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shegerianlaw

Junior Member
If your employer asked you to work a different set of hours might be considered forcing to quit, if that employer had been giving you the hours you needed for a long time and was fully aware of the situation which necessitated your not being able to work the other hours, and chose deliberately to force a quit by making you change shifts. Quitting your job for a personal reason is not a provable unemployment claim because the employer may change your hours as to meet their business needs without regard for your personal schedule. Sometime employee has signed a contract that they have no problem of timing, then you have served accordingly or you quit the job.
 


cbg

I'm a Northern Girl
Chyvan, I really didn't think you were stupid. Misguided, yes, but not stupid. I'm starting to rethink that opinion.

If the employee doesn't say anything about why they were fired, then the UI has only the employer's position to work from. If you really think that's going to work to the employee's advantage most of the time, then you're not only stupid but dangerous. Will there be exceptions? Sure. There are always going to be one-off situations. But in the vast majority of situations, the employee needs to be their own advocate - the employer certainly isn't going to take their side.

And if you can't see that, you shouldn't be posting here, or anywhere. You're not the one who will have to live with the consequences if your bad advice keeps the employee from getting benefits.
 

commentator

Senior Member
Absolutely wrong, no. Some of the many many many decisions they make in a day or a week or a month got overturned, possibly. That rarely means they were totally wrong, just that it didn't get seen the same way by someone else on down the line. That's why the appeals situation is in place. Possibly they made the wrong decision because they didn't have all the relevant information at the time the decision was made.

And that happens more than you'd imagine because some people just plain old fail to cooperate with the claims takers. I have had people who refused to say anything to me except "You'll have to take that up with my attorney!!!!! That does not mean the claims taker was wrong if they are later overturned. It certainly does not mean that this provision of no information and failure to cooperate with the early stages of the claims process is going to be a good idea.

If all you have is a certain kind of a hammer everything looks like your own particular kind of a nail. That's all you can say about some advice.

No, when filing a claim you do not repeat every negative thing that happened to you on the job before you quit or were terminated. You do not go into too much detail. You do not admit to wrongdoing that you are falsely accused of or confess anything. That does not mean you do not cooperate with the claims taking process and answer the questions truthfully from the beginning. Telling the truth and responding briefly and reasonably are not the same thing as telling too much, giving negatives that you don't need to bring up or confessing to something you did not do.

There is a complete disregard from some points of view that there is ever a time when the claimant is at fault, the employer truly did have a valid work related reason to terminate their employee, the person quit the job because they were a spoiled over-demanding *******, and they should not be allowed to draw benefits in a balanced system. The law most certainly does allow for the employer to run their operation with their best interests of the business in mind, NOT the well being and happiness of the employees. After all, if they don't stay in business, nobody has a job. When you are in the system, that is drilled into your head.

Claimants don't have lobbyists. Employers who are being charged taxes for the unemployment program most definitely do. They constantly remind their state's legislators that they are to be given lots of consideration in the unemployment appeals process in every state. It is much of a struggle keep the system balanced, but not because the workers hate regular people and will screw them if they can or they are all a bunch of inefficient bozos who don't know how to do their jobs correctly. It isn't correct to tell people they won't be approved if they don't cite laws to prove the system wrong and WIN their benefits after a terrible fight with the government agency beginning with "no information" in the initial claim process.

Thanks to the interaction of federal and state unemployment laws and the department's historic commitment to balance, it works fairly well.

Within the system you sometimes hold your nose and deny people who have really truly gotten a bad deal from a terrible employer. But at the same time, you sometimes approve people you cannot stand who do not deserve it on a karmic level, simply because the law is on their side. Almost always they think their valiant and brilliant work was the only thing that caused them to win in the horrible old inefficient evil government system. That's their point of view. It's when they start leading others to their truth that it gets scary.
 
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Chyvan

Member
Please give a source for your statistic...

I posted the link from the LA Times article before http://articles.latimes.com/2014/feb/26/business/la-fi-edd-appeals-20140226

and it's still going on http://www.cuiab.ca.gov/Statistics/quickStats/Outcomes_Jan-Jun_2015.pdf 1256 is the separation issue 29,577 total claimant appeals with 16,055 wins that's a 54% reversal rate.

That rarely means they were totally wrong, . . . That's why the appeals situation is in place. Possibly they made the wrong decision because they didn't have all the relevant information at the time the decision was made.

The anecdotal stories I deal with tell a different story. Good thing, and why I tell people not to worry about an EDD decision and get it in front of an ALJ. I think they do have the information, they just chose to ignore it. I'm working on a case right now. The woman was out on maternity leave. When she tried to come back to work, her prior job no longer existed and she was offered a 20 hour per week position with a 30% cut in pay per hour. If those facts don't scream to an adjudicator fired and unsuitable, nothing will. The initial decision was "You quit your last employment with Susan ** because you were having financial troubles. You did not explore all reasonable solutions before you quit. After considering available information, the department finds that you do not meet legal requirements for payment of benefits." The claimant even had emails to back up the story, and that is what the adjudicator took away from the situation.
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
I posted the link from the LA Times article before http://articles.latimes.com/2014/feb/26/business/la-fi-edd-appeals-20140226

and it's still going on http://www.cuiab.ca.gov/Statistics/quickStats/Outcomes_Jan-Jun_2015.pdf 1256 is the separation issue 29,577 total claimant appeals with 16,055 wins that's a 54% reversal rate.

That does NOT indicate that a mistake was made.
 

Chyvan

Member
That does NOT indicate that a mistake was made.

What does it indicate then?

The way I see it a claimant was denied, appealed, and got benefits. That's what happens when a mistake with the initial determination is made. It gets fixed on appeal. If the EDD workers were doing the initial adjudications correctly, the ALJs would be rubber stamping the decisions and the reversal rate wouldn't be 54%, it would be closer to 0%.
 

Chyvan

Member
What is it that you do, Chyvan? What sort of "case" are you working on and what qualifies you to work on it?

What is it that you do? It's really none of your business. I'm working on a UI appeal, and I'm qualified to do it because maternity leave and an attempt to return to a job that no longer exists doesn't rise to the level of a quit, and I'll know I was the right person to assist when the claimant wins on appeal as they often do when I get involved.

I'm starting to get the feeling you're that Aaron guy from the other site that gave me such a hard time about the woman that got UI after a schedule change.
 

cbg

I'm a Northern Girl
What is it that you do? It's really none of your business

Translation: I have no qualifications but I found a hat and think that makes me a cowboy.
 

commentator

Senior Member
So if everything worked as it should, there would be no need for appeals because the initial decision would be in the employee's favor 100% of the time and that would be the correct decision, and the fresh eyes would only need to "rubber stamp" those correct decisions, hm? What an interesting conception of how a system works that you have had some minimal involvement in.
 

commentator

Senior Member
So if everything worked as it should, there would be no need for appeals because the initial decision would be in the employee's favor 100% of the time and that would be the correct decision, and the fresh eyes would only need to "rubber stamp" those correct decisions, hm? What an interesting conception of how a system works that you have had some minimal involvement in.


I am really tired of beating this silly horse. Night all.
 

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