me down the street with a rolling pin, EC! lol

Maybe it was, as you put it, "crass" for him to ask. Maybe he had a specific reason, who knows? And who cares? EC if your ex asked you for the same deal, what would YOU say? Probobly the same as me.. "What? Are you nuts?"

Or would you agree... take the extra days on Thanksgiving, then cry foul?

Also, if YOU asked for the deal.... then got burned like this, what would you think?

PLEASE answer these questions, I am VERY curious as to what you'd do in each case.

 

[stealth2]

Having been through something similar... it's very likely that the court will grant her request, but may entertain ordering her to pay your court costs.

The situation I had was that the ex and I reached an agreement through our attorneys to split Spring break - he got the first half, while I got the second. Fair enough, IMO. It was all in writing. After some time passed, he informed me that he intended to change that agreement by taking the kids several days earlier and returning them one day before the agreement stated he would. Since this involved their missing nearly a week of school, I refused. He took me to court over it. The judge granted him his petition, but because we had entered into a good faith agreement which he disregarded, ordered the ex to pay my legal fees for the appearance.

 

[ellencee]

Melanie Jenkins
Apparently Mom is guaranteed two days of visitation during Christmas and is in no way under any obligation to give them up. Mom gets Thanksgiving and Christmas visitation--ordered, not by Dad's good graces.
I have changed my mind over many things that initially seemed like something I wanted to do, but after a day or so of thinking it over, I decided it wasn't something I wanted to do. We all have done that and will continue to do that. Just because visitation is involved does not mean we can't change our minds.
I liked your response, though.

LMSP
This is like playing the old game of gossip! Where did you get the information that she denied ever having agreed to the change? The poster said the mother changed her mind and served him with papers for contempt. Where did you get the information that Dad is out two major holidays? Apparently it was Mom's turn to have Thanksgiving because he offered her two extra days. Dad gets all of Christmas holidays until the two days AFTER Christmas. So, Mom got Thanksgiving as it was ordered, plus two days that at sometime she may need to give back to Dad; Dad will Christmas as usual and Mom will get two days after Christmas.

FJ1200guy
Nah--if I contracted with you to prepare a $100 meal and you ate and ran, I'd sue you and use my signed contract with you as evidence! lol

I would have declined the offer to give up my only two days after Christmas unless the children were going to benefit from some unusual activity such as going to Germany for Christmas.

Everyone has the right to change his or her mind and not be a person of bad moral character. If that is not true, then any divorced person participating on this thread is a welcher and a b*tch or the equal. After all, divorce is breaking a promise; so is ending an engagement, cancelling a date, etc.

To answer each question:
Maybe he had a specific reason, who knows?
---God and possibly The Shadow.

EC if your ex asked you for the same deal, what would YOU say?
--You're not tricking me again. I learned from my mistake.

"What? Are you nuts?"
--Probably wouldn't say that, just think it.

Or would you agree... take the extra days on Thanksgiving, then cry foul?
--I'd tell him the children would be ready at the normal time and if came to get them fine and if waited two days, fine; but it would not be my decision. I much prefer Janis Joplin's 'Cry Baby' to cry foul.

Also, if YOU asked for the deal.... then got burned like this, what would you think?
--I would think he hadn't changed one, little bit.

Thanks ladies and gent; I just wondered about the tone against Mom!!

EC

 

[tigger22472]

Ellencee and I don't always agree on issues but I'm with her on this one all the way. Mom's not getting the actual holiday... Dad is. Mom is getting two days AFTERWARDS. Is she not entitled to have her child at HER home with HER family sometime close to the holiday in order for the child to open presents that she paid for? I personally think it was BS for dad to try to pull that with her. This is one of the 'casulties' of divorce especially when the parents can't get along for the sake of their children.

Last year my SD was to have Thanksgiving with mom and Christmas with us. We switched with her because our Christmas for lack of a better word sucked last year. This year she was to be here Thanksgiving and mom's Christmas. Mom asked us if we'd switch because her other child would be gone Christmas. We agreed. Then we had Thanksgiving on Sunday instead of Thursday and sd got to come here for that. We are going to visit MY family for Christmas on the 22nd. SD's mom is letting her go... THAT"S what happens when parents work together for the child!!

 

[Lil Miss Smarty Panties]

LMSP
This is like playing the old game of gossip! Where did you get the information that she denied ever having agreed to the change? The poster said the mother changed her mind and served him with papers for contempt. Where did you get the information that Dad is out two major holidays? Apparently it was Mom's turn to have Thanksgiving because he offered her two extra days. Dad gets all of Christmas holidays until the two days AFTER Christmas. So, Mom got Thanksgiving as it was ordered, plus two days that at sometime she may need to give back to Dad; Dad will Christmas as usual and Mom will get two days after Christmas.

