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Another person driving - DUI

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renegade83

Junior Member
In addition on the Alcotest 7110 MKIIIC

It shows the operating officer correctly, but the subject name is not mine, it shows the officer's name + my birthdate. Can we get the results thrown out?
 


S

seniorjudge

Guest
renegade83 said:
In addition on the Alcotest 7110 MKIIIC

It shows the operating officer correctly, but the subject name is not mine, it shows the officer's name + my birthdate. Can we get the results thrown out?

I have to tell you: the "phanthom driver" story is one of the oldest in the book. I didn't believe it the first time I heard it and the 500th time I heard it I never believed it either.
 

renegade83

Junior Member
I understand where your coming with that, but please look at the facts of the case. The state has to prove that I was driving. They have no witnesses, no keys and most importantly I have 3 different witnesses that have seen this so-called "phantom driver" and will testify as such.
 
S

seniorjudge

Guest
"... I have 3 different witnesses that have seen this so-called "phantom driver" and will testify as such...."


These people will have inconvenient (for you) lapses of memory as soon as they hit the witness stand.

If I am wrong about this (i.e., AFTER the trial) post back and I will apologize.
 

renegade83

Junior Member
I doubt that, the situation isn't all that complex. They were with me at the party, and they saw me get into the car with the driver, not ten minutes before this happened. And what about the keys, or that the state has not witnesses or the wrong name on my alcotest printout, or the time inconsistencies, or the no implied consent warning.....
 
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seniorjudge

Guest
"...I have a witness who saw me get into the my car and the other guy driving my car....

2. Subject injuries (The driver side window smashed upon collision. I had a few scratches on my arms and the police said that I must have gotten them because I was in the drivers seat. I can easily explain where I got them from)...."


Throughout your post, your story changes (one witness turns into three; you can explain away driver side injuries, etc.) Re-read your post and you will see lots of glaring errors, changes in story, etc.

You will not be a credible witness (if you take the stand...if you were my client, I would tell you to shut up and sit there and look innocent!)
 

renegade83

Junior Member
The two other witnesses that I have, were found by me doing a little research and making tons of phone calls. The injuries of course could have came from anywhere. I tried to open up the drivers door after the crash, because he was unable to find the handle. My arm my have raked against the glass. My vehicle was also lodged against a big bush, and I may have gotten the cuts from trying to get out of the bush, who knows.
 

topsites

Junior Member
renegade83 said:
I was placed as a party by the following items:

1. Subject is registered owner
2. Subject injuries (The driver side window smashed upon collision. I had a few scratches on my arms and the police said that I must have gotten them because I was in the drivers seat. I can easily explain where I got them from)

I have the following defenses:

1. The police were unable to find any witnesses to the collision. They were dispatched to the scene by an anonymous tipster who had heard a collision. They gave no descriptions of a vehicles/drivers.
2. I had no keys (The driver must have ran off with them without realizing it.) Without keys, there was no way I could have been in actual physical control of the vehicle.
3. I have 3 witnesses that saw me get into the passenger side of my car with the other person driving not ten minutes before the collission.

There were several inconsistencies in the police report about time. One officer stated that they were dispatched @ 1:37AM and the other officer, the arresting one, stated that they were dispatched @ 2:05AM. However the arresting officer also stated that he arrested me at 2:03AM which is before he said he was dispatched. My Alcotest 7110 MKIIIC start time was 2:38AM. I am not sure if this helps any, so please let me know if you have any suggestions.

I was never read my Implied Consent Warning, and the officer did not document anything on acceptance or refusal of the breath test. I was never given the option to retain a sample of my breath, blood, or urine. Will this have any effect at all?

Please comment if you have any suggestions/advice.

Witnesses are not needed. All the police needs is evidence, motive, and a confession (denial is considered confession). They have you, your car, and the scene of the accident. That is all they need, even if the three blind monkeys did not see what happened.

