Attorney General's Office Just Called

[its_kathie]

Let's not quibble -

We both know DVROs have to meet specified standards and are usually more volatile. Criminal ROs can all serve in a DV matter.
Most all ROs are civil and carries misdemeanor penalties.

Once a women get to this stage, lets try to keep her here. For her health, the health of the children, and the health and resources of the community. We know the cycle - this is a big step in breaking the cycle.

Now, it seems clear, I have made my case and would gladly ask for your vote as I run for president!!!

 

[CdwJava]

Let's not quibble -

We both know DVROs have to meet specified standards and are usually more volatile.

Yes, they tend to have the potential for volatility. But they are also used very often as a tool to manipulate one side or the other. Many courts issue these as a matter of course without even a serious review or inquiry into the affidavit of probable cause. While I would hope that most are not so issued, enough of them are issued under false pretenses to give me pause at anything to further erode rights solely because this order has been issued.

If a criminal conviction has been had, then I am all for removing whatever rights are prescribed by law and allowing a search and a public flogging if need be. But, until then, I cannot see the need to subvert the 4th Amendment by allowing arrests without probable cause, or searches without a warrant or consent.

Criminal ROs can all serve in a DV matter.

An order issued as a result of the court's initiation (usually as a result of a criminal conviction or at least a filing) is a Criminal Protective Order. A RO is one that is initiated by a plaintiff - a party to the order, not the court and not law enforcement.

Most all ROs are civil and carries misdemeanor penalties.

I'd have to say that ALL ROs are civil with misdemeanor penalties. A PO, on the other hand, is the result of a conviction or at least a court proceeding - except in the case of a 5-day Emergency Protective Order.

Once a women get to this stage, lets try to keep her here. For her health, the health of the children, and the health and resources of the community. We know the cycle - this is a big step in breaking the cycle.

Certainly. But, focusing on the firearm issue seems to be getting lost in the forest for the trees. In my county DV involving a firearm is almost non-existent ... and we have not had a DV related homicide in living memory. DV TROs resulting in the seizure or disposal of firearms is frequent (since there are many times more firearms here than there are people).

Now, it seems clear, I have made my case and would gladly ask for your vote as I run for president!!!

Well ... I'm still waiting for a Republican to emerge from the field. If only we could resurrect Reagan!


- Carl

 

[its_kathie]

CARL: Yes, they tend to have the potential for volatility. But they are also used very often as a tool to manipulate one side or the other. Many courts issue these as a matter of course without even a serious review or inquiry into the affidavit of probable cause. While I would hope that most are not so issued, enough of them are issued under false pretenses
KATHIE: Statistic show DVROs and TROs are up 77% in the past 10 years. However, of these requests, only 25% are granted. They are not given casually. Therefore, the ones that are MUST be taken seriously.

Careful Officer - you side is showing...
I already know mine is!

Isn't a Criminal Protective Order the same as a Criminal Restraining order. Different PCs, but same understanding - Stay way?

CARL: focusing on the firearm issue seems to be getting lost in the forest for the trees. In my county DV involving a firearm is almost non-existent.
KATHIE: I can only ride on horse at time. If I embraced all issues, I'd go mad.

Carl: We have not had a DV related homicide in living memory.
KATHIE: Nice county, but not the norm. Just because one is able to feed themselves doesn't mean others are not going hungry.

How's your evening going? I'm going to be outlining some of these highlights in my research. Tired of shuffling through papers.

Oh about the president, what does it matter, really...they are all in the same bed.

 

[CdwJava]

KATHIE: Statistic show DVROs and TROs are up 77% in the past 10 years. However, of these requests, only 25% are granted. They are not given casually. Therefore, the ones that are MUST be taken seriously.

The initial, TEMPORARY order is given without a contested hearing. Perhaps only 25% are granted at the contested hearing - or only that many make it to the hearing, but I strongly suspect that the initial TRO requests being granted is much, much higher. I rarely hear of one being rejected on the initial application.

Careful Officer - you side is showing...
I already know mine is!

"Side"?

Isn't a Criminal Protective Order the same as a Criminal Restraining order. Different PCs, but same understanding - Stay way?

A CPO is initiated by the court (sometimes at the request of the DA) but always as a result of a criminal complaint or conviction. A TRO of all kinds is initiated by a plaintiff and is not necessarily tied to a criminal complaint. There can be a complaint pending, or even at trial, but this is not required.

The end result is the same, however. Both are covered under PC 166(a) and PC 273.6 (for DV related orders).

KATHIE: I can only ride on horse at time. If I embraced all issues, I'd go mad.

Welcome to the legal world where we are expected to embrace all the issues at the same time ... and after lengthy discussion and months/years of legal debate and scrutiny, judges and others can second guess the decisions of the poor beat cop who made decisions within seconds, or, at best, minutes.

