Can Father's parents file for custody against seperated mother

[PennFriend]

States in question: Penn and NCarolina

I am assisting my friend in protecting her from possibly loosing her children to her mother and father in law (that is if this is possible).

My friend now lives in NC with her 4 children (5,8,10,and11). She has lived there since August 2003. Her and her husband and kids moved there from Penn in August. Recently she has asked her husband to leave because they were not getting along at all. She sayd he was drinking, not willing to look for work and just hanging with friend while she was working tosupport the kids. He has left the house now for about 2 weeks.

My friend is considering moving back to Penn because she has no friends or family in NC. They had only moved there because of his parents living there. In Penn she has two sisters, and two brothers and a mother living in the area that she was to move back to (this was where she had originally moved from in August).

The concern here is that in the past her mother and father in law had custody of the kids because she felt she could not support them financially properly so allowed her mother in law to take custody of the kids. That award has expired as of the beginning of thisyear (from what she tells me). With that being the truth let's say is it possible now that since she has asked her husband to leave the house and wants to move back to Penn with her kids can her mother in law file for custody of her grandkids. My friend, the mother has no history of abuse, alcholal or anything else like that. the kids are much more comfortable with her and prefer her taking care of them. There is no legal separationg or filing for divorce at this point.

She is working but having problems paying the bills. The trailer that she isliving in was rented by her and her husband but cosigned by her father in law. She is having problems paying the rent and has mentioned to people her lack of money for food; calling friends and family to ask for assistance.

She has said that she wants to move back to Penn where her 2 brothers, 2 sisters and mother live to receive assistance from them in the way of babysitting (while she is at work) and also to start a new life again without her husband. Her plans to come back to Penn is at X-Mas time so she does not uproot the kids during the school year.

My friend is a very sweet person but sometimes does not look ahead and let's things go for too long and does not see them as a concern until maybe it is too late.

Is there any reason for her to feel that she should leave NCarolina now (instead of waiting till Xmas) and return to Penn now to get settled as soon as possible so in case her mother in law decides now she wants the kids again as in the past.

My feelings (although I know it does not matter to the court) is that she should leave NCarolina now (as soon as possible) and return to Pennn where she has relatives to help her care for her kids. Her being in NCarolina by herself leaves me with the feeling that the mother in law may try to prove that in order for my friend to work she must leave her kids with strangers etc. My friends mother/father in law live in NCarolina.

so far there does not to be an immediate threat by the mother in law but with my friend blabbing her mouth about her lack of money etc I feel may just add fire to this.

My feeling is the sooner she takes herself and her 4 kids out of NCarolina and back to Penn the better off she will be.

I know this is a bit vaige but I am just trying to help her prevent a problem before it starts. She does truly love her kids and cares about them deeply but does not see any reason that she needs to return ASAP; where I feel it is in her best interest to do so.

Any thoughts would be appreciated on this.

Thank you.

PS my other feelings are:

#1 - that if her mother in law files for custody my friend at that point will not be allowed to leave NCarolina with her kids and move back to Penn.

#2 - if she moves back prior to her mother in law filing for custody of the kids the mother in law will have a far more difficult time of getting custody since she is in NCarolina and the kids are living in Penn with their mother, 2 uncles and 2 aunts already.

 

[February2003]

You didn't mention too much about the father of the four children. If mom is so poor, I hope she has "blabbled" her mouth to dad. He is obligated to support his kids.

Why move four kids away from their father and from grandparents who have helped raise them? Mom can start a new life without her hubby in North Carolina. Yeah, its not what she wants, but she should keep the kids interest at the top of her priority list.

What is the difference from her relatives babysitting in PA than the grandparents babysitting in NC? I don't see a problem- it must be person issues. Alaways personal issues and selfishness, and the feeling that one always knows best that go mucking up innocent childrens lives.

 

[Grace_Adler]

Ok, well this is me. I am totally for father's rights but, if the children would be better off financially in PA, then I think that's where she needs to go. There is no gaurantee that her in laws are going to help out or the father. She can ask for support but that doesn't mean she will get it. It depends on what kind of guy he is. The kids have family in PA too, so they have an interest there. You gotta do what you gotta do. One has to ask themselves.. Ok, do I want to stay here broke in hopes that Dad will support them and see them but it may not happen or would I be able to support my kids emotionally and financially better if I move back to "whatever place" where they have family, and I can support them better? Sometimes what we want and what we need are two different things. Should Dad be with the kids? Sure, but at what cost? If he isn't going to see them or support them, what's the point? Only you or her can answer those questions. I really don't see how she's being selfish. If you can support your kids better somewhere else, why stay somewhere else and stay broke? That just doesn't make sense. Those bills aren't going to pay themselves.