Times, directions and other typos and errors on the report/ticket (like if they put down the license plate number of their cruiser instead of your car by mistake) all have no real relevance in court.

Your injuries can not be explained away, you had them, most likely because of the crash... Far as keys, in the past I owned a car to which you did not need the key (cauz it was broken like that). And, you could have tossed the keys or thrown them far, far away before the police arrived... By the way, this defense might even backfire on you as they may charge you with obstruction of justice.

They do not need to document breath acceptance/refusal informations, they only need to verbally inform you. IF, in your state things are different, then only an attorney can fight such technicality.

Your only defense which most likely will work, and you need to listen this time because this has been mentioned 2-3 times:
- Find the actual driver of the car, and get (or subpoena) him to court.
Even then, this person could lie and say they did not drive (assuming he did).
Because your friends could be lying, saying he did.

There is one more thing... In some cases, certain states, some countries, on some odd days and sometimes on tuesdays but really anyday, anytime:
The owner of the car is, and can be held ultimately responsible for anything that is done with their car, or that happens with it, yes, even if the owner is or was not driving!
So for example, if a car is used during a bank robbery, and none of the robbers own the car, then the owner of the car could be charged with accessory. The owner *probably* would not be charged if it is obvious the car was stolen (i.e.: ignition hotwired), but just because the owner can not produce the keys is not enough of a defense.
A less drastic example would be in the case of someone who forgot to set their parking brake and the car rolled off, causing a collision. I would guess this is negligence, but whatever, nobody is driving yet the owner will most likely be held responsible.
And in your case, you could be held fully responsible for just this reason, whether the parking brake was set or not, whether you have the keys or not, even if the officer wrote 5am when it was really 8pm, and even if you were not driving... Because YOU are the owner. Being intoxicated at the time doesn't help, to be sure.

Just so you know (this is assuming you're telling the truth,
and please don't make me go further in this direction):
In my years of drinking (I quit 5 years ago), I found out one thing: When you are drunk, you give up all your rights and you hand your life and your future to complete strangers to do with as they wish, and as they please. I have been in more situations like yours than I care to remember, and I know just like you there were several times when I was right and they were wrong, but because I was drunk, they took advantage of me and there was nothing I could do. What they did was wrong, but I was drunk, and when you are drunk, you will get what's coming more often than not, even when you do not deserve it.
This is what happens to you when you get drunk / are drunk.

My advice: Stop drinking and don't go to parties no more.

Good luck.
 
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seniorjudge

Guest
OP, call all your witnesses today and tell them you have an appointment for them to show up at your lawyer's office to make notarized statements under oath (to be used in court) that they saw the phanthom driver (and not you) driving the car.

Then post their responses.

Thanks....
 
CDWJava Pegged This One

CDWJava has given you the best advice.

I would say you have a problem, though. This driver went "wide on a turn and crashed in to a wall"?? Are you sure this driver was sober? If I was a prosecutor, I'd certainly ask that question. Also, the driver left the scene of an accident which I believe is a felony (CDW correct me if I'm wrong). Usually, if someone goes as far as to so that, there's drugs or alchohol involved.
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
Alchohol_Free said:
CDWJava has given you the best advice.

I would say you have a problem, though. This driver went "wide on a turn and crashed in to a wall"?? Are you sure this driver was sober? If I was a prosecutor, I'd certainly ask that question. Also, the driver left the scene of an accident which I believe is a felony (CDW correct me if I'm wrong). Usually, if someone goes as far as to so that, there's drugs or alchohol involved.
If the passenger was injured, then yes, it's felony hit-and-run per CVC 20003.

And you are right, a DA may well ask about the owner/passenger's impression of the driver's sobriety BEFORE, during and after the collision.

