Child Support and Jurisdiction

[squatch93]

What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state? I currently live in SC (and resident of SC), was divorced in IL, my ex-wife is taking me to court in AL (where she lives). We were married in AL, we were both residents of AL (she still is). I changed my residence to FL about the time we were married. My daughter was conceived in Germany.

Ex-wife is taking me to court to increase child support amount (subsequently this would also extend the number of years I pay - different state law). A judge in AL has decided AL has jurisdiction over me, I disagree. I have requested my attorney to challenge the Judges order (per UFISA *sp?), that I would be under the jurisdiction of SC. In the meantime for the hearing to challenge the Judges order my attorney says I still need to submit my income information.

My question:
Since I have instructed my attorney in AL to challenge the Judges decision do I have to submit my income information or should I wait until the hearing to challenge the decision? My attorney says that I have to provide the information, regardless of the challenge. I question her because she did not point out that under AL law I meet NONE of the qualifications that would allow AL to have jurisdiction over me. I am the one that pointed this out. I found this out through forums like this.

Knowledgeable information greatly appreciated.

Thank you,

Bill

 

[Shay-Pari'e]

What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state? I currently live in SC (and resident of SC), was divorced in IL, my ex-wife is taking me to court in AL (where she lives). We were married in AL, we were both residents of AL (she still is). I changed my residence to FL about the time we were married. My daughter was conceived in Germany.

Ex-wife is taking me to court to increase child support amount (subsequently this would also extend the number of years I pay - different state law).Your child support cannot be extended due to a "Different Law" What law?

A AL has decided AL has jurisdiction over me, I disagree. I have requested my attorney to challenge the Judges order (per UFISA *sp?), that I would be under the jurisdiction of SC. In the meantime for the hearing to challenge the Judges order my attorney says I still need to submit my income information.

My question:
Since I have instructed my attorney in AL to challenge the Judges decision do I have to submit my income information or should I wait until the hearing to challenge the decision? My attorney says that I have to provide the information, regardless of the challenge. I question her because she did not point out that under AL law I meet NONE of the qualifications that would allow AL to have jurisdiction over me. I am the one that pointed this out. I found this out through forums like this.

Knowledgeable information greatly appreciated.

Thank you,



Bill

The Alabama courts have ruled that they have subject matter and jurisdiction over this matter. I am curious as to why you think because you now live in SC this should be challenged? Was your child born in SC? Did your X live in SC? You became a resident of SC after the fact.

Go ahead and challenge it, you have an attorney.

Your main concern was being ordered to submit your income. This is standard procedure.

Good luck challenging the jurisdiction of the courts, you are going to need it.

 

[BL]

I agree , Why would you think AL wouldn't have Jurisdiction if you are the one paying Child Support.

Your divorce was in a totally separate State which neither of you reside.

The State that would have Jurisdiction would be the State Where the Parent and Children reside .

 

[kat1963]

Why would this extend the number of years? The duration of support is one section that is not modifiable from the state of ORIGINAL jurisdiction. Since you were divorced (w/child support ordered) in IL, support ends at 18 (though the courts could make provisions for college..Actually all 3 states you are referring to do).
Since you were married in Al however, I do believe that is one factor taken into consideration when awarding jurisdiction. Now, I could be wrong, but I do not think so. Had you not married there, had relations with her in the state, had a child conceived or born in that state you'd be off the hook. They are claiming previous jurisdiction in other words. Had you not done so, then yes, it would be heard in SC (to prevent CP’s from support shopping).
If your lawyer says turn over the financials then personally I would do so as she's going to get them sooner or later. I know, it sucks. Also note that the judge could order retroactive child support from the day she filed the papers. That’s a lot of potential arrears building up. If you have doubts about your lawyer’s ability on interstate laws, find another one…but each delay could be costing you $$ in both CS interest & of course legal fees. How many more years do you still have to pay? It might be worth figuring out if it’s really even worth it in the long run.
Have you worked up the guidelines for both states support amounts? They are both income shares with AL being just slightly higher.
KAT

 

[no$$4us]

jurisdiction

Here is are some thought because I also have multiple states involved.
Al does have jurisdiction---BUT if she is asking for a modification the UIFSA law says that the order should be moved to SC and judged by SC standards and guidelines because that is where it can be enforced.
If she asks for modification it goes to your home state and if you ask for modification it goes to her home state.
You need to ask for a motion to transfer foreign order AND DO IT THROUGH ATTORNEY so it works.
My ex did that. He claimed he wanted to modify the case and so it went from FL to NC. We were divorced in FL. The case was never modified but here is sits. I was trying to modify it and I will do it again after we are through with some preliminary motions. When I do CS in NC wants it registered in DE where my ex lives to enforce it.

 

[BL]

Here is a site that might help .

http://ocse.acf.dhhs.gov/necsrspub/training/uifsaweb/HHSUI.html

 

[Shay-Pari'e]

Here is are some thought because I also have multiple states involved.
Al does have jurisdiction---BUT if she is asking for a modification the UIFSA law says that the order should be moved to SC and judged by SC standards and guidelines because that is where it can be enforced.
If she asks for modification it goes to your home state and if you ask for modification it goes to her home state.This is NOT correct.

