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CA computer professional salary & exempt question.

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sdwebguy

Guest
What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state? CA

I run a group of 3-6 web designers, developers, database programmers, and web server adminnistrators. Since late last year the boss began requiring everyone in the group to punch time cards (except me - as I supervise at least 2 people). He explained the new California law means we are now non-exempt, hourly employees, and this is to protect the company from possible future lawsuits, according to his expert hr person's advice.

As far as I know, not every company in this area is dong this time card thing, including some very well-known companies. Also I think my employees meet both the CA salary test and the Professional Employee duties test, which means they are exempt.

Hope that's enough background info. What is your opinion?
 


cbg

I'm a Northern Girl
I think it doesn't matter one whit. Under the law, they can pay ANY employee as non-exempt, regardless of whether they qualify as exempt or not.

The reverse is not true. An employee who does not qualify as exempt can only be paid as non-exempt. An employer cannot make a non-qualifying employee, exempt.

But non-exempt is the default. They can pay any employee, up to and including the CEO, as non-exempt if they want to pay the overtime. It doesn't matter HOW many categories they might qualify as exempt under.

So if they've decided to make these employees non-exempt, that's perfectly legal regardless of whether they qualify as exempt or not.


BTW, it's perfectly legal to have an employee that you ARE paying as exempt punch a time card, as long as they don't modify the pay for the week based on it.
 
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sdwebguy

Guest
Thank you cbg for the reply.

I understand your explanation, and it's consistent with all your previous explanations in the forum.

The boss did say time and again, as I'd inquired several times to try to understand his intention and true requirements, that he'd rather not make everyone punch time cards either, but he's required by the new law to do this, otherwise the business may be open to lawsuits in the future about overtime pay.

Now my points are these:

1. Can the employees be classified as salaried and exempt? I think under the current law, these employees (myself included) are qualified to be classified as salaried, and they can be classified as exempt as well, as they meet both the salary and duties tests.

2. The boss does have the choice to classify them either way (from what I read and from my understanding of your explanation) and it seems he did decide to make them hourly, non-exempt.

3. But then he did say he'd rather not deal with the time cards.

4. So maybe he's ill-adviced by someone that he HAS to classified them as hourly non-exempt, therefore he HAS to enforce the time card rule. Maybe he doen't understand that he CAN classified them as salary exempt, and he DOENSN'T have to enforce the time cards as a result.

I suspected all along that there may be some major misinterpretation of the law on the boss' part, but I'm not sure. Am I way off base?
 
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sdwebguy

Guest
This issue is very important to me for the following reasons:

1. I'm responsible for hiring employees to meet our high standards of professionalism. But my employment offers to prospects look like a joke as the pay I'm allowed to offer (regardless of the time card issue) is also somewhat below market.

2. Moral is low among the programmers and our turn-over rate is high.

3. According to the boss I'm also in the same classification but I'm exempt because I supervise more than 2 people, otherwise he'll have to pay me $41-$42 per hour (which he won't) to be exempt according to CA law. If I have to punch time cards, I'm probably the first one to bail.

So I need to have good ammunition to go present to the boss what's wrong (business-wise, not legal-wise) with what we're doing.
 
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cbg

I'm a Northern Girl
I'm sorry, but there is simply not enough information in your post to determine whether or not these employees qualify as exempt. The job title doesn't matter; what matters is what they actually do. There is no way I can tell you based on their job titles, which is really all you have given me, whether or not they qualify.

Please do not provide me with job descriptions. While I am occasionally willing to tell someone that they do NOT qualify as exempt (since there is no legal penalty for error) if the details seem clear enough, I am not willing under any circumstances to tell someone, yes, you definitely qualify as exempt, without considerably more information than can be provided on a message board. There's too much risk of error and the penalty YOU would pay for MY mistake is not worth it.

I can't even tell you for absolutely certain whether YOU qualify. The fact that you supervise two or more people is NOT conclusive.

The fact remains that he EVEN IF he has received incorrect information he is still free to classify them as non-exempt.

You can find more information about exempt/non-exempt status under the DOL web site. Given the imminence of the change in regulations, I would suggest you look under the Fair Pay Act.
 
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sdwebguy

Guest
I guess then my questions boil down to the following, repeating my 4 points in a different way:

1. Let's assume I can independently confirm (through talking with the CA labor office or a local attorney) that the employees can be classified as salaried and non-exempt by meeting the two tests, then

2. Does the boss have the choice to classify them either way?

3. (I took this out as it is not relevant any longer the way I'm restating my questions).

4. If the answer to question 2) is yes, he can go either way, and if he HAS classified them as hourly non-exempt, then he HAS to enforce the time card rule (or use other ways) in order to track OT hours. Correct?

Conversely, if he has chosen to classified them as salary exempt, then he doesn't have to enforce the time cards as a result, but still can if he wants to - this has nothing to do with OT. Correct?

A third possiblility: if he has chosen to classified them as salary non-exempt, then he doesn't have to enforce the time cards, but may decide to do it to help him track OT. Correct?

If the answer to 2) is no then I'm sure you'll provide some explanation.

