custody question

[wonkothesane]

Moving to Florida really complicated things for you. I would have all kinds of advice to offer if you still lived in the same community as your children...but you don't...and that is entirely YOUR fault.

I *had* to move, because living in Illinois was unfesable economically

Maybe my "fault", but staying was not an option.

You have a court order...mom gave you a significant amount of time with the child outside of that court order. You are now being petty (yes you are) because mom wants to take the child back earlier than you agreed/wanted it to happen....under an informal agreement.

No. No court order. None. They didn't have one.

I voulntraily surrendered the child - my fault. But it seemed like my only option in the circumstances. I was outnumbered...whatever...I was scared and imimidated and not really sure *what* was best.

I probably really ****ed up by giving her back, but I didn't see just demanding that she stay for another 24 hours "just because".

I don't blame you for the way that you feel....I sympathize.... Nevertheless that doesn't change the cirumstances.

No. (But I think you are a bit mistaken about the circumstances. Like the lack of a court order.)

Anyway, I need to know what to do next. What is the move that makes the most sense *under* the circumstances?

If you really want things to change...then MOVE YOUR BUTT BACK TO ILLINOIS...and STAY THERE.

Would in a second but now my dad is running around and screaming that if I even step foot in the state I will be arrested - just for being there.

What you have now is fixed weekend visitation which would normally be enforceable but isn't because you live in Florida. You have summer visitation that is "as agreed" which is completely UNENFORCEABLE. Your family is telling you "not to rock the boat" because they realize that you messed up by moving to FL.

he. My family *begged* me to move back to Florida! They even drove up there to help me move!

If you believe that your children are living in a bad situation...then again, get your butt back to Illinois...establish a regular and consistant presence in their lives under your existing order...and then file for primary custody.

Sure. Can I do that without being arrested on the spot like my dad says???

(Remember, there is *no* restraining order of warrent for my arrest.)

 

[wonkothesane]

Sure, just give up.
Ever hear the expression, "If there's a will there's a way?" Heck, I chopped off three feet of gorgeous curls and sold them just give an attorney a retainer once. And, I would do it again in a heart beat if it meant fighting for what I thought was best for my children

I'd sell a kidney if I could! I don't really own a car (it's my parents) nor have anything that valuable to sell.

(Sorry for the double-post. I meant this as an add-on to my last post but must have hit the wrong button.)

 

[Ron1347]

'my dad is running around and screaming that if I even step foot in the state I will be arrested - just for being there.'

'(Remember, there is *no* restraining order of warrent for my arrest.)'

What/HUH?? There's a contradiction there! I'm lost.

 

[wonkothesane]

'my dad is running around and screaming that if I even step foot in the state I will be arrested - just for being there.'

'(Remember, there is *no* restraining order of warrent for my arrest.)'

What/HUH?? There's a contradiction there! I'm lost.

EXACTLY!!!

They are saying that they have talked to the sheriff and he's "on the lookout for me", but they never took the so-called threatening letters and sought a restraining order. (Or if they *did* it was denied.)

So how can they do this???

At the same time, I take the threat pretty seriously, because it *is* a small-town sheriff, and he's prone to throwing *his* weight around (which is considerable, both literally and figuratively.)

Let me add this little bit of backstory if it will help you understand: several years ago my ex's bf jumped me and broke my shoulder in 3 places. While I was waiting for the ambulance the sheriff's deputy came up to me and said that if I didn't just calim that "I fell" he'd have *me* arrested.

Hand to God. I'm not making that story up.

 

[LdiJ]

I *had* to move, because living in Illinois was unfesable economically

Maybe my "fault", but staying was not an option.

No. No court order. None. They didn't have one.

I voulntraily surrendered the child - my fault. But it seemed like my only option in the circumstances. I was outnumbered...whatever...I was scared and imimidated and not really sure *what* was best.

I probably really ****ed up by giving her back, but I didn't see just demanding that she stay for another 24 hours "just because".

No. (But I think you are a bit mistaken about the circumstances. Like the lack of a court order.)

Anyway, I need to know what to do next. What is the move that makes the most sense *under* the circumstances?

Would in a second but now my dad is running around and screaming that if I even step foot in the state I will be arrested - just for being there.

he. My family *begged* me to move back to Florida! They even drove up there to help me move!

Sure. Can I do that without being arrested on the spot like my dad says???

(Remember, there is *no* restraining order of warrent for my arrest.)