 

[squatch93]

No, my question is:

My question:
Since I have instructed my attorney in AL to challenge the Judges decision do I have to submit my income information now or should I wait until after my hearing to challenge the decision? My attorney says that I have to provide the information, regardless of the challenge. I question her because she did not point out that under AL law I meet NONE of the qualifications that would allow AL to have jurisdiction over me. I am the one that pointed this out. I found this out through forums like this.

Why would I "need" to submit my income information until I have had my day in court to challenge the judges decision? If after that hearing I decide to not continue to challenge the court or take it to a higher court it would then make sense if I lose and am forced then to surrender my information. It makes no logical sense to give it over now, while this matter is under review.

Per UIFSA, I meet NONE of the requirements for long arm jurisdiction.

Thank you all for the information yall have provided.

Bill

 

[BL]

Why would you have to ?

Because that's the procedure in Law . You are really making too much of this issue of submitting income . It's part of procedures.

Then the time to challenge it is in motions and arguments to the Court.

If you are NOT satisfied with that Judges decision then you take it to the Next level.

This comes from the site I posted:

. If there is only one order but none of the individuals in the case resides in the State that issued it , then the order is controlling ,but the issuing State does not have CEJ.

To modify the order,it must be registered for modification in the other Party's State.

The exception is if both obligee and obligor live in the same State,then that State is controlling.

 

[Whyte Noise]

The following is from the UIFSA. My comments are in bold.

SECTION 201. BASES FOR JURISDICTION OVER NONRESIDENT.

(a) In a proceeding to establish, or enforce, or modify a support order or to determine parentage, a tribunal of this State may exercise personal jurisdiction over a nonresident individual [or the individual's guardian or conservator] if:

(1) the individual is personally served with [citation, summons, notice] within this State; Since you're in SC, I'm assuming this one doesn't apply to you

(2) the individual submits to the jurisdiction of this State by consent in a record, by entering a general appearance, or by filing a responsive document having the effect of waiving any contest to personal jurisdiction; Only you know if you've done this one or not, see my last comment at the end

(3) the individual resided with the child in this State; Did you do this?

(4) the individual resided in this State and provided prenatal expenses or support for the child; Did you do this one?

(5) the child resides in this State as a result of the acts or directives of the individual; How about this one?

(6) the individual engaged in sexual intercourse in this State and the child may have been conceived by that act of intercourse; Since you say she was conceived in germany, I"m assuming this one doesn't apply. But are you SURE about the Germany part? [or]

(7) [the individual asserted parentage in the [putative father registry] maintained in this State by the [appropriate agency]; Did you do this? or

(8)] there is any other basis consistent with the constitutions of this State and the United States for the exercise of personal jurisdiction. I haven't read the Alabama laws, so you'd have tor esearch this one yourself

(b) The bases of personal jurisdiction set forth in subsection (a) or in any other law of this State may not be used to acquire personal jurisdiction for a tribunal of the State to modify a child support order of another State unless the requirements of Section 611 or 615 are met.

***Now, Section 615 wouldn't apply to your situation as that pertains to modifying orders of a foreign COUNTRY or POLITICAL SUBDIVISION (Such as Guam, etc.). Your order was issued in Illinois, which isn't a foreign country or a subdivision thereof, but a state in this country. So, Section 611 becomes the controlling factor for you.

SECTION 611. MODIFICATION OF CHILD-SUPPORT ORDER OF ANOTHER STATE.

(a) After If Section 613 does not apply, except as otherwise provided in Section 615, upon [petition] a tribunal of this State may modify a child-support order issued in another State has been which is registered in this State, the responding tribunal of this State may modify that order only if Section 613 does not apply and if, after notice and hearing it, the tribunal finds that: **Section 613 doesn't apply to your situation, as that pertains to when ALL parties reside in one state, and you don't. She's in AL, you're in SC.

(1) the following requirements are met:

(A) neither the child, nor the individual obligee who is an individual, nor the obligor do not reside in the issuing State; This burden is met. None of you live in Illinois (the issuing state) any longer

(B) a [petitioner] who is a nonresident of this State seeks modification; This one doesn't apply as SHE is the petitioner and lives in the state and

(C) the [respondent] is subject to the personal jurisdiction of the tribunal of this State; See above or The word OR might get ya here

(2) this State is the State of residence of the child, It is in your caseor a party who is an individual is subject to the personal jurisdiction of the tribunal of this State, and all of the parties who are individuals have filed a written consents in a record in the issuing tribunal for a tribunal of this State to modify the support order and assume continuing, exclusive jurisdiction.

(b) Modification of a registered child-support order is subject to the same requirements, procedures, and defenses that apply to the modification of an order issued by a tribunal of this State and the order may be enforced and satisfied in the same manner.

