childs rights to refuse?

[djohnson]

Hi Sweetie,
I totally understand how you feel. As long as your mom does her best to have you AVAILABLE for visitation on the days specified, she is NOT required to FORCE you to go, and will NOT be held in contempt. It is highly unlikely that you will be forced to go, if you should refuse. Although legally you are a minor and required to go, you are 16, and the court would rather avoid your becoming a runaway--which at 16, presumably with a drivers license and cash, as you have a job, you can easily do.
If your mom has you AVAILABLE but you REFUSE to go, he is welcome to come get you. But may NOT physically force you into a car or plane, as that is assult and battery. Your mother is NOT required to physically force you into going.
Basically, although the law says you must go, and he might say you have to go, it is really in your hands and up to you.
Good luck!

Oh my gosh, I am astounded you are advising this child to break the law, run away, and and have her mother found in contempt. There is nothing in this post legal. If father doesn't press it, then nothing may happen, but if he does everything we have said is true. Do not believe this person. He doesn't have to physically put you in the car. He can call the cops and show them his court order and they will force you.

DO NOT tell this child this crap!!

 

[casa]

Hi Sweetie,
I totally understand how you feel. As long as your mom does her best to have you AVAILABLE for visitation on the days specified, she is NOT required to FORCE you to go, and will NOT be held in contempt. It is highly unlikely that you will be forced to go, if you should refuse. Although legally you are a minor and required to go, you are 16, and the court would rather avoid your becoming a runaway--which at 16, presumably with a drivers license and cash, as you have a job, you can easily do.
If your mom has you AVAILABLE but you REFUSE to go, he is welcome to come get you. But may NOT physically force you into a car or plane, as that is assult and battery. Your mother is NOT required to physically force you into going.
Basically, although the law says you must go, and he might say you have to go, it is really in your hands and up to you.
Good luck!

You are off your rocker! What kind of legal advice is that? You are bringing up the issue of running away- who said the OP was running away?

No one need physically force the minor- The mother tells the minor she's going per court order and that is that! If the mother does not do that- she faces winding up in court for contempt. A judge is not amused by a teenager calling the shots and deciding to disobey their parents...that's what a judge will be seeing.

IF the child wants to end visits, the CP (Mother in this case) needs to petition the court, ask that the child's wishes be heard and hope the reasons are valid- then hope the judge agrees. PERIOD.

 

[guest123]

"
Generally the rule in many states with regard to a 16 year old is that
you are not in contempt of court for not FORCING a child of that age
from carrying out visitation that he or she (the child) is dead set
against. However, you will be in contempt of court if you, yourself, either
interfere with the visitation, try to convince the child not to go, or
even fail to actively encourage the child to go. Thus, your job is to
try to talk the child into going, to make the child available for
visitation when the order states, and in general to try to encourage
visitation, but not to drag the child, kicking and screaming, to go to
visitation. Two caveats: one, this rule only applies to older teenagers (so it
may not apply as strongly to your 12 year old), and two, this is a VERY
GENERAL statement of the majority rule of law, and is not necessarily
what all judges in all states will do. However, I would think you'd have
at least some defense to a contempt motion, at least with regard to the
16 year old, if you can say you did everything short of holding a gun
to his/her head to tell him/her to go, and the child simply and utterly
refuses. It would be even a better defense to a contempt motion if the
child got up on the stand and testified that you told him/her to go,
that you did not interfere and encouraged the child to go, and it was the
child's own independent decision not to visit."

http://www.dadsdivorce.com/ask/details.php?askID=96436&keywords=


Your mom just needs to say " I think it would be best if you go." And then let you do what you need to do. Supporting you, and your decision, is also ok for your mom to do. That you have mature and reasonable reasons for not going, i.e. working, even just saying you want to spend more time with your friends, is worth much weight to the judge. Saying something like, because my mom lets me smoke pot, is not. Just be calm and reasonable. No policeman will force you into a squad car and take you for visitation. As long as your mom "supports" visitation, she does NOT have to force it.
You are going to be ok.
Again, best of luck. Don't let your father bully you by threatening with arresting your mom, if you do not comply with his wants. That is abuse. Sounds like he probably threatened her with your well-being at some point as well. Be calm. Be mature and sensible. NO ONE will force you.
Best of luck.

