Can arrears exist prior to a child support order existing?

[stepmom&mom]

What is the name of your state? Oklahoma

My dh pays child support through the Oklahoma CSED. He and his ex were never married and he signed an affidavit establishing paternity at the hospital. The mom and my dh lived together until the child was almost two years old and then split up. When they split up they did not have a custody order nor a child support order established. When my dh and I got married in 2003, the mom got mad and decided to file to establish a child support order. The order was signed willingly by my husband shortly thereafter.

However, my question is this: Being that there was no order for child support prior to that point and no custody/visitation order (yes, the mom withheld visitation from my dh until he finally went to court to get a visitation order), how is it possible that he could accrue $5000 in arrears from the onset of the child support order? He paid money to the mom whenever he could (mistakenly in cash with no proof of payment made) but I always thought that a person could not accrue child support arrears if there was no child support order. How would he have even known what amount to pay without an order?

 

[Zephyr]

was mom on state assistance????

 

[stepmom&mom]

They did show us where she had gotten TANF for her two kids (one of them my dh's and the other not) for two months, but that is all I know of for sure. I think she was on medicaid for some of the time too, but not continuously.

 

[stepmom&mom]

BTW, my husband voluntarily went to the CSED. They did not come to him first, although mom said she was going to file with them.

 

[fairisfair]

it really doesn't even matter if she was on assistance or not. The child support award apparently included retroactive child support, whether it was from the date of the order back to the date of filing, or before. For lack of a better term those monies are called "arrears" the same as unpaid current child support.

 

[Zephyr]

and has he contacted CSEA and asked why there are arrears and what is the breakdown of the amount?

 

[stepmom&mom]

We met with them initially when the order was drawn up. Originally, they wanted to charge him $12000 in arrears (they were going back to the date of the child's birth.) But he fought that and won because they lived together until the child was two, but he had to provide proof of a rental agreement showing that they lived together. We have just recently been talking to friends about his child support issues and everyone we've talked to thinks it is strange that he owes an arrearage. We can't seem to get out from under it because we pay current plus an amount towards the arrears each month, but the amount he has garnished from his check barely covers the interest we are being charged and we can't afford to pay more than we already are. It seems like we are never going to get out from under this.

 

[fairisfair]

We met with them initially when the order was drawn up. Originally, they wanted to charge him $12000 in arrears (they were going back to the date of the child's birth.) But he fought that and won because they lived together until the child was two, but he had to provide proof of a rental agreement showing that they lived together. We have just recently been talking to friends about his child support issues and everyone we've talked to thinks it is strange that he owes an arrearage. We can't seem to get out from under it because we pay current plus an amount towards the arrears each month, but the amount he has garnished from his check barely covers the interest we are being charged and we can't afford to pay more than we already are. It seems like we are never going to get out from under this.

well then, obviously the "arrears" that you are talking about were calculated from the time they split up. I don't think it is strange at all that he owes that money. Why wasn't he supporting his child? Did he think that he didn't have too? So there was no court order, did he think that there never would be? Why wasn't he setting that money aside for when the court did order the child support. If he had done that he could have paid it off right then. I notice that you have no concern for how mom cared for the child during the time that dad was not paying. Geesh. Funny thing about having kids, you are right, it seems like you never "get out from under it".

 

[stepmom&mom]

I didn't say he didn't pay anything. I said that he and the mom had an agreement and he paid her cash to help support the child. Of course, as I said before, that wasn't very smart, but he did pay her and she KNOWS it, but she also knows he didn't have proof so she took him for everything. Also, she tried to get him to sign his parental rights away early on. She said she didn't want him involved and that, I believe, is why she didn't run right out and get a child support order then. However, when we got married, she got really mad and then decided she wanted the money afterall. Look, I'm not saying that he shouldn't support his child, but this seems fishy and excessive to me.

I didn't mention the fact that I have an ex who owes more than $20000 in child support, disappeared when my son was a year old and he is now eight years old. I had an order through CSED, but they told me that they didn't know where he was and they were closing the case. So, you don't need to tell me about supporting a child. People like my dh try to do the right thing and the CSED tries to screw them over by charging so much interest and arrears that they can never catch up, but people like my ex get off free.

It was my understanding, from what I've read here that arrears can only accrue from the time the child support order is entered, but apparently I'm wrong.