(c) A Except as otherwise provided in Section 615, a tribunal of this State may not modify any aspect of a child-support order that may not be modified under the law of the issuing State, including the duration of the obligation of support. If two or more tribunals have issued child-support orders for the same obligor and same child, the order that controls and must be so recognized under Section 207 establishes the aspects of the support order which are nonmodifiable.

In a proceeding to modify a child-support order, the law of the State that is determined to have issued the initial controlling order governs the duration of the obligation of support. The obligor's fulfillment of the duty of support established by that order precludes imposition of a further obligation of support by a tribunal of this State. This is very important to you... re-read what's in italics

(e) On the issuance of an order by a tribunal of this State modifying a child-support order issued in another State, a the tribunal of this State becomes the tribunal having continuing, exclusive jurisdiction.


Basically, in a nutshell.... Alabama "may" have jurisdiction to modify the current Illinois order, HOWEVER, they have to use Illinois guidelines to modify. For example... if CS goes to 18 in IL, and 21 in AL then AL has to follow IL guidelines and end support at 18... not continue it until 21 like AL law allows for. Likewise, if support goes until 21 in IL and ony 18 in AL, the AL court can't modify the support to terminate at 18 like it does under their laws. The same thing goes if the original order is modified in SC. SC would have to use IL guidelines to modify the order, they can't use SC guidelines.

My question is this though.... Did you, AT ANY TIME, answer an Alabama petition? Like, when the petition to first modify this order was served on you? If you did... did you immediately contest jurisdiction in AL? If you did not do that, and just answered the petition with the "standard" response, then you may have unwittingly submitted yourself to Albama's jurisdiction.

Honestly, since your objection raised in your first post was "Ex-wife is taking me to court to increase child support amount (subsequently this would also extend the number of years I pay - different state law)", is a moot point under UISFA, why wouldn't you want the support modified in AL? I've shown you the law which says the issuing state's laws are controlling in a modification... so you wouldn't be paying "longer" if it was modified in either AL or SC.

 

[Shay-Pari'e]

I think we all may be missing one very important point. AL *HAS* decided they have jurisdiction. All states are out of the loop. AL will now use AL guidelines to modify all aspects of the issuing order. Child support guidelines of AL (Where mother and child reside, and are now under AL jurisdiction) now apply.

Instead of using his money for his child, he would rather fork out money for an attorney to challenge it. His only *BEEF* as it obviously stands, is his not wanting to submit his income.

What a waste of money, time, and effort.........that could be spent on and with his child.

IMO

 

[squatch93]

Move away from the tree... to see the forest.

To all:

Thank you for your intelligent and helpful posts. I really appreciate your time and effort in helping me more clearly understand these laws.

To PARADISE:
You have no idea of the crap my ex-wife has caused me, my family and children. The damage she and her next seven husbans have inflicted on the relationship with me and my kids. Yet she got custody, and now wants more of my money. I will spend all my money on attorneys before my hard work, education, effort and good fortune buys her another car or anything else. Do not judge what you do not know.

 

[Shay-Pari'e]

To all:

Thank you for your intelligent and helpful posts. I really appreciate your time and effort in helping me more clearly understand these laws.

To PARADISE:
You have no idea of the crap my ex-wife has caused me, my family and children. The damage she and her next seven husbans have inflicted on the relationship with me and my kids. Yet she got custody, and now wants more of my money. I will spend all my money on attorneys before my hard work, education, effort and good fortune buys her another car or anything else. Do not judge what you do not know.

I judged what you brought to this forum. Make sure you spend all your money in the AL courts, they have jurisdiction.

 

[BlondeIntel]

I will spend all my money on attorneys before my hard work, education, effort and good fortune buys her another car or anything else. Do not judge what you do not know.

Try to focus on the example that you are setting for your children. When you try to keep your ex from enjoying any benefit of your good fortune, are they going to understand why?

 

[Whyte Noise]

I think we all may be missing one very important point. AL *HAS* decided they have jurisdiction. All states are out of the loop. AL will now use AL guidelines to modify all aspects of the issuing order. Child support guidelines of AL (Where mother and child reside, and are now under AL jurisdiction) now apply.

Instead of using his money for his child, he would rather fork out money for an attorney to challenge it. His only *BEEF* as it obviously stands, is his not wanting to submit his income.

What a waste of money, time, and effort.........that could be spent on and with his child.

IMO

Alabama can NOT use AL guidelines to modify an order from an existing state.

AL "can" modify the order, yes. But they have to use the issuing states guidelines. In this case, Illinois guidelenes would be used. That is the LAW.

The only way that can EVER change, is if all parties agree to allow AL's guidelines to be used.

Read the pertinant part of UIFSA above which states:

(c) A Except as otherwise provided in Section 615, a tribunal of this State may not modify any aspect of a child-support order that may not be modified under the law of the issuing State, including the duration of the obligation of support.

My CS order that was issued in GA was modified by a MO court... but they had to use the GA guidelines to do it. MO had jurisdiction (just like AL possible does here) to modify the order, but the guidelines from the ISSUING STATE have to be used in that modification.