Now if he will faithfully support those kids and the family helps her out, then she should stay.

If the custody order is invalid now, I wouldn't worry about them getting custody again too much.

Yes, if she moves, I think it will make the case harder, JMHO.

If there is a custody case pending, I don't know if that puts restrictions on whether she can leave or not.

 

[PennFriend]

Thanks for the replies

The grandparents and father live 2 1/2 hours away from my friend. So impossible for the grandparents to babysit or personally take care of the kids on a regular basis. Therefore at this point I believe only day care or paying a babysitter will be her only alternative. She has no friends to sit for her kids at this point because they just moved there a few months ago and her husband would not let her leave the house to make any friends due to jealousy. The grandparents call every 3 to 4 days to say hi to the kids and are nice to my friend. The father has not called once nor has he or his parents sent her any money for the kids in the way of food, clothing or anything else. In Penn she will have the support of her brothers, sisters and mother whom the kids all love and like a lot. They have far more friends in this area and mommy asked them where they would like to be now and they said Penn. So far the father lives 2 1/2 hours because he is staying with his parents and have not once called and asked to speak with the kids since he left almost 2 1/2 weeks ago.

Me and her brother, sisters and mother have sent her down some money to help with her bills and food for the kids. The grandparents do have money and just don't help out.

So with the grandparents 2 1/2 hours away and daddy being that far and neither the grandparents or daddy either babysitting,visiting or helping out financially is there really a reason for her to stay since she has no friends there to rely on for assistance or even a safe place for the kids to stay until mommy gets home from work. If one of the kids were like 16 or so then he/she could possibly watch the younger ones a few hours til mom gets home.

I really don't see much of a reason for her to stay in NCarolina at this point. No family, no friends and any money she will make at work wil go to a babysitter or day care center.

Any other thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks

 

[Grace_Adler]

Well, that's pretty much what I expected you to say. LOL

Weelll, if it were me, I'd give it a couple of more weeks, if that is feasible and if I still hadn't heard from him, I'd pack my stuff and head back to PA. I'd call him and leave the forwarding number and address (although I suspect he knows how to get up with her there) and tell him since he can't take care of his kids and visit with them then there was no reason to stay where I couldn't support them ALONE. So he could contact me there and once settled, we could go ahead and get the matter of support, custody and visitation out of the way. I mean, she would be better off financially to take care of the kids, she has family there and the kids want to go, so.. I'd go. I'd go ahead and get myself settled and get on with my life and try to give my kids a good life, with or without him.. that's his choice and it sounds like he's made his choice.

If he doesn't help them now or very soon, I wouldn't hold my breath on him paying support either but that doesn't mean I wouldn't file for it.

But that's just me.

 

[February2003]

So, mom doesn't want to lose/give custody of the children to the grandparents again. The poster thinks that is less likely to happen if mom and kids live with mom's family. I can see the point in that.

Still, the dad has only been gone "about two weeks." She needs to get on the phone with the father and the in-laws and describe her sitaution, and what her options are. Those children are not soley hers- they are his kids too, and he has a say in wether they move 500 miles away!

These parents need to establish how they are going to live now that dad has left- as far as money, visitation, divorcing- etc. She may as well call him and get it all ironed out from the get-go instead of just jumping ship and taking his kids. If she quickly and rashly moves dad and grandparents will batteling with her for years to come.

 

[Bay1954]

Pennsylvania has a very poor track record for parents' rights (moms or dads). Grandparents can fight for custody --actual custody with the parents then forced to pay support to the GPS. The statute in PA is appalling. There have been many horoor stories. There has been some recent case law , however, that is shifting the tide toward the parents' favor. I can not remember the name of the most recent case. If you go to www.google.com click on news and then search for grandparents rights in pennsylvania--you should get some info. I would strongly suggest against not moving the children back to PA if this is a concern for the parents.
If your friend does wish, in the end, to move back to PA --I strongly and I mean STRONGLY suggest that she contact an atty there who has already fought for parents rights.

 

[Grace_Adler]

Well, I don't know how he could go 2 weeks without checking on his kids and seeing if they need him or come visit. He's not stupid, he knows the situation, he was there. She has no money, no job, no family and no friends. No one to help out. They are over 2 hours away. I'd be damned if I'd go 2 weeks without checking on mine or seeing what they needed.

