Citation 21453(a) VC Red Light

[kimcjason]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CA

I'm stopped at a red light, at in intersection for a highway. I'm in a right turn only lane. I need to make a right onto the highway entrance. While at a complete stop there are cars making a left onto the highway entrance that I need to make a right into. I briefly look down to the window control to roll up my window. When I looked up it was a green light, and I proceeded to make a right turn which led me to ALMOST hit a police officer that was making a left onto the highway entrance. He was visibly angry and pointed for me to pull over. In that moment I was a bit shaken at what just happened so I didn't really process everything that happened. I thought I was fully at fault for not clearing the intersection, BUT I slowly came to realized after I was ticketed that the police officer was the one who ran the red light. I clearly went on a green light as I have a witness. My dad was right behind me as we both left work at the same time.
The police officer was mean at first and was really nice after I repeatedly apologized. After taking my drivers license and insurance it took him a while for him to come back. As he was filling out my citation he said that he's going to give me a red light ticket. He began to explain that he was at first going to cite me a ticket for "improper use of lane" (something of that nature), but since it puts a point on my license he'll cut me a break and only give me a red light ticket, which he said will only cost me around $30.
I didn't think much of it first. I just thought, "I'll just pay the $30 and get it done and over with".
Later only to realize I've NEVER heard of anyone paying anything less that $300 for a red light ticket.
I got the ticket which came out to $490.00 for the bail amount.
and $544.00 for the traffic school amount.

Am I in the wrong here? I want to contest the violation. Just want to know if it's worth it.

 

[adjusterjack]

1 - Police are allowed to lie to avoid road side arguments.

2 - Your Dad is hardly unbiased and his testimony will likely be given zero credibility against the officer's.

3 - You're lucky you didn't get a careless driving citation for not paying attention to what you were doing.

Sorry, but I don't think there's any way out of this for you.

 

[kimcjason]

1 - Police are allowed to lie to avoid road side arguments.

2 - Your Dad is hardly unbiased and his testimony will likely be given zero credibility against the officer's.

3 - You're lucky you didn't get a careless driving citation for not paying attention to what you were doing.

Sorry, but I don't think there's any way out of this for you.

The police officer ran a red light. Isn't that reckless driving as well?
I at least had the right of way?

 

[Zigner]

The police officer ran a red light. Isn't that reckless driving as well?

How would you know? You looked down long enough to not even realize that light had turned green.

ETA: Not only did you look down long enough to not realize the light had turned green, but when you eventually did look up and see the green light, you slammed on the gas instead of taking a fraction of a second to get your situational awareness back.

I at least had the right of way?

Not if he entered on the yellow...

 

[kimcjason]

How would you know? You looked down long enough to not even realize that light had turned green.


Not if he entered on the yellow...

I went back and and tested the light numerous times as I take the same route home. My side of the lane doesn't turn green until the left turn lane is at a red for at least a second to a second and a half.
If anything he actually nearly hit me. I was already entering the highway entrance. He was behind me now that I think about it. Not completely behind me, but next to me to the left. I was ahead of him about half a length of a car.
and I only looked down for a second... if that...

 

[Zigner]

I went back and and tested the light numerous times as I take the same route home. My side of the lane doesn't turn green until the left turn lane is at a red for at least a second to a second and a half.
If anything he actually nearly hit me. I was already entering the highway entrance. He was behind me now that I think about it. Not completely behind me, but next to me to the left. I was ahead of him about half a length of a car.

I'm sure the more you think about it, the more your memory of the event changes. The simple fact is that you had no clue what was going on when you looked up, yet you still felt it was proper to accelerate in to the intersection.

 

[kimcjason]

I'm sure the more you think about it, the more your memory of the event changes. The simple fact is that you had no clue what was going on when you looked up, yet you still felt it was proper to accelerate in to the intersection.

My memory of the event is not changing. I'm simply adding to what happened. I feel as if ya'll are ignoring the fact that the police officer ran a red light. Like I said I have a witness. Whether or not I could use my dads testimony, he saw him run the red light. I also did know what was going on in the intersection. I looked over to the left turn lane before I looked down to roll my window up. I didn't expect him to run a red light.

 

[Zigner]

My memory of the event is not changing. I'm simply adding to what happened. I feel as if ya'll are ignoring the fact that the police officer ran a red light. Like I said I have a witness. Whether or not I could use my dads testimony, he saw him run the red light. I also did know what was going on in the intersection. I looked over to the left turn lane before I looked down to roll my window up. I didn't expect him to run a red light.