 

[guest123]

I also noticed that you said "for that amount of time." You case to your dad and to the judge--if it even comes to that--would be to say, "Gee I am working and cant take that much time off work." Then offer two compromises: 1) That HE take a month off work, and visit YOU, come to where YOU are, and wait around all day while you work (the way you would if you visited him. or 2) Say I might be able to get a week off. I still want to see you, but I have other things I have to do this summer as well. This would also show the courts, police, your dad's atty, that you are being reasonable, not throwing a hissy fit, and willing to see your dad, but that you are at an age where you cannot simply put your hard worked life on hold, for him, at his convinience.
It is going to be ok.
Please post and let me know what happens.

 

[stealth2]

That's not a legal citation - that's an opinion. Mom can be held in contempt for not forcing the child to go. If the kiddo refuses - Mom is the one who will pay the price. Potentially starting with a slap on the hand, but extending to fines, jail time and possible change of custody.

OP... How far away does Dad live? Have you talked to him about your concerns? The job I can see as a problem, but for XC, talk to your coach abotu getting the training schedule and working on your own at Dad's.

 

[BelizeBreeze]

Guest,
I STRONLY suggest you remove your posts in this forum before they (and your membership) are removed for you.

 

[guest123]

Unless the father is a complete idiot, even he could figure out that if the mother supported the child's wishes for reduced/skipped visitation, and the dad threw her in jail because of it, he MAY get visitation enforced for the next two years, but it would be highly doubtful that he would ever see his daughter again after that.
Turning 18 would be emanciapation from dad day. Is that really want he wants to do? Doubtful.

 

[LdiJ]

Normally I avoid giving much advice to teenagers....but after what I have seen here I HAVE to...

To the original poster: I sincerely understand. Like most teenagers you want...and maybe even need...a summer job. I understand that its almost impossible to get and retain one if you have to take a month off. You are also participating in a sport that apparently is significant to you...therefore I assume it may even have the possibility of leading to a college scholarship.

However the advice that you got about refusing to go isn't valid. It just isn't.
Yes, its possible that a judge might not hold your mother in contempt...but its also possible that your mother could face serious fines. I know of a case where a child your age was invited to attend a summer program at a university...that was GUARANTEED to lead to a serious college scholarship, and didn't go to summer visitation with dad as a result. Dad filed contempt against mom and mom was fined 5000.00 dollars! I have also known cases where judges wouldn't force a 16 year old to visit....but there is no guaranteed either way what might happen.

You really need to TALK to your father. You need to try as hard as possible to work things out with him. You do need to spend time with him but maybe if he understands your situation he will be flexible. Don't leave your mom to be the "bad guy" in all of this....if you want adult choices then take adult responsibilities too.

I understand and agree that this is an important time in your life...maybe even a critical one. However its also the last part of your childhood and the last part of the time when you are going to have the time to spend extended time with your father. So try to work out a compromise with him. Let him see you making adult choices for adult reasons.

 

[guest123]

Great advice Ldij. By all means she should try to talk to her dad. And by all means, he and she should try to work it out without threatening someone who is not party to this (the mother) with jail time or fines. But she seemed like a bright and mature young woman--I had assumed she had been trying to do so.

This is the last time she MIGHT be required to spend time with her dad, but it seems to me, that depending on his actions and choices now, whether she will see her dad for the next 40 years and what kind of relationship they have for the rest of her life, will be determined. If he fines, or threatens her mother, over HER choices, I still think that the chances of him knowing his grandkids are slim.

No one will FORCE her. That is extremely likely. I never suggested that she run away, simply that the courts recognize that a 16 year old has the means and ability to leave a situation she wishes not to be in. And they dont WANT to see her end up in juvie as a runaway, simply because the dad forced her to comply with visitation. The best the father can do is threaten the mother, who, it seems, is not a part of the discussion. This speaks to the father's relationship to the child over the last 16 years. That is, apparently there are communication problems that go back much farther. Any father who would purposefully give up their childs' ability to attend a college prep program, that guaranteed a spot in a good university, and fined the mom $5000 in the process, well, I don't call that a father, by any definition. Many courts wouldn't either. Some courts would take away his joint custody rights for having done that. But I suppose that is a possibility. And that father will have to live with the consequences of that decision for years well past those of forced visitation.

I am sorry, but whether or not we all agree, I simply do not understand this comment, nor the hostility of it:

"I STRONLY suggest you remove your posts in this forum before they (and your membership) are removed for you."

