custody of children

[nosraf]

What is the name of your state? Missouri

I am sending this question for advice on what to do for my daughters boy friend. My daughters boy friend has 4 children by 2 different women. He has 2 boys ages 8 and 9. He is the custodial parent of the 2 boys age 8 and nine. Their biological mother lives in Florida. He got custody of this boys approximately 8 years ago, because their mother was abusing them. Here in Missouri he met another woman that he was in a relationship with for about 8 years. He has 2 children with her. They never married. She had an affair with another man and got pregnant by him. She kicked him out of thier house but she told him that she would care for his 2 boys that are not biologically hers until he found a new place to live. He is now living with my daughter. He talked to his former girlfriend about getting his 2 boys to come and live with him and my daughter. On Tuesday of this week she said he could come and get the boys. He went to her house to pick them up and she had a change of heart and decided she wasn't going to give them to him.
She called the police. The police would not make her give him his boys. The police told him that he would have to prove that he has legal custody of the boys. His custody papers for the boys from Florida were left at her house when he moved. We are trying to obtain those records from Florida, along with birth certificates. The birth certificates should be here on Friday. I talked with the police and explained what we were doing and he said that the paperwork from Florida would not work to get his boys either. He said a judge in Missouri would have to sign off on the Florida papers. He has since talked with the woman that has his boys, and she said he can pick-up all 4 children for the weekend. Now the question. Does he have to return his 2 boys to her, and I am just talking about the 2 boys that have no biological ties to her? He has no problem with sending the 2 children that he has with her back after the weekend. I desperately home this can be answered quickly. As of right now I believe that is his plan.

 

[nextwife]

The ONLY thing that supercedes a CO is another CO. He should get his papers from FL, and go over to get his kids. Let HER prove that she has ANY legal custody in order to keep them. He does NOT need a MO CO if there is no other CO since. He needs to talk to someone else at the PD!

 

[LdiJ]

The ONLY thing that supercedes a CO is another CO. He should get his papers from FL, and go over to get his kids. Let HER prove that she has ANY legal custody in order to keep them. He does NOT need a MO CO if there is no other CO since. He needs to talk to someone else at the PD!

Wait a minute....she is a legal stranger to the children. She has no court order giving her custody. Technically she is actually kidnapping those kids if she refuses to turn them over to their parent.

He shouldn't even have to have custody orders to get his kids back. If he gets them for visitation this weekend then he definitely should keep them. She has absolutely no paperwork that even proves that she is related to the kids, let alone that she has custody!

If he doesn't get visitation then he needs to talk to the police...and keep moving higher up in the chain of command until someone understands that she is keeping children that aren't hers away from their lawful parent, without court orders.

 

[haiku]

why in the WORLD would this woman have rights to keep children that are not hers? Why would he even be thinking of giving them BACK if she gives them to him?

this would be like the cops saying I could keep my neighbors kids from thier mother....

Is there more to this story?

 

[nosraf]

repy to LDiJ, Haiku, nextwife

They were never married, nor did she adopt these children, and basically that is the entire story surrounding these 2 children. The only other thing I might add is that to my knowledge these 2 children believe that she is their real mother. But again I am not absolutely sure of that. I am positve that what I posted and asked earlier is the story. In some of the paperwork he did have, their was a child support reciept, computer generated showing him as the custodial parent, signed by 2 child support clerks. We asked the deputy if that would be enough and they said no they needed something signed by a judge from Missouri. The ex-girlfriend does not dispute the fact that these 2 boys are not hers. The police said that she had established a relationship with the kids. I asked the boys father wether she could go to school and take the children out of school. What he tells me is that her name is not on any records at school for the boys. I sugested that he get copies of that paperwork also. I feel the more paperwork the better. Thanks for your replies.

 

[nextwife]

We asked the deputy if that would be enough and they said no they needed something signed by a judge from Missouri. The ex-girlfriend does not dispute the fact that these 2 boys are not hers. The police said that she had established a relationship with the kids.

Bullcrap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It is NOT the PDs place to decide that a step mom's bond overrides a father's legal rights! IF stepmom pursues custody it is up to the JUDGE, not the PD, to decide if her "relationship" should be a factor.

Have him talk to everyone up the line at the PD, until he gets someone who has
a clue about the law.

Bet if it was a stepDAD trying this, the PD would pull those kids in a heartbeat.

