child's activities while with NCP

[helenewyork]

What is the name of your state? NY

If no supervision for visitation has been ordered and the NCP is deemed fully and responsibly able to care for a child during visitation, can the CP deny visitation based on normally safe activities (that children of the same age group routinely participate in)? For instance going to the ocean, camping, riding a rollercoaster, etc. Assuming that the NCP is extremely concientious about safety and the childs' individual preferences and needs does the CP have the right to be notified of any and all normal, common (or exciting and fun but safe!) activities that might be enjoyed during visitation?

I ask the question due to CP interference. When all the obstacles regarding visitation scheduling have been used (and it is always lengthy and exhaustive finally falling short of legal interference) the CP then start in with demands concerning control over what the child will be doing, in minute detail because the CP must give approval before the child may go on visitation. Notwithstanding that the child has a long and incident-free history of healthy, positive, safe visitation with the NCP.

Just wondering how much a power a controller has that can be skewed as "justified" but is clearly manipulation. It appears that obsessive control knows no bounds.

 

[Chelle0511]

~When a child is in the care of a CP it is THIER decision on activities etc. The CP has no say, as long as everything is safe and moral. You obviously have a control freak on your hands. My advise, tell the CP that it is none of her business and that he/she is just as much a parent as the other, and be on your way. If she refuses scheduled visitation file a report and take her to court. Request that the judge hold her in contempt and eventually she will do as told or face fines and/or jail time! Good Luck!

 

[SMURFEELAW]

NO. A CP cannot dictate what an NCP does with the child on the NCP's time. Unles specifically ordered by the Court ex/ if the Court Order says no taking the child out of state then neither parent can take the child out of state w/o meeting the requirements set forth in the order.

But your problem is proof. Check if NY is a two party state for recordings if not then record the CP. If it is then write a registered letter informing CP that the demands are not within her rights and they won't be answered if Cp withholds visits you file for contempt and that you will be recording all future conversation and have the recorder out and obvious (whether you can use it in Court or not is another question but it may make the CP re-think this approach) then inform CP of an existing cell phone number where the child can be reached during normal hours and enjoy the visitation. Good Luck CP sounds controlling and a little jealous the NCP can take the kids for fun things.

 

[jslopez711]

If you have a court order that outlines when you should have your child and she denies you what is outlined then she could be found in contempt of court if you file.

What is on the order is so......Document and or take someone with you (not your spouse) to pick-up's. If she deny's you then you have someone that saw it.

No, she can not tell you what you can and can not do with YOUR child unless it is specified in the CO.

 

[helenewyork]

STATE: ny

thanks for the replies. Unfortunately and unbelievably, concerning visitatioin the order says "as agreed upon by the parents". Translation: CP decides what happens. IF not to his benefit it doesn't happen. As I said, though, he will refuse, refuse, refuse, manipulate, complicate, change and contradict and finally concede so its all legal.

Case in point (sort of): NCP (me, obviously) had children prior to the beginning of the school year last year and was asked to get the children haircuts and school clothes and supplies. Ok. Have so little money I got the kids a bunch of new clothes from consignment (high-end labels, some items never worn--all cleaned and checked over for missing buttons, etc. there werent' any---CP has bought clothing and other items at yard sales and the like as well). I have always cut the children's hair... I am good at it and they like the results. The CP hearing that I would trim the children's hair rather than take them to a full salon and get them high quality consignment clothing items for school (and some brand new things, shoes never 2nd hand) I was awarded with the response that it would be a LONG time before I saw them again. Incidentally, CPs girlfriend used to be a hairstylist and cuts the children's hair often.

I used to have primary custody---I lost everything in the divorce. It is a trajedy that I find remarkable and I am continually trying to find positive solutions.

 

[Chelle0511]

STATE: ny

thanks for the replies. Unfortunately and unbelievably, concerning visitatioin the order says "as agreed upon by the parents". Translation: CP decides what happens. IF not to his benefit it doesn't happen. As I said, though, he will refuse, refuse, refuse, manipulate, complicate, change and contradict and finally concede so its all legal.

Case in point (sort of): NCP (me, obviously) had children prior to the beginning of the school year last year and was asked to get the children haircuts and school clothes and supplies. Ok. Have so little money I got the kids a bunch of new clothes from consignment (high-end labels, some items never worn--all cleaned and checked over for missing buttons, etc. there werent' any---CP has bought clothing and other items at yard sales and the like as well). I have always cut the children's hair... I am good at it and they like the results. The CP hearing that I would trim the children's hair rather than take them to a full salon and get them high quality consignment clothing items for school (and some brand new things, shoes never 2nd hand) I was awarded with the response that it would be a LONG time before I saw them again. Incidentally, CPs girlfriend used to be a hairstylist and cuts the children's hair often.

I used to have primary custody---I lost everything in the divorce. It is a trajedy that I find remarkable and I am continually trying to find positive solutions.