 

[moburkes]

Alright, stepmom. You said:

He paid money to the mom whenever he could

Children don't eat and clothe themselves. So, what does whenever he could mean? His responsibility isn't to pay whenever he has extra cash. Maybe this should have been dealt with before, and he wouldn't have this problem now. He could have had his own order established.

Sometimes, this stuff happens when we have illegitimate children. If he was married, and got divorced, this would have been addressed at that time.

Since you have an ex who hasn't supported his child, why wouldn't you think that it was your current hubby's responsibility to support his?

Also, she tried to get him to sign his parental rights away early on. She said she didn't want him involved and that, I believe, is why she didn't run right out and get a child support order then.

This is irrelevant to the topic. He didn't do it, therefore he has an obligation to pay. And, if he DID do it, he would still owe the back support $.

 

[stepmom&mom]

You are making this sound like something it is not. Believe me, if you added up everything we've paid thus far (current child support, money towards interest and arrearage, all of the tax returns that she has gotten of his), she is not, and has not been suffering. This is not an issue of the child not being taken care of by dad. When I said that he paid whenever he could, I know that you are used to thinking that that means that the dad just paid pennies whenever he didn't have something he didn't want to buy, but that is not the case. He paid her quite well and all while being denied visitation with his daughter. He has provided health insurance and even though we pay child support and it should be used for this purpose, we bought her a whole new wardrobe of clothes for school because mom refused to buy her any with the child support she receives. Not only that, but we STILL pay for daycare which she does not utilize because the CSED doesn't want to change it. Don't make my dh out to be a deadbeat because he is not. He does his fair share. But I'm not going to lie to you when I say that I think we are being taken and what has been ordered is not ethically just.

 

[moburkes]

I only responded to what you wrote. My kids don't get new clothes; I can't afford it. His child isn't required to have them either. And, by the way, its dad's money, not yours, that pays the child support.

 

[Neal1421]

. He has provided health insurance and even though we pay child support and it should be used for this purpose, we bought her a whole new wardrobe of clothes for school because mom refused to buy her any with the child support she receives.

Child support does not usually include the cost of insurance unless the dad is unable to provide the insurance so this statement is incorrect. Dad should have been responsible for the health insurance in addition to child support.

Your husband was not required to buy the child new clothes, that was his choice.

 

[stepmom&mom]

I didn't say that child support should include the cost of health insurance. I said he provided health insurance. I said that child support should cover the cost of clothes. She had to have new clothes. She was coming over to our house wearing shoes with holes in them, and clothes that were size 24 months and she was almost 6 years old! Her mom sure had enough money to by digital cameras, ipods and plenty of nice clothes for herself. I didn't say she should buy new designer clothes, but there is no excuse for her having clothes that don't fit or have holes in them when he pays child support.

 

[fairisfair]

You are making this sound like something it is not. Believe me, if you added up everything we've paid thus far (current child support, money towards interest and arrearage, all of the tax returns that she has gotten of his), she is not, and has not been suffering. This is not an issue of the child not being taken care of by dad. When I said that he paid whenever he could, I know that you are used to thinking that that means that the dad just paid pennies whenever he didn't have something he didn't want to buy, but that is not the case. He paid her quite well and all while being denied visitation with his daughter. He has provided health insurance and even though we pay child support and it should be used for this purpose, we bought her a whole new wardrobe of clothes for school because mom refused to buy her any with the child support she receives. Not only that, but we STILL pay for daycare which she does not utilize because the CSED doesn't want to change it. Don't make my dh out to be a deadbeat because he is not. He does his fair share. But I'm not going to lie to you when I say that I think we are being taken and what has been ordered is not ethically just.

whatever, most people who pay for something are intelligent enough to get a receipt for it. If your husband had been paying all along and had those receipts, regardless of the popular belief on this forum, there is a very good chance that he would have received credit for that payment. I know mine did, of course I fully admitted that he gave me that earth shattering whopping $300 in 15 years payment.

So he bought his kid school clothes, wow, you know many parents pay over and above what the court orders as the MINIMUM that they must pay. They do it because they love their children and put them first. Novel idea huh?

If he was denied visitation, then he should have taken steps to enforce that visitation, you know, kind of like the steps mom has taken to enforce child support. The court room door swings both ways you know.

I don't think anyone hear has called your husband a deadbeat. You a Crybaby, and definitely over-involved, maybe, but I don't see here where anyone has used the term deadbeat, except you. You actually were at the meeting where they discussed child support arrears? incredible.