Yeah, I'd call him. I'd be like, "This is the deal-- you know I have no money, no job, no friends, and no family here. I sacrificed to move here for you. It's been 2 weeks and you have not called to check on the kids, you haven't come to see them and you haven't called to see if they need anything or how you can help out. Now, something needs to change because if it doesn't, you know I'm going to have to move back to PA. So what's it gonna be? How do you want to handle this? You live over 2 hours away so how are you gonna help me with our children or do I have to do it alone? I need to know something so I can start making some arrangements and I can't constantly be sitting around wondering what to do and what you're gonna do. We need to discuss this and start making some plans."

 

[PennFriend]

Bay1954 - thank you for your reply but the news article in Google just comes up with advertising on PennLive. Can you please elaborate on your information so that I know what to search for in other areas of the net.

I appreciate the personal advise and suggestions that everyone so far has provided but I am at this point looking for legal advise on this matter to share with my friend, not just opinions and suggestions from individuals. I need to provide my friend with as much information as possible. She is a sweetheart but not too swift when it comes to matters like this. She is more of a - wait and see kind of person - "I'll just ride it out and see what happens", which usually leads to doing something or taking action when it is too late. As in not taking the right steps from the start. This is how she ended up living in NCarolina. It was to please her husband. In Penn he kept getting fired from jobs, sitting at home doing nothing but watching TV all day or going to his friends to play videogames and drink. He convinced her that this would change if they moved down to NCarolina and started a new life. It did not change.

Thanks

 

[Bay1954]

Penn Friend--
Two recent cases--in one the mother's last name is Slepecki (try a google search o nthat) A judge had given custody to the paternal GPs --she spent over $15,000 to get it back.
Another recent case--mother's name Bonnie Miller --atty Karen Ferri. Bonnie Miller is a widow. Paternal GPS filed suit to prevent her from relocating.
In PA--visitation and custody same thing. Visitation is actually termed partial custody. Try looking up PA statutes.
There were other cases within the last couple of years some where even intact families were sued (intact families may be sued in PA by GPS for visitation(partial custody) and full custody. Try a straight google web search (not the news)
Again, the state is a nightmare.

 

[PennFriend]

Bay1954 - thanks for the information. I read up on the cases filed in Penn by the GP's.

In the first case - Slepecki - the grandparents convinced the court at first that the mother would not be fit if she was working night hours - which was stated at first. Then it was said that because she is an exotic dancer that this would not be a good lifestyle for the child having his mother doing this kind of work. Theonly reason why the court stated that was because the first factor of her working late hours at night just would not fly because then that would mean any parent working late hours such as working at Walmart, supermarket etc would not make that parent a fit parent. So since that did not fly they went for the exotic dancer and also that the child had ADD which the grandparents felt the child should not be treated with meds. Also the grandparents lived in Pa.

The second case was a widow who wanted to remarry and then move her and the child to NCarolina. The grandparents filed suit not because she had intention of moving (Originally) but because the mother cut off communications with the grandparents because when she told the grandparents she was moving the grandparent refused to turn over the child. The mother cut off communications which then fourced the grandmother to file suit. Once again the grandparet lived in Penn.

I will pass this on tomy friend. Thanks again for your help.

 

[Bay1954]

These are just two cases--there have been many more. Keep in mind that the petition for custody is filed in the state in which the children live--not where the gps live.
I really think you should get a hold of a PA atty who has actually fought for parents.
In the past, there were other instances where there were no allegations as to the parents being unfit and still, the GPS won at trial court level.
Also, there are instances where a deadbeat parent has had his/her parents sue for GPV--the GPS are awarded vistitation--often-- in PA custody. I think you get the scenario.
Please have your friend contact a PA atty highly skilled in representing parents in actions brought by grandparents.
Good luck.

 

[michelledart]

first thing that needs to be considered is if the courts gave the grandparents custody then the courts has to legally give the mother custody back. then if she has only legally been in nc since august she has to be in that state for six months to become a legal resident of that state.but if the father and his parents can proove that she can not take care of the children then yes they will be awarded custody again but only if the father does not or cannot himself take care of the children. tell her to pack up and go because if the father gets visitation rights then its going to be even harder for her to leave that state when and if she wants to. and also the grandparents can file for a motion for grandparents rights which will also withhold her from moving. i know been there done that!!!!!!

 

[Bay1954]

Michelle,
Tell me more about GP visitation and custody in NC. Email me if you want (Pennfriend--also, please feel free to email me--I can help your friend with PA laws).
DASHJUST@aol.com
Bay