Can bankruptcy reverse HOA sale of home??

[NEone]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Florida

Desperately need advice before my mother ends up homeless.

In short, she was awarded home in Florida with all debts on it to be paid off (balance of mortgage & back HOA dues) by ex-husband, so she had a home to live in free & clear as she is 60 years old and suffering from ovarian cancer. He of course hasn't paid a dime which led to her attempting to rent and/or sell the home which HOA naturally refused applications because of back balance. One thing to note is that she offered to pay them in FULL, despite it being ex's Court ordered responsibility, and they still refused.

She has now just gotten notification that the home had in fact been foreclosed on & sold to the HOA back in January for 1/3 of the amount they claimed they were owed, and they have remarked that she continues to reside in the residence without their consent. She is now sick & worried to death of being evicted and has had several suggest bankruptcy to stop things from going any further, but will that do anything with the "sale" having already transpired? I have looked up the record and the deed is in fact now in the HOA name. Is there anything that can be done to reverse this? Are there any grounds based on the fact that they prevented both numerous rentals as well as a sale which would have paid them off entirely & brought the home current? Please, I am so sick over this and would appreciate anyone's advice!

 

[justalayman]

One thing to note is that she offered to pay them in FULL, despite it being ex's Court ordered responsibility, and they still refused.

this makes no sense. Regardless what the court ordered, if she was/is liable for the costs, then she still remains liable for those costs. The HOA is not a party to the divorce so the divorce decree cannot alter that liability.

What was their explanation when refusing payment in full?

the home had in fact been foreclosed on & sold to the HOA back in January

who foreclosed on it?

and a foreclosure does not come about as a surprise. There are requirements of notification. Did she ignore all of that communication from whomever foreclosed?



If it was a mortgage foreclosure, there is a right of redemption. To redeem the property, the owner has to pay the full balance of the loan plus costs but that has to be done before there is a certificate of Sale issued to the buyer.

 

[NEone]

this makes no sense. Regardless what the court ordered, if she was/is liable for the costs, then she still remains liable for those costs. The HOA is not a party to the divorce so the divorce decree cannot alter that liability.

That's what I said too, but that was reality. She was NOT to be liable for the HOA costs, nor the mortgage, as those were deemed HIS responsibility in the final divorce judgment. The HOA also received copies of the Orders. The home was to be made current for her, by him.

What was their explanation when refusing payment in full?

There was no explanation. They simply said it was unacceptable. Which also makes no sense to me after they initially REQUESTED proposals for only a PORTION of the rental proceeds. Then suddenly payment in full wasn't good enough? I find it hard to believe that they'd waste their time with pointless proposals for nothing.. or was it a change of heart? Did they decide they'd rather just have the whole house?

who foreclosed on it?

The HOA.

and a foreclosure does not come about as a surprise. There are requirements of notification. Did she ignore all of that communication from whomever foreclosed?

This is where it gets even more murky to me. There was never any notification. Never any HOA bills. BECAUSE everything was the ex's court ordered responsibility, all notifications were ordered to be sent to him (he is out of state), and any time she would call to try to get information, they would say she was not authorized to get any. This is how it eventually got as far as it is now.. I even finally called at one point and said that if they wanted to be paid so badly, why not send a statement to the person they're demanding it from? Nothing. No one was allowed to have any information but him. But we can see how far that went.

And yes, she's been through several lawyers already in attempts to resolve this but you know how they say you can't get blood from a rock. He just continues to not pay.

If it was a mortgage foreclosure, there is a right of redemption. To redeem the property, the owner has to pay the full balance of the loan plus costs but that has to be done before there is a certificate of Sale issued to the buyer.

This leads me to another question.. How is it the HOA was able to purchase the home & have the deed put in their name when there is still a mortgage balance on it?

 

[justalayman]

NEone;3043688]That's what I said too, but that was reality. She was NOT to be liable for the HOA costs, nor the mortgage, as those were deemed HIS responsibility in the final divorce judgment. The HOA also received copies of the Orders. The home was to be made current for her, by him.

the court order has nothing to do with the HOA. It cannot order them to take any action and it does not allow them to take any action.

The HOA.

so they foreclosed on a lien. Yet still there are court hearings that would deal with this.

This is where it gets even more murky to me. There was never any notification. Never any HOA bills. BECAUSE everything was the ex's court ordered responsibility, all notifications were ordered to be sent to him (he is out of state), and any time she would call to try to get information, they would say she was not authorized to get any.

The court cannot order the HOA to do anything since they were not a party to the divorce action. but since it appears they were acting in some sort of compliance with the order, maybe they sent notifications to the ex-husband.

This leads me to another question.. How is it the HOA was able to purchase the home & have the deed put in their name when there is still a mortgage balance on it?

how about another question: in whose name was the home in? If both, how was it held?

and yes, the fact there was a mortgage would seem to make the foreclosure on the property could simply not happen as it did.

 

[NEone]

the court order has nothing to do with the HOA. It cannot order them to take any action and it does not allow them to take any action.