"I am sole custodial parent of my son. I asked my ex-wife to change her 2 visitation days over Christmas and suggested that she take my son for 2 extra days at Thanksgiving instead. She took my son for thanksgiving, then told me she didn't agree and has served me papers saying I am in contempt. Am I in contempt?"

I still can't understand your reasoning and I don't see where I'm twisting what the guy said. He offered her two extra days at Thanksgiving so he could have Christmas. She took those extra days from Dad then said I don't want to play anymore. Just as FJ suggested, that would be like accepting services from someone then refusing to pay. She screwed the guy over and everyone else sees that but you.






Edit: We don't actually know the specifics of who had the actual HoliDAYS, that wasn't made clear.

 

[stealth2]

[BShe screwed the guy over and everyone else sees that but you. [/B]

Well, actually she screwed the guy over - according to the guy. We don't know her side of the story, and I suspect the truth of the matter is somewhere in between.

 

[Melanie_Jenkins]

We'll all have to agree to disagree I think.

Had the mom never agreed to this proposal I would be right there with you backing her up. But she did agree, took the kids those days then after decided to not go by what was agreed upon.

You change your mind BEFORE you start applying yourself to a verbal agreement (accepting Thanksgiving over Christmas) not after nibbling your cake and finding out it just tasted too good to give up any of it at Christmas.

This isn't like going to a department store, buying something to wear out some where.. then wearing it and after the fact you can take it back for a refund because you didn't like it.

Anyhoo, this is just my opinion, and you all have yours. Looks like all of this is moot anyway since the judge will probably rule in the mothers favor anyway.

 

[tigger22472]

[BShe screwed the guy over and everyone else sees that but you. [/B]

And me I suppose.

 

[Whyte Noise]

Where did you get the information that she denied ever having agreed to the change?

Probably right here:

I asked my ex-wife to change her 2 visitation days over Christmas and suggested that she take my son for 2 extra days at Thanksgiving instead. She took my son for thanksgiving, "THEN TOLD ME SHE DIDN'T AGREE" and has served me papers saying I am in contempt. Am I in contempt?

Also, we don't know the specifics of the Christmas visitation either. It could be MOM'S turn to have the child for Christmas as well as for 2 days afterwards, and dad wanted to have the son for those 2 days to be able to have Christmas with his son near the actual date. So, EC, to say that dad gets all of Christmas Holidays PLUS those 2 extra days is jumping the gun a bit. He never stated it was his holiday. All he stated was that mom took the child for 2 extra days at Thanksgiving in exchange for not having him the 2 days after Christmas.

Their order has no specific dates in it, they are to work it out between themselves. They apparantly did that, and then mom reniged on it.

The way I see it, there is no contempt. You can't be in contempt for something that you "may" do. If you could, the dockets would be full of "anticipated" contempt filings. You can't be found in contempt until AFTER the contempt occurs. You also can't be found in contempt when there is no SPECIFIC order of the court to be in contempt of. If the order said mom had X days at T'giving, and X days at Christmas and mom pulled this, then yes... dad would be in contempt if he didn't give her those 2 days after Christmas. However, since there are no specific dates, it is to be decided between the parties, and the contempt hasn't even occured yet, it wouldn't suprise me if this gets thrown out.

We know Thanksgiving was mom's time because the OP stated that. We do not however, know the dates for Christmas visitation or who has those days. For all we know, mom has the first half of Christmas break (up to 2 days after Christmas) and dad has it the last half. So, to be able to spend "Christmas" with his child, he wanted to offer 2 additional days for Thanksgiving and get the 2 days after Christmas.

 

[stealth2]

Another thing.... Mom had Thanksgiving regardless. Dad has Christmas regardless. In question are two *non*holiday days:

"Thanksgiving was her regular days plus she took him for 2 extra instead of the 2 days after Christmas "

 

[Whyte Noise]

And me I suppose.

You don't?

Mom agreed to swap the 2 days after Christmas for an additional 2 days at Thanksgiving.

She got her 2 additional days at Thanksgiving, then said she didn't agree to the swap.

Dad was out those 2 days at Thanksgiving that he gave mom, and now he's out the 2 days after Christmas that mom agreed to give to dad.

Mom got her "extra" 2 days, then said to hell with it and decided to not give dad the 2 days after Christmas. She got 2 extra days out of this without living up to her end of the agreement.