Unless you are leaving something serious out of this story....ie being massively in arrears on your child support....or accusations of abuse/neglect (that could stick)...or domestic violence accusations (again that could stick)....then why in the world would you be arrested?...or even worry about that?

 

[wonkothesane]

Unless you are leaving something serious out of this story....ie being massively in arrears on your child support....or accusations of abuse/neglect (that could stick)...or domestic violence accusations (again that could stick)....then why in the world would you be arrested?...or even worry about that?

I am not. I don't even *pay* child support. I wasn't ordered to. (I know, but I wasn't. The judge was EXTREMELY reluctant to NOT order some child support - she said that at the trial - but my lawyer (I *could* afford one then, but back then my dad was willing to back me - he *isn't* now) and her lawyer agreed on
some deal where *they* will ask the judge not to demand child support if *I* agreed to ALL of their terms. So I did.

There was also a plan where they would agree not to seek an extension of the restraining order, if I didn't try to have it dropped myself by the judge or at *all* bring up the circumstances that lead to it with the judge. In otherwords, if I agrred to *everything*, and contested nothing, they woul ddrop the Order of Protection and not seek child support. And my lawyer - a good friend of my ex's lawyer - decided on this all one time together and just presented the "plan" to my ex and to me - individually, of course - and afterwords we *both* felt that the whole thing was kinda shoved down our throats.

Edited to add:

But I am worried about it because of what happened the time my ex's bf broke my shoulder na dthe sheriff threatend to arrest *me*.

I know it sounds very paranoid, but this guy is an almost stereotypical small town sheriff and he believes that his word is law. (And he has ran like unopposed in every election for many, many years.)

 

[LdiJ]

I am not. I don't even *pay* child support. I wasn't ordered to. (I know, but I wasn't. The judge was EXTREMELY reluctant to NOT order some child support - she said that at the trial - but my lawyer (I *could* afford one then, but back then my dad was willing to back me - he *isn't* now) and her lawyer agreed on
some deal where *they* will ask the judge not to demand child support if *I* agreed to ALL of their terms. So I did.

There was also a plan where they would agree not to seek an extension of the restraining order, if I didn't try to have it dropped myself by the judge or at *all* bring up the circumstances that lead to it with the judge. In otherwords, if I agrred to *everything*, and contested nothing, they woul ddrop the Order of Protection and not seek child support. And my lawyer - a good friend of my ex's lawyer - decided on this all one time together and just presented the "plan" to my ex and to me - individually, of course - and afterwords we *both* felt that the whole thing was kinda shoved down our throats.

Edited to add:

But I am worried about it because of what happened the time my ex's bf broke my shoulder na dthe sheriff threatend to arrest *me*.

I know it sounds very paranoid, but this guy is an almost stereotypical small town sheriff and he believes that his word is law. (And he has ran like unopposed in every election for many, many years.)

You need to stop asking for advice here....your situation is complicated...and sounds like "small town"...and you REALLY need the advice of someone local.

 

[wonkothesane]

You need to stop asking for advice here....your situation is complicated...and sounds like "small town"...and you REALLY need the advice of someone local.

I can't ask for the advice of someone local if I can't set foot in the town.

What I am *trying* to aks is if anyone has any ideas as what I can do next (if I can't afford a lawyer) to make sure I am protected. Maybe - *if* the sheriff is abusing his authority - go *over* his head and make this NOT just a "small town" issue.

Like earlier, when I was asking if there was a way if *I* could file for custody with out having to set foot in the town itself. Can I *mail* in or fax papers?

I think that is a legitimate question.

Another would be - who is the sheriff's boss? Does he have someone that *he* has to answer to. (Other than just "the voters".) Like, hypothetically, if a sheriff was breaking the law, who would be the authority that would step in and prosicute *him*? The state's attorney, perhaps?

Maybe there *isn't* an answer, but I woul dthink that in this day and age that people wouldn't be able to just automatically *win* because they have more money, or because they misuse authority.

I have this *incredable* tool sitting in front of me - the internet. There must be some way I can use *it* to get my story out, make people aware of what is going on. Wrestle this away from the "small town" arena and get it "big time" and in the *limelight* and under public scrutiney.

People who do bad things and abuse authority and so forth - like roaches - *love* to opperate in the dark. There must be a way to shine some light on this.

And frankly, I'd just like to know *what* my rights are. If I feel they are being denied, what can I do about it *without* a lawyer. (Since I think most people who *can* afford lawyers woun't be hanging out on a site like this.)