KATHIE: Nice county, but not the norm. Just because one is able to feed themselves doesn't mean others are not going hungry.

When I was in San Diego County I seem to recall we had 8 times as many gang-related homicides than DV related ones ... though the official line was to discount the gang-related homicides as we didn't want to fan the flames of violence.

I agree, DV IS a problem, but it is not the greatest problem facing law enforcement or the community. We tend to be much more worried about gang violence with firearms than DV. Though we have fewer tools at our disposal to deal with the gang issues ... few people get ROs against gang members.

My county is generally weak on DV we are one of only two counties in the state without a serious DV program. That is changing very soon thanks to the efforts of a few of us. However, our DA is not quite on board with DV prosecutions yet, and the sad reality is that until we get some tragic end such as has happened elsewhere, it is doubtful we will see meaningful change.

How's your evening going? I'm going to be outlining some of these highlights in my research. Tired of shuffling through papers.

Loading a dumpster, getting ready for an early training day tomorrow, and running all over the north state next week and the week after doing background investigations on new applicants. Loads of fun.

- Carl

Oh about the president, what does it matter, really...they are all in the same bed.[/QUOTE]

 

[its_kathie]

CARL: I agree, DV IS a problem, but it is not the greatest problem facing law enforcement or the community. We tend to be much more worried about gang violence with firearms than DV. Though we have fewer tools at our disposal to deal with the gang issues ... few people get Ros against gang members.
KATHIE: The foundation begins with the family. Gangs are young men and women. How were they raised? Was there violence? Was the mother home? Did they play board games or were they beaten with the board? Drugs, alcohol? If DV is so pervasive and we are just beginning to understand the dynamics (1970s)...then maybe the volatile home environment has a relationship to gang activity. I don't think we can discount DV as an isolated event. I "feel" the family structure is the foundation that creates and introduces children to the world. What perspective do "we", the whole community, want to show the children? Are families happy or are gangs romanticized?

CARL: Welcome to the legal world where we are expected to embrace all the issues at the same time ... and after lengthy discussion and months/years of legal debate and scrutiny, judges and others can second guess the decisions of the poor beat cop who made decisions within seconds, or, at best, minutes.
KATHIE: I agree, law enforcement is on the front-lines. That is why knowledge and training and compassion is vital, along with understanding. I have encountered far too much Testosterone in my dealings with law enforcement that I have now termed it the "Sperm and the Egg Syndrome".

One thing law enforcement has going for it is the opportunity to save lives, have the power, and the control for the moment. Your statement alone makes it vital all officers are well informed because their actions are constantly scrutinized. Let us not forget, however, that this is a position each officer signed up for. It fills a passion. I am glad we have those in society with such a passion, but there is a degree of egotism in the profession, and there is a lot of power in carrying a gun and a badge. We need a strong, courageous, forceful front to battle societies battles (the bad and the ugly), and because those in law enforcement face that front everyday, much respect is automatically given.

On the other hand, should law enforcement fail in their duty to be strong and protect in the moment, then in a DV situation, the woman is left unprotected. Therefore, she goes to the court. It is here she must be informed. Informed at a time her life is continuing to fall apart. Let's help her, not hinder her. With this help, her life could change, and the life of her children. Then maybe there will less gangs, better educated children, and a better society.

You liked my president quote huh?

 

[CdwJava]

If DV is so pervasive and we are just beginning to understand the dynamics (1970s)...then maybe the volatile home environment has a relationship to gang activity.

There are far too many factors that play into this equation to address them all here. DV is but one, but almost certainly not the most important one.

Are families happy or are gangs romanticized?

Gangs are romanticized. In my community I can count the real gangsters on one hand ... most of them are a bunch of wannabe wannabes living in a fantasy world and they know diddly about what it means to be in a gang. They listen to rap music, watch TV, and they think they know what it's all about, not knowing that if they were to throw down in the big city, their own supposed homies would cut them down in an instant for dissin' them.

KATHIE: I agree, law enforcement is on the front-lines. That is why knowledge and training and compassion is vital, along with understanding. I have encountered far too much Testosterone in my dealings with law enforcement that I have now termed it the "Sperm and the Egg Syndrome".

In my opinion, the greater problem is the, "Oh not again ..." syndrome. When you go to a score of DV related calls each month, and they result only in paperwork, no prosecution, and a return visit, it's easy to get tired. Each call - whether prosecuted or not, and even if no arrest is made - can result in one to two hours of paperwork. When the activity is seen as an exercise in futility it is easy to get cynical. These are also the most dangerous calls for us to go on. When we try to arrest the suspect, very often the victim gets all bent saying they didn't want him to go to jail they just wanted us to TALK to him!

Ugh!