Wow.

 

[stealth2]

Great advice Ldij. By all means she should try to talk to her dad. And by all means, he and she should try to work it out without threatening someone who is not party to this (the mother) with jail time or fines. But she seemed like a bright and mature young woman--I had assumed she had been trying to do so.

Doofus - Mom IS a party to it by virtue of the court order.

 

[BelizeBreeze]

I am sorry, but whether or not we all agree, I simply do not understand this comment, nor the hostility of it:

This is a legal advice forum. You have advised this poster to place her mother in harm of going to jail, paying a hefty contempt fine and more.

The decision for your removal is now out of your hands.

Enjoy what time you have left.

 

[LdiJ]

Great advice Ldij. By all means she should try to talk to her dad. And by all means, he and she should try to work it out without threatening someone who is not party to this (the mother) with jail time or fines. But she seemed like a bright and mature young woman--I had assumed she had been trying to do so.

This is the last time she MIGHT be required to spend time with her dad, but it seems to me, that depending on his actions and choices now, whether she will see her dad for the next 40 years and what kind of relationship they have for the rest of her life, will be determined. If he fines, or threatens her mother, over HER choices, I still think that the chances of him knowing his grandkids are slim.

No one will FORCE her. That is extremely likely. I never suggested that she run away, simply that the courts recognize that a 16 year old has the means and ability to leave a situation she wishes not to be in. And they dont WANT to see her end up in juvie as a runaway, simply because the dad forced her to comply with visitation. The best the father can do is threaten the mother, who, it seems, is not a part of the discussion. This speaks to the father's relationship to the child over the last 16 years. That is, apparently there are communication problems that go back much farther. Any father who would purposefully give up their childs' ability to attend a college prep program, that guaranteed a spot in a good university, and fined the mom $5000 in the process, well, I don't call that a father, by any definition. Many courts wouldn't either. Some courts would take away his joint custody rights for having done that. But I suppose that is a possibility. And that father will have to live with the consequences of that decision for years well past those of forced visitation.

I am sorry, but whether or not we all agree, I simply do not understand this comment, nor the hostility of it:

"I STRONLY suggest you remove your posts in this forum before they (and your membership) are removed for you."

Wow.

The reason for that comment is that you have given advice to a MINOR....that is contrary to the law. Most of us avoid giving much advice to minors...and certainly not advice as controversial as yours. My last post was WAY more advice than I would ever normally give a minor.....and I did it only because I was scared of the possible reprecussions of the child following YOUR advice.

I don't necessarily disagree with the spirit of your message...I have given somewhat similar advice to ncps of teenagers....about being flexible...about the next 40 years etc......however I honestly believe that giving that kind of advice to a teenager is irresponsible.

 

[guest123]

Understood. And thanks for the clarification, without the name calling.

 

[Sadoxey]

Shocked!!!!

I am verry surprised to read that someone has told OP the police can and will physically force her to go on a visit if she refuses to go!!! Perhapse it depends on what state a person lives in. But I do know that in PA and NY poilce can not get involved in a coustody/visitation issue. They will come to the location if they are dispatched. But all they can do is advise the child that if he/she refuses to go that a report will be filed with the court. At that time the judge will schedual an evidedtary hearing to hear the issues and then make a ruleing. But in a case reguarding a 16 yr. old refuseing a visit it is almost unrealistic for a judge to find contempt on the mothers part and if he dose it would be unrealistic for a first time offence to be dissaplined in any way other than a warning.
OP- If you look arround on this site for a while in the pre answered question section you will most likely find all the answers you are looking for. Good luck!

 

[dallas702]

It's this kind of situation that makes divorce such a disaster for kids.

If you want to change the current situation/order, petition the court to do it. You can get a quick hearing since summer is coming. The judge will talk to you (depending on your state and what age is considered mature enough....14 seems to be common, but I've witnessed judge/child discussions for just this type of problem as young as 11). With a petition your mother, you, and your dad will all be heard.

Since we don't know all the particulars, and from what you've indicated your dad wants you to stay with him during the summer, you will have to do some serious persuading.....especially if this is the only real time your dad has with you. Maybe your dad can help you get a job where he lives, and you can certainly train for cross country in almost any location. Look for a positive solution rather than one where at least one person gets hurt.