The agreement & order was worded exactly as I said. He was to bring all balances current as well as pay off the mortgage, and copies of this were sent to both companies BY the court to make them aware of that fact. Frankly, I don't understand why the court would do that if it had no bearing on anything. It also did in fact order that all bills were to go to the ex, which was what the HOA seemed to take & run with any time my mother tried to get any information on the accounts.

so they foreclosed on a lien. Yet still there are court hearings that would deal with this.

Is there something specific you would advise that she seek, or ask to file? Someone else mentioned finding out if there is still any possibility of redemption, but the notice that she received today said that there is not.

The court cannot order the HOA to do anything since they were not a party to the divorce action. but since it appears they were acting in some sort of compliance with the order, maybe they sent notifications to the ex-husband.

They did. It was court ordered that he receive the bills for both the home mortgage and the HOA. The mortgage has been getting paid (though usually on a month's delay or so). The HOA has been left.

how about another question: in whose name was the home in? If both, how was it held?

Originally it was just my mother's name, as she bought the home cash. To make a very long story short, he had a mortgage put on it in both of their names to acquire another property, which is how it stood at the time of divorce. Once the divorce was finalized, it was ordered that his name be removed from the deed once his obligations were paid off, but there was some legal push by his attorney (I do not know all the details of) that had his name removed ahead of time. The property was solely in her name for no more than 1.5-2 months before the HOA apparently pounced.

and yes, the fact there was a mortgage would seem to make the foreclosure on the property could simply not happen as it did.

That was my knee-jerk reaction and I had her immediately call the mortgage company to check the standing of the account, and there is still a six figure balance on it. Just one more thing that makes me think there's a rat in the wood pile somewhere.

 

[justalayman]

NEone;3043718]The agreement & order was worded exactly as I said. He was to bring all balances current as well as pay off the mortgage, and copies of this were sent to both companies BY the court to make them aware of that fact. Frankly, I don't understand why the court would do that if it had no bearing on anything. It also did in fact order that all bills were to go to the ex, which was what the HOA seemed to take & run with any time my mother tried to get any information on the accounts.

well, the order cannot direct an outside party to do anything. It can only control actions of the parties to the suit: your mother, her ex, the court. Now, in that, if your mother and the ex directed all billing etc to be sent to him, then that is a different issue. I suspect your mother at least acquiesced to the HOA sending the bills to the ex since she expected the x to pay the bills.

Is there something specific you would advise that she seek, or ask to file? Someone else mentioned finding out if there is still any possibility of redemption, but the notice that she received today said that there is not.

Honestly I suspect there is a lot either you are not aware of or not realizing the importance of. Courts do not simply allow a foreclosure on a lien without some notification to the parties involved. If there was no actual notice (as in something the court records would have to be checked for), then there is a defense in that itself.

Originally it was just my mother's name, as she bought the home cash. To make a very long story short, he had a mortgage put on it in both of their names to acquire another property, which is how it stood at the time of divorce. Once the divorce was finalized, it was ordered that his name be removed from the deed once his obligations were paid off, but there was some legal push by his attorney (I do not know all the details of) that had his name removed ahead of time. The property was solely in her name for no more than 1.5-2 months before the HOA apparently pounced.

so, his name was added to the deed at the time of the issuing of the mortgage? How, exactly, was title held? Florida allows for tenants in common, joints tenants, tenants in the entirety.

That was my knee-jerk reaction and I had her immediately call the mortgage company to check the standing of the account, and there is still a six figure balance on it. Just one more thing that makes me think there's a rat in the wood pile somewhere

so, since her name is still on the mortgage loan, I would think she has contacted the lender to investigate the status of the loan. Are they aware of the lien foreclosure? They would be senior to the HOA lien so they would surely have to be made aware of the action to foreclose. In fact, generally, they would have to specifically allow the action as they would have the right to purchase the HOA lien in a preliminary action of the foreclosure to prevent the completion of the foreclosure process.

Due to the immediacy of the need for action, I would strongly suggest hiring an attorney who can review all of the germane facts and advise your mother.

 

[NEone]

well, the order cannot direct an outside party to do anything. It can only control actions of the parties to the suit: your mother, her ex, the court. Now, in that, if your mother and the ex directed all billing etc to be sent to him, then that is a different issue. I suspect your mother at least acquiesced to the HOA sending the bills to the ex since she expected the x to pay the bills.

Yes, it was expected & known that HOA bills were to go to the ex, however it was also expected that he'd be paying them. When they (the HOA) started demanding payment from -her- and holding her responsible for his default, she called to try and get information on just how much was owed and to have the bills then sent to her (this was at the time that she would have been able to readily pay and bring everything current), but they would not talk to her nor give her any information, citing that only the ex could have things changed to allow her that access.

Honestly I suspect there is a lot either you are not aware of or not realizing the importance of. Courts do not simply allow a foreclosure on a lien without some notification to the parties involved. If there was no actual notice (as in something the court records would have to be checked for), then there is a defense in that itself.