And there is all this *expertice* here - in doing thinsg without lawyers - that I would like to be able to tap here.

 

[NMJustice]

In my opinion and you dont have to listen I will understand because you sound so upset, and I completely understand because I have children too and I have an EX too.

But first I am wondering why are you so afraid to step foot in their county if you didnt do anything. It just makes a person wonder. If you sent a few irate emails maybe she felt as you were being threatening towards her. I would start off by contacting the Sheriff and asking if this is true to begin with..you dont even know if he said that or they were making it up. Then if he says that he did say that...ask him to send you copies of the emails that she had provided to him and compare them to see if she did alter them. If she did then there would be any easy way of proving that..but only if you save your outgoing messages. (which I hope you did!)

ok my opinion....what bugs me most about the whole situation is you taking your daughter into another room and asking her what she wanted. She is a CHILD she cant honestly tell you what she wants when she is being pressured to tell you what you want to hear. She felt like she was being put in the middle so you cant take what she says at face value. She is a child and she deserves BOTH of you, but dont put her in the middle its yours and your ex's fight. You are right that you have the right to see her, but I think that the court order needs to be modified to allow you time with her out of state, because your court order in another state isnt worth what you may think it is in your state, and you really couldnt enforce the court order you have now because its out of jurisdiction.

Like I said you can ignore what I said about not putting your daughter in the middle, Im not expecting what I say to make a differnce but if it does good for your daughter. She deserves to love you both even if her mother has a dirty home.

 

[LdiJ]

I can't ask for the advice of someone local if I can't set foot in the town.

What I am *trying* to aks is if anyone has any ideas as what I can do next (if I can't afford a lawyer) to make sure I am protected. Maybe - *if* the sheriff is abusing his authority - go *over* his head and make this NOT just a "small town" issue.

Like earlier, when I was asking if there was a way if *I* could file for custody with out having to set foot in the town itself. Can I *mail* in or fax papers?

I think that is a legitimate question.

Another would be - who is the sheriff's boss? Does he have someone that *he* has to answer to. (Other than just "the voters".) Like, hypothetically, if a sheriff was breaking the law, who would be the authority that would step in and prosicute *him*? The state's attorney, perhaps?

Maybe there *isn't* an answer, but I woul dthink that in this day and age that people wouldn't be able to just automatically *win* because they have more money, or because they misuse authority.

I have this *incredable* tool sitting in front of me - the internet. There must be some way I can use *it* to get my story out, make people aware of what is going on. Wrestle this away from the "small town" arena and get it "big time" and in the *limelight* and under public scrutiney.

People who do bad things and abuse authority and so forth - like roaches - *love* to opperate in the dark. There must be a way to shine some light on this.

And frankly, I'd just like to know *what* my rights are. If I feel they are being denied, what can I do about it *without* a lawyer. (Since I think most people who *can* afford lawyers woun't be hanging out on a site like this.)

And there is all this *expertice* here - in doing thinsg without lawyers - that I would like to be able to tap here.

Ok...obviously there was a restraining order against you at one point. What exactly were the circumstances of the restraining order? Don't sugarcoat your end of it, tell the truth and you will get better advice.

The Mayor of the town is the sheriff's "boss" more or less.

Obviously you have been in the town since then....you talking about being in IL a lot.

Don't make us pull teeth to get information out of you. Tell the whole story.....if not, then get on the phone to a local attorney and tell him/her the whole story.

What town in IL?...how large is the town?..what area of the state? I know IL well and may be able to give some insite on whether or not the issue is serious or overblown.

 

[wonkothesane]

Ok...obviously there was a restraining order against you at one point. What exactly were the circumstances of the restraining order? Don't sugarcoat your end of it, tell the truth and you will get better advice.

The Mayor of the town is the sheriff's "boss" more or less.

Obviously you have been in the town since then....you talking about being in IL a lot.

Don't make us pull teeth to get information out of you. Tell the whole story.....if not, then get on the phone to a local attorney and tell him/her the whole story.

What town in IL?...how large is the town?..what area of the state? I know IL well and may be able to give some insite on whether or not the issue is serious or overblown.

The town(s) are Littleton Illinois when my ex's family lives, and she *may* be living now (she refuses to tell me where she lives) and Rushville, Illinois where the Sheriff's office and courthouse are. Both are in Schuyler County.

A third town is Macomb, Illinois, where my ex wife used to live - may still live but not for long as she is facing eviction, or has just been evicted.