I still contend that you have no evidence that the officer ran a red...

Best of luck to you.

 

[kimcjason]

I still contend that you have no evidence that the officer ran a red...

Best of luck to you.

I went on a green light... No matter how long I waited at a green light, the left turn signal for the police officer will be red. The light had to have been red for him to be in the spot where we almost collided.
I guess this isn't something that is easily determined without being there and seeing it for yourself.
Not looking to argue here, just looking for insight I guess, if it's worth me fighting it.

 

[AgentSmithers]

I went on a green light... No matter how long I waited at a green light, the left turn signal for the police officer will be red. The light had to have been red for him to be in the spot where we almost collided.
I guess this isn't something that is easily determined without being there and seeing it for yourself.
Not looking to argue here, just looking for insight I guess, if it's worth me fighting it.

Kim,
In california there is no reason not to contest a traffic violation (Infraction), If your stone cold guilty make them work for it. Sorry your not going to get much assistance any of the peer's on this forum, Some of them are Angry retired CHP officers so they normally just conclude your story with guilt.

Call the Court Clerk and ask to extend your arrighment date 60 days to save up some $$$.

About two weeks before the Arrigtment date file a TR-205 form for a Request by Written Decleration and file it on time.

If you loose file a TR-220 De Novo and see if the cop shows in person. If he does right before Trial starts you can ask the Judge for traffic school in Exchange of your trial hearing. If the Cop dosn't show then it'll get dropped.

Good Luck Sir!

Post Script: Unless you have a black and white question you wont get any help that you haven't already.

 

[CdwJava]

With regards to your allegation that the officer HAD to have entered on a red light, how do you know? It's possible that he began his turn on a yellow, or had to yield for other traffic. You admit, yourself, that you had looked away and were not paying attention until you suddenly looked up and started your turn on a green. Therefore, you'd be guessing as to what the officer may or may not have done.

You are free to contest the cite, and even to play the games that AgentSmithers suggests. However, keep in mind that if you do go to trial and lose, you will likely lose the opportunity for traffic school.

However, that being said, I can't understand how the officer might argue a violation of VC 21453(a) if you did not cross the limit line until after the light was green. Had you pulled out in front of the officer, that should have been another code section. If the officer testifies to an unsafe turn, then you should prevail on VC 21453(a).

There's either something more to this, or, the officer was a dunderhead, or, you had stopped over the limit line in the first place.

 

[Zigner]

...or, you had stopped over the limit line in the first place.

That's a very good point. I think, aside from speeding, stopping beyond the limit line is the violation I see the most during my commute.

 

[FlyingRon]

Kim,
In california there is no reason not to contest a traffic violation (Infraction), If your stone cold guilty make them work for it.

"Them" don't dare if you protest your violation or not. It's their job.

Call the Court Clerk and ask to extend your arrighment date 60 days to save up some $$$.

Doesn't save anything, just delays when you have to pay it.

If you loose file a TR-220 De Novo and see if the cop shows in person. If he does right before Trial starts you can ask the Judge for traffic school in Exchange of your trial hearing.

Exchange of what? Anyhow, the offer of traffic schools is discretionary on the judge's part. He's not obliged to grant it once you plead not guilty.

 

[AgentSmithers]

"Them" don't dare if you protest your violation or not. It's their job.



Doesn't save anything, just delays when you have to pay it.


Exchange of what? Anyhow, the offer of traffic schools is discretionary on the judge's part. He's not obliged to grant it once you plead not guilty.

I'm not sure what you mean by your first quote.

As for your second, Some people are fairly tight when it comes to money and can use the addtional 60 days to save up the bail amount while trial awaits.

Last part is Exchanging Trial for Traffic School, There are multiple points to this.

1: You can wait to see if the Cop even shows.
2: You can ask for this before trial starts, The Judge is normally happy to exchange trial for it because then he dosnt have to waste his time going through it. He prefers to give you traffic school, take your money and get you out the door.
3: Why wouldn't he give traffic school, He gave everyone else traffic school? Why would going to trial hurt that chance? Wouldn't that be disencuraging to your right to trial? Of course it would be. Judge's use that to get you to plead guilty and take traffic school and get out of their hair. However the changes of getting it right before trial is still pretty good in my opinion because I've never heard of it being denied all but once. But that case wasent an infraction case.

 

[Zigner]

I'm not sure what you mean by your first quote.

You're statement of "make them work for it" is silly. The court personnel (etc) are there for work whether or not this guy shows up...they could care less.