Sorry for the scenarios but your answers to these will help me decide if it's worth it to pursue this issue any further.

Thanks in advance.
 

cbg

I'm a Northern Girl
1. I assume you mean exempt, rather than non-exempt. If they only qualify as non-exempt, then they MUST be classified as non-exempt. IF they qualify as exempt, they CAN be classified as exempt but they MAY be classified as non-exempt.

An exempt employee is almost always paid on salary; they receive their entire salary every week (except in a very few, rigidly controlled circumstances*) no matter how many hours they work. They do not get overtime. If they only work 27 hours, they still get their entire salary; if they work 70 hours, they ONLY get their salary. They have no expectation of overtime EVER; they CANNOT be docked except in the circumstances already outlined.

A non-exempt employee MUST be paid for every hour that they work; however, they do not have to be paid for any time that they do not work. If they go home early, come in late, leave for a doctor's appointment or a child's school activity; they get docked. Conversely, they MUST be paid overtime for every hour they work over 40 in a week (and, since you are in CA, over 8 in a day). It IS legal to pay a non-exempt employee on a salaried basis, but ONLY if they also receive any overtime due.

2.) I don't know how to make this any more plain. An employee whose job duties classify them as non-exempt can ONLY be classified as a non-exempt. An employee who qualifies as exempt, can be classified as EITHER exempt or non-exempt as the boss chooses.

4.) If he chooses to classify them as non-exempt, then he must treat them as non-exempt, which means keeping track of their hours (either by time card or other method) and paying OT as earned. If he chooses to classify them as exempt, then he need not keep track of their hours OR pay overtime, but he may do either IF he chooses to.

As to your third possibility, if he is classifying them as non-exempt, then he must keep track of their hours somehow. It does not HAVE to be via time cards, but that is the easiest and most accurate way to do it, and whatever method he chooses must be accurate under the law.

These answers are not going to change no matter how many times you ask the questions. I don't care how much you want the answer to be that he must treat them as exempt if they so qualify - he doesn't. You can ask the question forty different ways and it's still going to come out that if he chooses to treat them as non-exempt, he can; also that at this point, we have no way of knowing (at least I don't) whether they actually could be treated as exempt. It's entirely possible, based on the information in your post, that he is correct and he DOES have to treat them as non-exempt under the law. Regardless of whether he has been given good or bad information, everything he is doing is legal. Don't neglect the possibility that he is claiming that he doesn't want to deal with time cards but is required to under the law, only as a justification (since a number of people believe it is somehow "better" to be exempt - it's a status thing). I understand your anxiety over this issue, but I am not going to answer these same questions again.

* An exempt employee can have his salary docked under the following conditions:

1.) It is either the first or last week of employment and the employee does not work the entire week
2.) The employee is on FMLA
3.) In a company with a bona fide sick time policy with a "reasonable" number of days (undefined in the statute but generally accepted as at least 5 and preferably more) the employee has already used all the sick time that he has or has qualified for, and then calls in sick again
4.) The employee takes a full day off for strictly personal reasons
5.) The employee has been suspended for a major safety violation (effective August 23 of this year, the limitation to a safety violation is lifted and the employee can be docked if he has been suspended for any disciplinary reason)
 
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sdwebguy

Guest
1) yes you are correct, I do mean salary and exempt on this line.
 
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sdwebguy

Guest
Actually cbg I was not looking for a different answer since I did not have any answer (or a very fuzzy one) to begin with. I just wanted an answer and you did it on your last post after I rephrase my questions, thank you. My motivation here is not looking to take him up legally. Since I have a small stake in this company myself, I just want to confirm some things I believe can be improved in order to cut down on the employee turn-over. As far as I know, the people who left us left on good terms with me (we still communicate), did say they enjoyed the work, and would stay if they could.

Thanks again.
 

cbg

I'm a Northern Girl
I hope it helps.

I don't want you to misunderstand. I am perfectly happy to answer any NEW questions you might have. But I think we've about beaten this particular horse to death. I'm not angry with you; I was just frustrated because I thought I'd explained everything plainly the first time.

Before you take this further, I want you to give some thought to this possibility. I touched on it in my last post but I was going to be late for a meeting with a client and couldn't develop it further at that time.

Because of the "status" issue of being exempt with some people, it is possible (and I've seen it happen) that the boss either knows that they definitely ONLY qualify as non-exempt, or has chosen definitely to classify them as non-exempt regardless, for whatever reason. He knows that they would prefer to be considered exempt and is using this "I don't really want to deal with time cards but I'm required to by law" as a way of first, easing the "humiliation" of being non-exempt and second, preventing people from giving him a hard time about whether they should or should not be considered exempt. In other words, to stop people from doing precisely what you are considering doing.

Personally, if I had my choice, I'd choose to be salaried non-exempt. I think it's the best of all possible worlds; you get paid a salary when you work 40 hours or less but you get OT when you work it.

One thing, not that it matters particularly but just for clarification, the change in law regarding exempt/non-exempt status that go into effect this month are not California law; they are Federal law.
 

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