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MindyT

Guest
What is the name of your state? Florida I know it has been awhile since we've been on but things were quiet for awhile. Now they're getting loud again. If you remember, my husband's ex was planning to move out of the state with his daughter and not tell him. Well, before he could go file a motion to PREVENT her from leaving, she did just that, so instead he filed a motion for contempt/enforcement. It was attempted to be delivered to her last known address, which the ex's mother still resided in, and she told the server that her daughter had moved out of state, and she didn't know where she was. THAT was untrue, anyway. SO, all this took place in the end of June. Then 3 days ago, the ex calls here (as always, does so when she KNOWS Amos will be at work and I will be here). She has been gone for 2 months, my husband having no address for her at all, and she calls now saying that she wants the back support from when she snuck away with his child. He refuses this, because SHE left, knowingly in the wrong. They have no support order in effect at all, but he has been paying her since 1/01 cash with signed receipts. He will not agree to back support for July and August because it was her choice to break the court order and leave to deny him contact with his daughter. Now she says that since it does not specify that she CANNOT leave the state, she says she has everyright to do what she wants and him have no say-so whatsoever. Their court order says that he has shared parental responsibilty and visitation rights, and that he must be included in any and all major decisions involving the child, which this is one. She syas she has 100% rights to do as she pleases and that HE will fry in court for not sending her back support (THERE IS NO ORDER IN EFFECT). He just now was told her address and phone number. OK, here goes.....what can he legally do? Enforce the motion he filed and go to court? He's stuck in a rut and doesn't know his legal rights OR hers. Any advice?? Thanks in advance.
 


kat1963

Senior Member
He needs to file for a modification in custody (AND a support order from HER) immediately due her leaving the state without notification, parental interferance a bunch of other things. Take the time this evening to research *case law* concerning this, then file ASAP...YES, in the same Florida court. IF you have any doubts about your case, then please make a free/low cost consult with a local family attorney. He/she will be able to answer any questions you have. You might be able to file an emergency ex parte (without the other party) motion for custody but I"m not so sure about that.
KAT
 
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MindyT

Guest
Wow, quick reply!!

Thank you, Kat for your quick response. Without a doubt, my husband HAS a case in this, a strong one, and SHE has a lot of nerve calling here as if nothing has happened. You gave good advice and I will definitley show him your post. He is thinking he will automatically be awarded at least temp. custody, but like you, I am not too sure on that one. I don't think they'd uproot a child simply because the parent left the state with them, even though the mother WILL have some sort of consequences. He just wants justice and for his rights to be recognized and respected, that's all. Thanks so much for being so fast!!
 

kat1963

Senior Member
Hey Mindy, I'll keep you guys in my thoughts. Times are a changing, slowl.. BUT, I know more then one CP who has lost custody due to similar actions. I agree she has alot of nerve. I give you husband credit from not busting a gut laughing at her when she called for money. I hope they nail her to the wall! What she did was just plain wrong.

Keep us informed!

KAT
 
M

MindyT

Guest
Hello again, and actually, he was ticked at her nerve!! He just wonders if he'll get in trouble for not paying her "arrears" for those 2 months (I put that in quotes because since there is no actual case, there are no actual "arrears"). He just cannot bring himself to feel guilty or resonsible for the support for then when she left like she did INTENTIONALLY sneaking away, and I 200% agree with that. Thanks for your help, and even if it's a bit late, we'll let you know what happens. Any more advice he can use would still be great.
 
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tdbird

Guest
Since there is no court order for him to pay child support and he has been doing this on his own then I don't feel that he has missed any payments. He should go to a lawyer and get this all streighten out. If the decree states she must tell if she leaves the state to live and didn't go before the judge for permission she if in fact in contempt.
 

kat1963

Senior Member
Tbird is right, tell her to pound sand. All you would doing anyway if financing her attorney. Make sure when he files, he files for child support too....GARNISHED child support & possibly supervised visitation since she probably could be considered a flight risk at this point in the game. I really, really hope she doesn't get away with this.
KAT
 
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MindyT

Guest
More good advice.....

Thanks to you both, and what tdbird said was what we thought was true all along, about there being no order, but you CAN NOT tell her that because she is convinced that no matter what, he owes support and because it was ordered years ago, when the case first opened, that the order is still in effect, failing to remember that SHE requested the support order to be dropped at the last court date. The DOR here in Tallahassee told her 2 things, first, she could not go back through them to collect support because she voluntarily dropped the order, and second, that IF she managed to get another case going somewhere, it would begin as a new case, starting the day it is approved in court, NOT from however long it had been since support was last received. She is in denial of this big time, and is getting her wee little hopes up too soon. Also, another question relating to this matter; my husband has been told that since the ORIGINAL case and support order was done here, that if she were to file for a case or support in Texas, where she lives now, it would be referred back to the originating state. Is that true? If so, she can't get support anyway, because of the dispostion of the case here in Florida. Anyone know about that?
 

