Cemetery is refusing to honor my Cemetery Deed dimensions

[quincy]

… If the cemetery is able to use their 11-1/2" wide rather than my 14-1/2' wide, they would be able to bury people inside my plot. …

What exactly is the concern? Is there still room? Over the years, besides nefarious reasons, cemeteries screwed up in placing and creating plots plenty of times. The first thing done in preparation to bury my dad was to probe the area with thin metal poles to make sure it was clear.

What exactly does the OP wish to be done

The concern probably has something to do with what I have bolded above, which seems a reasonable concern.

 

[Foamback]

The concern probably has something to do with what I have bolded above, which seems a reasonable concern.

I see the difference in area and scalars, and how it could affect the cemetery. Or maybe it has no real effect on the cemetery.

My question is how does a possibly 60 year old error truly affect the burial of dear old dad? His coffin and vault will fit no matter what. Exempting the installation of a statue or large above ground crypt, I don’t see how the family is damaged in real terms. This seems like a matter of being pissed off for the sake of being pissed off.

 

[quincy]

I see the difference in area and scalars, and how it could affect the cemetery. Or maybe it has no real effect on the cemetery.

My question is how does a possibly 60 year old error truly affect the burial of dear old dad? His coffin and vault will fit no matter what. Exempting the installation of a statue or large above ground crypt, I don’t see how the family is damaged in real terms. This seems like a matter of being pissed off for the sake of being pissed off.

Rooty’s family paid for a certain size plot and the cemetery apparently is “robbing” the family of a portion of that plot.

If you buy a house and you discover that the owner has decided to take the kitchen, you probably would be pissed.

 

[Foamback]

My question remains.

What exactly does the OP wish to be done

The OP stated his dims matched the contractural description. So the question becomes why the discrepancy? In a cemetery dating to 1852 are there any monuments internal to the cemetery that a surveyor could even come up plot locations without the OP spending tons of money?

But I’ll reiterate, what does the OP need to put this issue to bed? My math indicates that the area as per the cemetery is 85% of that the OP claims. Does he want a check for that 15%? That would probably be based on the selling price at time of purchase.

 

[quincy]

My question remains.


The OP stated his dims matched the contractural description. So the question becomes why the discrepancy? In a cemetery dating to 1852 are there any monuments internal to the cemetery that a surveyor could even come up plot locations without the OP spending tons of money?

But I’ll reiterate, what does the OP need to put this issue to bed? My math indicates that the area as per the cemetery is 85% of that the OP claims. Does he want a check for that 15%? That would probably be based on the selling price at time of purchase.

Rooty said he wants the cemetery to recognize the dimensions of his family plot as noted in his deed rather than the cemetery relying on erroneous dimensions currently noted. It is the cemetery’s responsibility to have all of the plots accurately mapped and recorded and it should be the cemetery’s responsibility to survey the plots if a discrepancy is discovered.

Rooty appears to want what his family has paid for (and probably has paid to maintain) - and that is not an unreasonable thing to want. And it is better to get the matter resolved now before the cemetery moves an unrelated body into the family plot.

 

[Foamback]

But getting the plot as per the larger dimensions may not be possible if the adjacent plots are occupied. The plot they have is the plot they are going to have.

In my state Washington, a plot is bought with included maintenance in perpetuity. I’m going to guess that applies to California also. So then the only relief they could see is some minor adjustment based on the original sale price, assuming there is not a statutory timing out of claims of this nature.

This is a 170 year old cemetery.

 

[adjusterjack]

But getting the plot as per the larger dimensions may not be possible if the adjacent plots are occupied.

Then the cemetery is in breach of contract.. If you know anything about contract law you would know that the buyer is entitled to exactly what he bought and he can seek a remedy in court if the seller withholds it.

It seems clear that the cemetery is playing games with the dimensions and hoping that the deed holder won't want to spend thousands on litigating 40 or so sq ft and will just give up.

 

[Foamback]

This is the result of accumulated errors in layout, description and record keeping since 1852. The cemetery says the plot as described doesn’t exist, that the actual plot is somewhat different, and the OP claims the physical plot somehow does fit the original description based on measurement points unknown to us.

My point is how does the OP want this settled?

 

[quincy]

This is the result of accumulated errors in layout, description and record keeping since 1852. The cemetery says the plot as described doesn’t exist, that the actual plot is somewhat different, and the OP claims the physical plot somehow does fit the original description based on measurement points unknown to us.

My point is how does the OP want this settled?

Your first statement is an assumption that is not based on anything we know. That the current cemetery management cannot find records or an old cemetery map does not make the dimensions they are claiming correct dimensions, especially since the deed clearly shows the dimensions are incorrect.

Rooty wants a survey. He has said that. What he doesn’t want is the need to pay for the survey himself.

It is the cemetery that is responsible for having an accurate plot map with accurate plot dimensions. The plot owners have a right to expect that what they paid for is what they get.

 

[Zigner]

I see the difference in area and scalars, and how it could affect the cemetery. Or maybe it has no real effect on the cemetery.

My question is how does a possibly 60 year old error truly affect the burial of dear old dad? His coffin and vault will fit no matter what. Exempting the installation of a statue or large above ground crypt, I don’t see how the family is damaged in real terms. This seems like a matter of being pissed off for the sake of being pissed off.

A cemetery plot is the owner's property. How would you feel if someone came to your home and said "sorry, we're going to take just over 12% of your property because, hey, what do you need it for?"

 

[quincy]

The cemetery might be relying on the fact that many burial plots go unused, for various reasons. The family may have forgotten they have a prepaid place to be buried or, often, family member plot owners have established themselves in other geographic areas and prefer to be buried near where they currently live.

As I said earlier, I ran across a Michigan township ordinance that actually freed up previously purchased burial plots if someone didn’t die within 40 years of purchase. I assume that the township’s assumption was that some plots would never be used so it was silly to leave the plot empty when someone else was dying to get into it.

 

[cbg]

I saw what you did there...

 

[Foamback]

Discrepancies between written property descriptions and monuments of all sorts is an ancient issue with not one simple answer.

It would seem that the OP would get a survey and sue the cemetery for its cost

 

[quincy]

Discrepancies between written property descriptions and monuments of all sorts is an ancient issue with not one simple answer.

It would seem that the OP would get a survey and sue the cemetery for its cost

Or convince the cemetery to live up to its legal contractual obligations to plot owners and order a survey on their own, in order to correct their records and avoid a lawsuit.

Media attention in Michigan to the nefarious actions of a cemetery led to changes, and charges.

 

[Rooty1]

Or convince the cemetery to live up to its legal contractual obligations to plot owners and order a survey on their own, in order to correct their records and avoid a lawsuit.

Media attention in Michigan to the nefarious actions of a cemetery led to changes, and charges.

Hi Quincy, finally heard back from the California Cemetery & Funeral Bureau regarding my complaint submitted to them 8-months ago.

Their letter states, "There is insufficient evidence to support a violation of the Bureau's laws, rules, or regulations governing the operation of a cemetery in the State of California." My complaint has been closed.

Good grief! Any suggestions as to how I should proceed?

And, to Zigner:

You wrote, "My question is how does a possibly 60 year old error truly affect the burial of dear old dad? His coffin and vault will fit no matter what. Exempting the installation of a statue or large above ground crypt, I don’t see how the family is damaged in real terms. This seems like a matter of being pissed off for the sake of being pissed off."

Not true, I have a good many immediate and extended family members who would also like to be buried inside our lot. Why should the cemetery be able to sell plots located inside the lot my family owns?