Case Law and the legality of secession in the 1860's

[Just Blue]

Three million blacks died in the Civil war, according to Congress census figures in 1866. No the Lincoln presidency was a dark time for black people.

Please provide that link.

You might also consider the millions of FREE peoples that were kidnapped from their homes to die on slave ships or the plantations of indolent and self-entitled whites both in the north and south. What out ancestors did to those people is **************not fit to say on this forum.

 

[Cannae]

Were those southern free blacks or northern slave blacks.

All slaves, including loss of life incurred before birth.

So what are you attempting to do? If its that whole "sovereign bit" then you are an idiot. Why? because if you claim to be sovereign then you must provide all of your utilities yourself, all of your "stuff" yourself. How are you providing internet access yourself? If you declare yourself to be sovereign then you must have treaties with other nations to provide you what you cannot provide on your own...do you expect the US to be willing to sign a treaty giving you the right to utlity access? Do you expect any countries to give you access to anything that you cannot provide on your own?

No it was a states rights matter. For the secession to be illegal it must've been denied to the states, per the 10th amendment.

Please provide that link.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=443025&page=5

 

[justalayman]

Please provide that link.

You might also consider the millions of FREE peoples that were kidnapped from their homes to die on slave ships or the plantations of indolent and self-entitled whites both in the north and south. What out ancestors did to those people is **************not fit to say on this forum.

actually slavery in the US was started by a black man as the owner of a black slave.

 

[Mnemosyne]

Your unsourced 1866 census figures include unborn persons?

All slaves, including loss of life incurred before birth.

 

[Cannae]

Your unsourced 1866 census figures include unborn persons?

Perhaps you should read my edit and not be rude. Anyways my original question was a law one, so rather we stay on topic.

 

[Just Blue]

Perhaps you should read my edit and not be rude. Anyways my original question was a law one, so rather we stay on topic.

This is a forum for, the most part, Pro Se litigants. Are you filing to secede from the United States? Or just to rehash 170 year old history?

 

[Cannae]

This is a forum for, the most part, Pro Se litigants. Are you filing to secede from the United States? Or just to rehash 170 year old history?

No I don't plan on seceding anytime, rather looking for legal arguments to apply for a historical event. Secession nowadays is illegal, but whether it was back then was my question.

 

[ecmst12]

It was, because the northern army said it was. The argument is pointless.

 

[Just Blue]

It was, because the northern army said it was. The argument is pointless.

Historically speaking. The winner of the war is always "correct""



BTW ECMS...My rollyeyes was directed at history not you.

 

[tranquility]

Lincoln clearly made things up to save the union. There is no possible way to square the actions taken by him and the Constitution. Yet, here we are.

Now, let's discuss the notion of a right to privacy in the penumbras of the Constitution in order to get to a more modern problem that is irrelevant to arguing the Constitution according to the text or the intent of the founders.

 

[Mnemosyne]

Perhaps you should read my edit and not be rude.

I checked out your "source". I don't find his support for that figure to be credible or persuasive. Says he:

Thats derived from the number Congress worked out in 1866, Former SC judge sharkey gave to congress that 30% of all *****s were dead in Miss, in evidence when he and 5 other former USSC judges were sent south to find out if the south could feed irtself post war.
you can double check it from 1860 and 1870 cenusus data, start from 180k known fatalities, apply the 20% annual decade increase the ***** population increased by, compare to census data, and find that 3 millions of *****s are unacounted for, using not only lives lost but lives expected to be born and not,( nsame methodolgy as used to work our Shoah loss of life) Judge sharkey went to Miss who had a 23% increase average pre war, and a 0.1% increase in ***** population between 1860 and 1870. the highest loss of ***** lives, over 80% of the total, occur in the states of LA, Miss and Ga, which was where sherman and others of his kind waged war on civilians and the land itself.
You can read about in such books as A Constitional history of secesion, and war crimes against Southern civilans.

While you're googling, take a look at 1860 and 1870 census data for the Union and border states, and take note of the percentage increase of adult blacks living in those regions, particularly in major urban areas. The vast majority of your "unaccounted for" blacks didn't die. They moved north.

 

[Proseguru]

. Secession nowadays is illegal.

Not for Texas on its own. And I think others could leave with permission of 3/4 of the other states ...

I would not mind cutting some states loose....

 

[Cannae]

While you're googling, take a look at 1860 and 1870 census data for the Union and border states, and take note of the percentage increase of adult blacks living in those regions, particularly in major urban areas. The vast majority of your "unaccounted for" blacks didn't die. They moved north.

Now, let's discuss the notion of a right to privacy in the penumbras of the Constitution in order to get to a more modern problem that is irrelevant to arguing the Constitution according to the text or the intent of the founders.

Ok.

Not for Texas on its own.

Based on Texas v. White, but wasn't that overruled in Morgan v. United States, 113 U.S. 476 (1885)?