kat1963

Senior Member
Mindy, support would stay in FL as long as your husband is there. This is according to FEDERAL Law. Custody however, if she is there for 6 months for residency requirements, could be transferred to TX. BUT she has to file for change in jurisdiction w/Florida...and if there is a case pending (because he is going to file NOW) that simply isn't going to happen. In my opinion, Florida is one state that just doesn't give up its jurisdiction so easily anyway. She will be forced to face the Florida court. I have a question for you. In VA, we have revolving judges, you don’t get to see the same one each time…whoever in on the docket when you file, that is who you see. In Florida, are you going back to the same judge? Gosh, I surely hope so!!
KAT
 

kat1963

Senior Member
I was also thinking...do a search for PKPA (Federal) Parental Kidnapping Provention Act, see how it applies to Florida, if at all...and if there is any case law on it.
KAT
 
M

MindyT

Guest
Yes, usually, it is the same judge, if not, only one other one. In 90% of their court appearances, they have seen the same judge. And what you said about support staying here, that's what he thought. He's staying right here, doesn't plan to move, and he DOES plan to file that mation very soon. Actually, it was already filed but they closed/disposed it since they could not find her to serve it to her. Would he be able to reopen it?? You sure have been a lot of help today, thanks!!
 
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tdbird

Guest
MindyT, Watch out , if she is carrying the first decree that states that your husband is ordered to pay support and the amount is stated, if she only showes this to a lawyer they will not no she has signed a waiver for support and will go after your husband. Make copies of the order that states she has waived her right to support. Make lots of copies.
 

Grace_Adler

Senior Member
I agree with kat and tdbird. She could lose custody for this stunt. I was looking through WA state and a parent can get in deep doo doo if they try to hide the child from another parent or relative. This may be true in FL as well. Try going through a search engine and pulling up FL child custody statutes and other key words like that to try and look this up. Also try looking up case laws like kat suggested. Good Luck!
 

jyoung

Member
Mindy- maybe this will save you some time, I recently went through this problem in Florida...my best advice is to get a lawyer if you can possibly afford one, perhaps because of his ex's actions the court might make her pay your legal bills, or some of it.

here's the main link to research: http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes...e&Search_String=&URL=Ch0061/SEC13.HTM&Title=->2002->Ch0061->Section%2013

In particular:

(2)(a) The court shall have jurisdiction to determine custody, notwithstanding that the child is not physically present in this state at the time of filing any proceeding under this chapter, if it appears to the court that the child was removed from this state for the primary purpose of removing the child from the jurisdiction of the court in an attempt to avoid a determination or modification of custody.

(b)1. The court shall determine all matters relating to custody of each minor child of the parties in accordance with the best interests of the child and in accordance with the Uniform Child Custody Jurisdiction and Enforcement Act. It is the public policy of this state to assure that each minor child has frequent and continuing contact with both parents after the parents separate or the marriage of the parties is dissolved and to encourage parents to share the rights and responsibilities, and joys, of childrearing. After considering all relevant facts, the father of the child shall be given the same consideration as the mother in determining the primary residence of a child irrespective of the age or sex of the child.

2. The court shall order that the parental responsibility for a minor child be shared by both parents unless the court finds that shared parental responsibility would be detrimental to the child. Evidence that a parent has been convicted of a felony of the third degree or higher involving domestic violence, as defined in s. 741.28 and chapter 775, or meets the criteria of s. 39.806(1)(d), creates a rebuttable presumption of detriment to the child. If the presumption is not rebutted, shared parental responsibility, including visitation, residence of the child, and decisions made regarding the child, may not be granted to the convicted parent. However, the convicted parent is not relieved of any obligation to provide financial support. If the court determines that shared parental responsibility would be detrimental to the child, it may order sole parental responsibility and make such arrangements for visitation as will best protect the child or abused spouse from further harm. Whether or not there is a conviction of any offense of domestic violence or child abuse or the existence of an injunction for protection against domestic violence, the court shall consider evidence of domestic violence or child abuse as evidence of detriment to the child.

a. In ordering shared parental responsibility, the court may consider the expressed desires of the parents and may grant to one party the ultimate responsibility over specific aspects of the child's welfare or may divide those responsibilities between the parties based on the best interests of the child. Areas of responsibility may include primary residence, education, medical and dental care, and any other responsibilities that the court finds unique to a particular family.

b. The court shall order "sole parental responsibility, with or without visitation rights, to the other parent when it is in the best interests of" the minor child.

c. The court may award the grandparents visitation rights with a minor child if it is in the child's best interest. Grandparents have legal standing to seek judicial enforcement of such an award. This section does not require that grandparents be made parties or given notice of dissolution pleadings or proceedings, nor do grandparents have legal standing as "contestants" as defined in 1s. 61.1306. A court may not order that a child be kept within the state or jurisdiction of the court solely for the purpose of permitting visitation by the grandparents.