As for the past restraining order, this is how I got it:

My ex and I were seperated (not legally) and she was having an affair. I found out about it and decided to ake the kids away back to Florida to live with me, to get them away from the situation - the man my ex was with was violent and abusive, *17* at the time, on probation - fresh out of jail - DCFS, ala child welfare, was investigation my ex at the time, my ex said that she had caught *him* having sex with their babysitter when she was supposed to be watching the kids, et, etc...I was just a bad situation..

I called to local *and* stste cops and asked if I removed the kids from the state and took them back home with me, would I be arrested for kidnapping. They all said "no". So I tried, but I made to mistake of going back to my ex's one last time (stupid, I know) to and I was jumpped by my ex's boyfried, his brother, and my ex's sister, and *trapped* in my ex's house why the kids were taken from my car. *I* called 911 from inside the house, but by the time the cops got there (10 minutes later - it's a rural area) I was in the front yeard and everyone else involved was hiding across the street in my ex's sisters house. So I was arrested. And my ex filed a restraining order.

Alos, when I was trying to get out of the house - fighting to pull the front door open as my ex's sister (who is a *very* big woman) was trying to force it shut on me, I sprayed her with some of me ex's pepper spray that I had found.

BUT - the State's Attorney heard the story, said that I was "sucker punched", and immediately dropped the charges. (Before I even had a lawyer, the charges were dropped.)

The SA was even considering - for a time - pressing charges agains all of *them*, for "illegal intrapment", but later on he decided that was "unfeasable"
because other them me very young children, *I* would be the only witness. (Me against all of them.)

The 30-day temporary restraining order, howver, stood untill my ex dropped it the day of the divorce trial. (After I had agreed to - and in exchange for agreeing with - her custody/divorce terms...whcih where pretty fair to me, so
me and my lawyer went with it.)

My second run-in with the sheriff was when - after the divorce - many months later - I was staying at my ex-wife's house (then in Littleton) and we were trying to "patch things up" (we were "seeing each other again") I came down stairs one night after I woke up in bed and my ex was gone, and went down stairs to find me ex and her *supposedly* ex-boyfriend having sex downstairs. I was so sick and disquisted - after being lied to by my ex that it was over - that I went to the kitchen to get my boots to leave (I had left them there the pervious night) but her bf, whos is *much* bigger than me, clims her though I was "going for a knife", grabbed me, and slammed me into a hardwood floor, breaking my clavice in three places.

When the ambulance got there - along with the sheriff - a sheriff's deputy cam up to me and said that if I didn't claim it was an accident he's "arrest me on the spot", I was so blinded with pain and in shock, I just muttered yes, it was an accident, and then passed out.

As for the letters I wrote. I never made threats in them. But I did get pretty emotional and in some parts were extremely critical of my ex, and I don't think they are grounds for an Order of Protection (restraining order) but to the already biased sheriff, may have made me souls a bit "irate".

Yea, I take responsibility for that. Stipid of me, but no grounds to arrest "me on sight" as my ex's father claims he will.

 

[wonkothesane]

In my opinion and you dont have to listen I will understand because you sound so upset, and I completely understand because I have children too and I have an EX too.

But first I am wondering why are you so afraid to step foot in their county if you didnt do anything. It just makes a person wonder. If you sent a few irate emails maybe she felt as you were being threatening towards her. I would start off by contacting the Sheriff and asking if this is true to begin with..you dont even know if he said that or they were making it up. Then if he says that he did say that...ask him to send you copies of the emails that she had provided to him and compare them to see if she did alter them. If she did then there would be any easy way of proving that..but only if you save your outgoing messages. (which I hope you did!)

Because I think the sheriff is a corupt and untrustworthy and he scares the **** out of me. (He has a *lot* of power.)

ok my opinion....what bugs me most about the whole situation is you taking your daughter into another room and asking her what she wanted. She is a CHILD she cant honestly tell you what she wants when she is being pressured to tell you what you want to hear. She felt like she was being put in the middle so you cant take what she says at face value. She is a child and she deserves BOTH of you, but dont put her in the middle its yours and your ex's fight. You are right that you have the right to see her, but I think that the court order needs to be modified to allow you time with her out of state, because your court order in another state isnt worth what you may think it is in your state, and you really couldnt enforce the court order you have now because its out of jurisdiction.

Like I said you can ignore what I said about not putting your daughter in the middle, Im not expecting what I say to make a differnce but if it does good for your daughter. She deserves to love you both even if her mother has a dirty home.