That is another interesting thing. A friend had suggested that until things were ironed out with the HOA that someone keep tabs on the Court records. I made this my task, and up until about two weeks ago, there was nothing on the record. When the case finally appeared, there were motions and actions dating as far back as January of this year, which was the date of the actual sale to the HOA. Title was then issued to them in February, along with a document stating that because no action was taken in opposition to the sale within the allowed period of time, "case closed" more or less. No notice was made to her regarding ANY of these actions. There was also nothing out of the ordinary when she called to check the mortgage status in -March-. They simply told her everything was up to date and when the ex's next payment was due.

so, his name was added to the deed at the time of the issuing of the mortgage? How, exactly, was title held? Florida allows for tenants in common, joints tenants, tenants in the entirety.

Yes. When the mortgage was issued, she was listed first, and he second. I will look into the details, but generally speaking, his name was not to be removed until the mortgage balance was paid off in full & the HOA was brought current. How he had it done early I will have to look into as well.

so, since her name is still on the mortgage loan, I would think she has contacted the lender to investigate the status of the loan. Are they aware of the lien foreclosure? They would be senior to the HOA lien so they would surely have to be made aware of the action to foreclose. In fact, generally, they would have to specifically allow the action as they would have the right to purchase the HOA lien in a preliminary action of the foreclosure to prevent the completion of the foreclosure process.

Yes, this was what I had her do immediately when the Court records showing the January sale of the home appeared. It was the end of March, and she called them to see if somehow the ex paid off the mortgage (as he has been trying to refinance another property in order to do so) thus leaving only the HOA to be able to move forward, but the mortgage was still intact, had not been paid off, and the next payment was due from him as per usual. Nothing out of the ordinary or any awareness of any foreclosure action or even the -sale- to the HOA.

Due to the immediacy of the need for action, I would strongly suggest hiring an attorney who can review all of the germane facts and advise your mother.

Yes of course, I am absolutely seeking counsel for this, but it greatly helps in the meantime (and I thank you very, very much) to have someone bringing up certain points or differentiating views that I might otherwise not have considered.

 

[justalayman]

NEone;3043790]Yes, it was expected & known that HOA bills were to go to the ex, however it was also expected that he'd be paying them. When they (the HOA) started demanding payment from -her- and holding her responsible for his default, she called to try and get information on just how much was owed and to have the bills then sent to her (this was at the time that she would have been able to readily pay and bring everything current), but they would not talk to her nor give her any information, citing that only the ex could have things changed to allow her that access.

I would have to think somewhere along the line she agreed to the change. If so, I see not a real problem with them following such an agreement.

That is another interesting thing. A friend had suggested that until things were ironed out with the HOA that someone keep tabs on the Court records. I made this my task, and up until about two weeks ago, there was nothing on the record. When the case finally appeared, there were motions and actions dating as far back as January of this year, which was the date of the actual sale to the HOA. Title was then issued to them in February, along with a document stating that because no action was taken in opposition to the sale within the allowed period of time, "case closed" more or less. No notice was made to her regarding ANY of these actions. There was also nothing out of the ordinary when she called to check the mortgage status in -March-. They simply told her everything was up to date and when the ex's next payment was due.

I missed something. How can the property be sold in Jan or Feb and no court action taken until 2 weeks ago? There can be no motions or actions by the court unless there is a case opened. You cannot magically make court orders in the past.

Yes. When the mortgage was issued, she was listed first, and he second. I will look into the details, but generally speaking, his name was not to be removed until the mortgage balance was paid off in full & the HOA was brought current. How he had it done early I will have to look into as well.

there is no first or second on a deed. They are co-tenants and unless described differently, are equal 1/2 owners.

Yes, this was what I had her do immediately when the Court records showing the January sale of the home appeared.

You must have missed something. There can be no court records if there was no case opened.

It was the end of March, and she called them to see if somehow the ex paid off the mortgage (as he has been trying to refinance another property in order to do so) thus leaving only the HOA to be able to move forward, but the mortgage was still intact, had not been paid off, and the next payment was due from him as per usual. Nothing out of the ordinary or any awareness of any foreclosure action or even the -sale- to the HOA.

and they said what when they were informed that there was a lien sale or foreclosure to the HOA for delinquent fees?

 

[justalayman]

You locked your other thread, which is actually good. You should keep everything involving the same topic in the same thread.


was the address the notices sent to your mothers address?

I have not checked your rules of service but many states allow any adult at the home to be given the notice and it be proper notice.

I am not ignoring what you said about the description and everything. Just trying to see if there is an easier way to argue defective service than claiming they did not serve you.

 

[NEone]

A new twist

You locked your other thread, which is actually good. You should keep everything involving the same topic in the same thread.


was the address the notices sent to your mothers address?

I have not checked your rules of service but many states allow any adult at the home to be given the notice and it be proper notice.

I am not ignoring what you said about the description and everything. Just trying to see if there is an easier way to argue defective service than claiming they did not serve you.

Yes, the address that was on the notices were my mother's address. They claimed that I was out in the front yard each time, doing various things on all these various days, and that they served me with the papers, asking me an entire slew of questions that I willingly answered for them. As you can imagine, I'm absolutely irate..

I hear you as well. I realize it's probably a futile thing to claim that they didn't serve me at all, but it's the God's honest truth. I am in the middle of all the papers right now, trying to pin down dates and times to figure out where I -actually- was at the times and then get statements from the people I was with.