- Carl
 

renegade83

Junior Member
My pre-trial is coming up in the next week, and I will talk to my lawyer about the notarized statements. To my best memory, I do not remember if the driver was completely sober. I know that sounds very ignorant and stupid, but when I let him drive, all that mattered to me was that I was not driving. So the driver is facing felony hit and run? I only had a few scratches, does that count as an injury? And seniorjudge, do you want me to copy down my witnesses notarized statements?
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
renegade83 said:
My pre-trial is coming up in the next week, and I will talk to my lawyer about the notarized statements. To my best memory, I do not remember if the driver was completely sober. I know that sounds very ignorant and stupid, but when I let him drive, all that mattered to me was that I was not driving. So the driver is facing felony hit and run? I only had a few scratches, does that count as an injury?
Yes. Unless you were the driver, it counts as felony hit-and-run.

And you still have the daunting task of showing that you were NOT driving.

- Carl
 

renegade83

Junior Member
Ok CDWJava, here are my defenses:

1. The police were unable to find any witnesses to the collision. They were dispatched to the scene by an anonymous tipster who had heard a collision. They gave no descriptions of a vehicles/drivers.

2. I had no keys (The driver must have ran off with them without realizing it.) Without keys, there was no way I could have been in actual physical control of the vehicle.

3. I have 3 witnesses that saw me get into the passenger side of my car with the other person driving not ten minutes before the collission and will testify as such.

4. On the Alcotest print out, the subject name is wrong, however the birthdate is correct. This is the most damning evidence of all, and I find it hard to believe that these results, which are so important, can be accepted as evidence when the accused name is not even on it. Basically they would be identifying me by my birthday and that I am a male.

5. The police, when presented with the possibility of another driver who fled on foot, failed to look for the driver even though they had a good chance of finding him.

6. Time inconsistencies. There were several of the police report.
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
renegade83 said:
Ok CDWJava, here are my defenses:

1. The police were unable to find any witnesses to the collision. They were dispatched to the scene by an anonymous tipster who had heard a collision. They gave no descriptions of a vehicles/drivers.
Driving can be established by circumstance ... you are the registered owner and you wer ein the car. Without evidence of another driver, the "I don't know who he was," tale will sound awfully fishy to a judge and jury.

2. I had no keys (The driver must have ran off with them without realizing it.) Without keys, there was no way I could have been in actual physical control of the vehicle.
I cannot TELL you the number of times I have had DUI drivers dump keys on me. JUst three weeks ago I had two guys run from a car I stopped and they dumped the keys.


3. I have 3 witnesses that saw me get into the passenger side of my car with the other person driving not ten minutes before the collission and will testify as such.
If they will testify on the stand to that fact it MIGHT provide reasonable doubt. Even better if they can give up the ID of the guy. But three friends of your stating they saw a mystery man driving MAY be able to picked apart by a determined prosecutor.


4. On the Alcotest print out, the subject name is wrong, however the birthdate is correct.
Irrelevant. Unless you argue that it was NOT your breath test (and they can almost certainly prove it was), then it's irrelevant how your name was spelled.


This is the most damning evidence of all, and I find it hard to believe that these results, which are so important, can be accepted as evidence when the accused name is not even on it. Basically they would be identifying me by my birthday and that I am a male.
And the officer will testify that it was YOU he had blow in the machine and that your name was misspelled. It's not damning at all. And it is easily overcome.


5. The police, when presented with the possibility of another driver who fled on foot, failed to look for the driver even though they had a good chance of finding him.
Did they have a description? A name? Where he ran to?

And how do you know they did not have someone look for him? They DO have radios. They aren't likely going to look at you, say, "You're right! Wait here!" and dash off to search for the other guy. They would put it out over the radio IF there was anyone to look for him.

In my neck of the woods, your crash would probably have tied almost everyone up. And if there was no name and description, it would be awfully hard to accuse someone if they did find a guy walking a couple blocks away.


6. Time inconsistencies. There were several of the police report.
Not relevant as times are approximate and come from different sources - wristwatches, CAD printouts, misprints, etc.

What does your attorney say about any of these defenses?

- Carl
 
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