So, why don't you file a petition to modify the current order? Even better, file contempt a time or two for visitation interference and then use those incidents as the reason for modification. You should at least be left choosing your agenda with the kids and possibly custody

 

[helenewyork]

STATE: NY

I do document everything and always have. Had a restraining order at one point. Contact is through email, rarely by phone because CP will do the complete opposite of anything agreed to by phone.

He has changed to a more expensive daycare without my knowledge or consent (and I was responsible to pay half).

He hired a nanny and I was forbidden to have her phone number, address or speak to her (if I did, he would lose her and I would be responsible for him losing his job and life would be made harder for everyone).

He has offered to lend me a car while I am in his area and even stay at his house (and even live with them when he and girlfriend are on the outs) and then a few days later when I bring the children to CPs house and girlfriend (who I have never spoken to which I find odd) happened to be there--I took the kids up the back steps and stood just inside the door. Afterwards I was screamed at for entering the house without permission and for upsetting the girlfriend. I thought it would have been more upsetting not to get out of their way. Only one day prior I went to CPs house to discuss visitation and he insisted that I eat the lunch he made and offered his shower (I was moving storage items). His personal offers I find very inappropriate but it is hard if not complying makes the kids lives more stressful.

Oh, CP also sent memos to the schools and doctors stating I was forbidden to pick the kids up from sschool or take to the doctor without his written approval. This from an incident where I picked the child up rather than meet her school bus--CP claimed to not know where the child was, even though we had been talking to him via cellphone and he had agreed to my picking up beforehand.

My children are forbidden to call me because of long distance charges so I got a phone number that is a local call for them even though it is logistically a toll call. When I call the children I am told to call back "during a commercial" but I don't know how I'm supposed to figure out when that miight be.

I have reams of documentation of threats to refuse information, horrific accusations, etc.

Oh, I was told I had to pay for half of the braces for child. I said I would be happy to discuss the possibiliyt of braces and come to a joint decision and asked the CP to send me the info from the orhtodontist and insurance if applicable and then set up a time to discuss the matter appropriately. I was rewarded with a slew of vicious names and full out refusal to give me any information about anything.

There are much worse problems, so many that it is a full time job dealing with it. If there is conflict, CP nourishes it. If there is no conflic, he creates it. I am NOT kidding. I have proof but without being punched (CP did throw a car seat at me -- I didnt' report it because he was already threatening to make the kids lives more difficult and keep them from me -- or conversely -- no abide to his visitation (whew...).

CP is incapable of communication without personal attack (verbal). The cumulative effect is extremely destructive. If I minimize contact I am blamed for not being involved. If I maintain contact I am constantly thwarted, demeaned, insulted, lied to and denied normal parenting communication. And much, much worse.

But I try to rise above all that. My priority is being with my kids. I cannot spend my life focused on this person. It is so hard sometimes to "be the better person" when it is usuallly invisible and makes CP look even more the hero when he is just the opposite. I dont want to win,... or lose. When parents fight the children lose. Period. But I know that he will never stop and that it doesnt matter what the issue is--ever. It has nothing to do with that. Its purely control. Sorry, got a little whiny.

thanks again for the constructive and supportive feedback ... much appreciated!!!!

 

[Rushia]

I'm in NY too. Unfortunetly, visitation upon agreement around this area doesn't do much good. What you need to do is go to court and modify your agreement to specific times. The up side of this is that you know when you will have your children and he cannot legally tell you no. If he does you can hang him for contempt. Take all of your records with you when you get your hearing. The judge will not be happy with the fact that he denies you visitation based on the fact of what you may do with them. CP's cannot dictate what you do with the children on your time. As for the schooling..Do you have joint legal? If you do you may be able to fight him on the cost as it was not something that you agreed to. The same question applies to picking the kids up from school and the Dr. info. If you have joint legal then he CANNOT forbid you to pick the kids up from school, nor can he deny you the Dr. info. Schools in NY have specific forms for you to fill out that the CP has to provide specific court orders denying you the right to do that (unless of course, it's daycare, then it's an iffy thing).

 

[Chelle0511]

~Lady, I have to ask: what was the judges reason for ruling that the best interest of the children would be to reside with their father?? Why are you dealing with this? Why don't you hire an attorney and fight this crazed man? You do have rights you know

 

[SITLYNNE]

Helenenyouk,
I'm positive that your ex is the same man as my ex. Just kidding. Although, everything you stated is exactly the same as my situation. I live in PA and my order also states my, NCP, shall have liberal visitation as decided upon by CP from time to time. They got me on this one. After 9 months of not seeing my 2 sons, who I previously had joint custody of for 5 years, (bribed by dad to live with him) I am now taking dad back to court for modification, on my own, no attorney, not worth the money that I don't have anyway. I have been given some really good information on this forum, also have been bashed many times. Keep you chin up and good luck.