 

[nosraf]

reply to nextwife

I agree with what you state. My only other concern is he is probably not going to be able to see his other 2 children after this weekend because she is going to be totally p. offed and she will use these other 2 children that way. It is a shame that this will happen. I would assume that in order for him to see his 2 children by her, will end up taking a court order. He never said that he would not let her see his 2 boys, but I know after this I would think the only way she would get to see them is at my daughters and his house. The boys biological mother has not contacted him to see how her children are since the day he took custody. My plan is to sit down with him, my daughter and then the 2 boys to make absolutly sure this is what they want to do. I know the boys have said that they want to live with their dad. I know I will treat them as I would treat my own grandchildren. The other thing hope is that family services do not decide to take the boys while everything gets sorted out. He should have the birth certificates by tommorrow. Thanks again.

 

[raiseretrievers]

I am new at this end, but, if the ex-GF does not have her name at the school then I must assume that the father does and he can pick up his children from school instead of playing head games with the ex. While he is there, he should make sure that the children are not allowed to be picked up by the ex and he should get a copy of their records.

Blast me if I'm wrong.

 

[LdiJ]

I am new at this end, but, if the ex-GF does not have her name at the school then I must assume that the father does and he can pick up his children from school instead of playing head games with the ex. While he is there, he should make sure that the children are not allowed to be picked up by the ex and he should get a copy of their records.

Blast me if I'm wrong.

No, you aren't wrong, you are dead right! Its unbelieveable that he is allowing her to do this.....and that the police didn't help him!

 

[nosraf]

reply to ldij and raiseretrievers

I know it is hard to believe he is letting this go on but quite honestly he isn't the sharpest tool in the shed. I believe he loves his children very much through. I am trying to guide him but also I do not want to influance him into doing something he shouldn't do. To me there is a lot to consider, more so than just taking his 2 boys, such as: What impact is this going to have on them and their other 2 siblings? It also means a new school for the boys. Could also mean the end of seeing his other 2 children until he gets some type of visitation agreement. Last night friday the 10th, all 4 of his children were ready to be picked up at their grandmothers house (the girlfriends mother). For her wanting to keep his 2 boys and the police basically on her side. She must not be very smart either. On tuesday she is pushing him out the door and locking him out and on friday she lets him have the kids for the weekend. At this point he is not going to take the 2 boys back. He is however going to take the 2 children that they have together back. Should be interesting. Again thanks for your input into this matter.

 

[nosraf]

about the orignal post

Question. Does anyone out there know of this sort of thing or simular thing happening to anyone else, and if so what was the out come? I would simply like to call the police and ask them would he have to return his 2 boys? But do not know if I should do this. I wish I had a personal friend that is a policeman.

 

[nextwife]

The Stepmom has NO, I repeat NO, LEGAL standing to keep the kids from him unless and until she shows the police a custody order to the contrary! No matter how much she or the kids like each other.

If any police are telling him she has a LEGAL right to keep the kids from their biodad, he needs to keep talking to supervisors up the line until he gets someone who is not making up the law as they go along. Telling him the stepmom can keep the kids because they have a bond is dead wrong legally. If she does not have CO'd custody, they are obligated to help him get his kids. She is a "legal stranger".

 

[stealth2]

The problem is that the cops generally will NOT get in the middle of this sort of dispute - ESPECIALLY when he has no documentation to prove he is the father. Once he has them for the w/e, the situation switches to his favor and he does not need to return them to his ex-g/f.

 

[LdiJ]

Question. Does anyone out there know of this sort of thing or simular thing happening to anyone else, and if so what was the out come? I would simply like to call the police and ask them would he have to return his 2 boys? But do not know if I should do this. I wish I had a personal friend that is a policeman.

Please understand. HE CAN NOT GET IN ANY TROUBLE! She has no legal right to the children. The police officer he dealt with previously actually BROKE the law by forcing him to leave the children with her. She is the one breaking the law...not him.

 

[haiku]

Please understand. HE CAN NOT GET IN ANY TROUBLE! She has no legal right to the children. The police officer he dealt with previously actually BROKE the law by forcing him to leave the children with her. She is the one breaking the law...not him.

without paperwork to prove who's who, though, Stealth is correct, he needs his paperwork, or he needs to wait until she 'gives" them for visitation.