I wasn't trying to put her in the middle. I told her she was going to be with me until sunday, and they kept telling her she was leaving "right now". She was confused and I should have put my foot down, but she started going around the house and saying that she was tired of the "loud noises" - us arguing (but not yelling) - and she kept asking me what was going on. So finally I just took her aside and said the mommy wanted to take her now, I wanted her to stay, what did she want? She said "stay for a little while longer" (she wanted to finish cooking some soup she was helping me make) but she didn't want to "make mommy mad" so she would leave.

Maybe that was a bad idea - she is pretty young (5) and has a hard time understanding what is going on. I just felt pressured by my ex and her father (standing in front of me - over me - and demanding her back) and I was trying to get away from them - and get *her* away from them so we could talk alone. (Btw, when I did my ex's father kept following us around and standing 10 feet away and not letting us alone. I think he was suspecting that I would try to run off with her, which was untrue.)

I wasn't *trying* to put her in the middle, I just made all my kids a promise recently - after my ex accused me of "using them against her", and after my kids told me they were mad at their mom for not listening to them - that I would listen to them and do what is both 1, I think is best for them and 2, what I think is most in line with their wishes and desires. (I wouldn't *force* them live with me if they didn't want, etc...)

Like I said, I wasn't meaining to "put them in the middle" - my ex is doing enough of that - but just trying to *listen* to what they want, because knowbody else is.

The truth is that my kids have lately *all* expressed a lot of disappointment and anger at my ex wife for "not listening" to them and for "ignoring" (their words) them. I vowed not to do that, and I am trying to make my kids understand that *I* can be trusted, that *I* will listen, that I *won't* put them in the middle but will do what I think is best for them and what *they* want. (Not just what *I* wan't. Or mommy want's. Or momy's boyfriend wants.)

A time is someday going to come when they are older and can choose - may be *asked* to choose - where they want to live. When that day come, I want them to say it's with me.

In fact, they say they want to live somewhere near both of us. I have told them - and that's the truth - that that is exactly what I want. And it *is*. And they always say "I know, but mommy's boyfried won't let us." They *know* that *my* wishes are most inline with theirs. They know that *I* am the one they can always talk to. And I hope is they even *have* to decide - which will be *very* painfull for them - that they will choose me, knowing that I will listen to them and do what they want.

They alos know that *I* am not the one trying to *force* them to decide. Their mommy is. Their mommy is making them pick and choose. They want us to live some place all close together, and their mom won't let that happen. She is making them have to spend some time in Illinois and some time in Florida - not me. And they know that I will NEVER keep them from mommy or EVER make them pick and choose. I tell them that if they lived with me, I would let them see their mommy *anytime* they wanted, all they had to do is ask. (And it's *true*.)

Right now, my ex refuse to let me speak with them (with the other two back in Illinois) and refuses to let them call me (and they ask her too, when I have seen them they tell me this). They also know - I hope - that *I* would never do something like that to them if they were living with me.

And to be honest, my ex's accusations that I am "using the kids against her" has upset me - I know it's not true, but it *gets* to me - and I was hoping one thing I could do to make sure that I really *wasn't* doing that was to listen to the kids, not just myself.

 

[LdiJ]

Trying to pull a "snatch" regarding your kids was flat out stupid....sorry but it was. You should have taken it to court for emergency orders.

I don't entirely "buy" your story about what happened the second time....I suspect there was a little more to it...I am not saying that you were entirely in the wrong...just that I suspect that you gave them some reason to fear your intentions.....I doubt that you calmly walked into the kitchen to get you boots without saying ANYTHING.

In any case...that probably does "seal" your reputation with the local IL sheriff...and if anything else happens you are going to be perceived as the "bad guy". You are definitely dealing with "podunk" IL...

However that doesn't mean that you can't live in IL. It just means that you can't live in the jurisdiction of that sheriff...and that you need the exchange location to be outside of that county. Small town sheriffs have no power outside of their jurisdiction. Stepping foot in IL isn't going to get you arrested...stepping foot in that particular jurisdiction could...maybe.

You also handled it badly with your child when mom came to pick her up. If you were going to insist that mom couldn't have her until Sunday then your child shouldn't have been there to witness the argument....she should have been at a relative or friend's house. You did put your child in the middle. I realize that you tried to handle it the best that you saw fit at the time....but again, she shouldn't have been there to witness ANYTHING.

You aren't keeping adult matters between adults...that isn't good. In addition, I honestly don't think you should have fought the pickup at all...That is just my personal opinion based on the facts of the situation.