3. Access to records and information pertaining to a minor child, including, but not limited to, medical, dental, and school records, may not be denied to a parent because the parent is not the child's primary residential parent. Full rights under this subparagraph apply to either parent unless a court order specifically revokes these rights, including any restrictions on these rights as provided in a domestic violence injunction. A parent having rights under this subparagraph has the same rights upon request as to form, substance, and manner of access as are available to the other parent of a child, including, without limitation, the right to in-person communication with medical, dental, and education providers.

(c) The circuit court in the county in which either parent and the child reside or the circuit court in which the original award of custody was entered have jurisdiction to modify an award of child custody. The court may change the venue in accordance with s. 47.122.

(d) No presumption shall arise in favor of or against a request to relocate when a primary residential parent seeks to move the child and the move will materially affect the current schedule of contact and access with the secondary residential parent. In making a determination as to whether the primary residential parent may relocate with a child, the court must consider the following factors:

1. Whether the move would be likely to improve the general quality of life for both the residential parent and the child.

2. The extent to which visitation rights have been allowed and exercised.

3. Whether the primary residential parent, once out of the jurisdiction, will be likely to comply with any substitute visitation arrangements.

4. Whether the substitute visitation will be adequate to foster a continuing meaningful relationship between the child and the secondary residential parent.

5. Whether the cost of transportation is financially affordable by one or both parties.

6. Whether the move is in the best interests of the child.

(3) For purposes of shared parental responsibility and primary residence, the best interests of the child shall include an evaluation of all factors affecting the welfare and interests of the child, including, but not limited to:

(a) The parent who is more likely to allow the child frequent and continuing contact with the nonresidential parent.

(b) The love, affection, and other emotional ties existing between the parents and the child.

(c) The capacity and disposition of the parents to provide the child with food, clothing, medical care or other remedial care recognized and permitted under the laws of this state in lieu of medical care, and other material needs.

(d) The length of time the child has lived in a stable, satisfactory environment and the desirability of maintaining continuity.

(e) The permanence, as a family unit, of the existing or proposed custodial home.

(f) The moral fitness of the parents.

(g) The mental and physical health of the parents.

(h) The home, school, and community record of the child.

(i) The reasonable preference of the child, if the court deems the child to be of sufficient intelligence, understanding, and experience to express a preference.

(j) The willingness and ability of each parent to facilitate and encourage a close and continuing parent-child relationship between the child and the other parent.

(k) Evidence that any party has knowingly provided false information to the court regarding a domestic violence proceeding pursuant to s. 741.30.

(l) Evidence of domestic violence or child abuse.

(m) Any other fact considered by the court to be relevant.

(4)(a) When a noncustodial parent who is ordered to pay child support or alimony and who is awarded visitation rights fails to pay child support or alimony, the custodial parent shall not refuse to honor the noncustodial parent's visitation rights.

(b) When a custodial parent refuses to honor a noncustodial parent's visitation rights, the noncustodial parent shall not fail to pay any ordered child support or alimony.

(c) When a custodial parent refuses to honor a noncustodial parent's or grandparent's visitation rights without proper cause, the court shall, after calculating the amount of visitation improperly denied, award the noncustodial parent or grandparent a sufficient amount of extra visitation to compensate the noncustodial parent or grandparent, which visitation shall be ordered as expeditiously as possible in a manner consistent with the best interests of the child and scheduled in a manner that is convenient for the person deprived of visitation. In ordering any makeup visitation, the court shall schedule such visitation in a manner that is consistent with the best interests of the child or children and that is convenient for the noncustodial parent or grandparent. In addition, the court:

1. May order the custodial parent to pay reasonable court costs and attorney's fees incurred by the noncustodial parent or grandparent to enforce their visitation rights or make up improperly denied visitation;


I'd be a little wary of the withholding of child support though, if he continued to pay, as unpalatable as it seems, may help his case in the long run. Most of my research has shown me that the child is the one entitled to the support, not the custodial parent,
and appeals courts have found that parents do not have the right to "sign away" child support arrangements, again, check with an experienced Florida atty. Good luck to you.
 
M

MindyT

Guest
Thanks, that was interesting information. My husband doesn't want to witthold the support, but another one of his concerns is her stating she never recieved it, since she is no longer here to sign the receipt for it. He would have no problem mailing it to her, except for that. Also to keep his own tail dry and prevent her from getting state aid in leiu of support and then him getting stuck paying it back. He just wants things to be amicable between them like they were before she left. Her mother talked her into moving, that was why she did it, and now she decides she hates my husband, he has no rights in this, he WILL suffer in court, blah blah. At her age, this is getting juvenile. I will research like you said and hopefully come up with something he can use against her. She's given him quite a few things on her own already. Any other insight, especially if anyone has dealt with his before, would be welcomed.
 

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