Then, within 48 hours, the victim is calling the DA's office recanting or lying to protect the abuser. It is amazing how many victims will risk prosecution for making a false report, or will commit perjury to protect the very slime that attacks them.

Yes, I understand the reasons why this happens (I have a background in psychology), but it doesn't make it any less frustrating.

I am glad we have those in society with such a passion, but there is a degree of egotism in the profession, and there is a lot of power in carrying a gun and a badge. We need a strong, courageous, forceful front to battle societies battles (the bad and the ugly), and because those in law enforcement face that front everyday, much respect is automatically given.

Maybe so. But, that courage and commitment must still adhere to the law. And even cops who are eager and determined to do their job can get cynical over certain types of events which result in much spinning of wheels without going anywhere.

You liked my president quote huh?

I'm too scared ... too many whacko libs running for office right now. Even the alleged conservative field is filled with middle-of-the-road candidates.

My eyes are still on the horizon.

- Carl

 

[its_kathie]

Hey it was great having a serious and educated meeting of the minds.

I have a paper to write and best get on it (two days past due).

I came from a law enforcement background - you can kinda say I'm still in it. I have the utmost respect for those in the field. However, because I was raised in it, I have also seen bias and cynicism. As you can most likely tell, I am not one to beat around the bush, so (most likely to being raised a daughter of a cop) I am not intimidated or passive to one's authority. I know the law, my rights, and the game. When I see a crock-of-crap...I know the steps to achieve to be heard. However, my walk is with respect and skill and communication. No since arguing when a mind is closed. I just move to the next level.

This firearm issue is a new battle and bigger from what I ever imagined it would be. Like I told the DV Task Force, I'm not going away. So let's fix it.

Frankly, my dad is very proud of his daughter!

Have a great week Carl - happy investigating...

 

[speedallurement]

if ur making such a big deal about this why didnt you charge him with domestic violence?
If u keep harrassing him he might put a restraining order on you and take away all ur guns. How will you like that ? The restraining order system is wack in california, the police would have helped you out more in my opinion if ur charged him with domesttic violence then put a criminal restraining order on him. Either way when the restraining order expires he will be able to take all his guns back.

By the way the gun is at his moms house that means that is is not in control or has pocession of the gun. Its in his moms pocession/control.

i keep on thinking this is some form of bitter wife payback your playing on him, maybe if u explain all the police reports and charges on him things will be different, other then that, move away leave him alone, your obviosly trying to get him to move away (to jail) and police pick up on unjust motives,

 

[Just Blue]

if ur making such a big deal about this why didnt you charge him with domestic violence?
If u keep harrassing him he might put a restraining order on you and take away all ur guns. How will you like that ? The restraining order system is wack in california, the police would have helped you out more in my opinion if ur charged him with domesttic violence then put a criminal restraining order on him. Either way when the restraining order expires he will be able to take all his guns back.

By the way the gun is at his moms house that means that is is not in control or has pocession of the gun. Its in his moms pocession/control.

i keep on thinking this is some form of bitter wife payback your playing on him, maybe if u explain all the police reports and charges on him things will be different, other then that, move away leave him alone, your obviosly trying to get him to move away (to jail) and police pick up on unjust motives,

Are you drunk?? On drugs?? Have difficulty reading and comprehending?? Or are you just a nut who likes to type ridiculous and nonsensical posts???

 

[its_kathie]

Thank You Baystategirl

I can't understand why many posting on this blog are incentive to the fact that it titled "Domestic Violence". I have noticed, far too often, many posts berate, abuse, and name call. This is NOT something one would do when face to face. It is a pity many feel compelled to behave this way here. A place where individuals are upset and afraid, and only to be met with hatred and anger when one did not say the right thing the right way.

My goodness people...where is your sensitivity and civility? No matter what someone says - does that give another a right to attack? Even if they were the abuser or did a major screw-up? A level of conflict is fine - what really matters is how you deal with it, and how we deal with it measures your level of civility and ability to reason and communicate. I would expect such behavior in high school, but certainly not within a site where people looking for answers to very serious, life threatening issues.

I understand anonymity of the Internet allows us to be a bit more candid; however, "The measure of a man's (woman's) character is how he behaves when no one is looking." Abraham Lincoln

If we make a mistake - kindly bring it to our attention. We will most likely respond in kind. Please don't use it as a weapon to hurt us. Even if our intent isn't so honorable - we aren't judge and jury, and I would think all of us are visiting this site because we need some help or we want to offer some of our expertise or experience.

speedallurement, you are premature in you comment and came out firing. I hope you are able to look a bit more at reconstructive ways to help someone, instead of attack. Had you have asked me a question for clarity, I would have been happy to comply.

Baystategirl: Thank you for addressing this as a second party. Any comment from me to speed...would have been perceived as an attack.

I am posting this for all to see....