Customer Declined Repairs - Liability

[justalayman]

Right, I get that, I guess I am just asking is the employee for the shop the one who is named or the shop itself. Or can they both be named?

They will both, most likely be named. Especislly of your state licenses mechanics the mechanic will be named.

 

[SpawnedX]

So they are below discard specs. That is different than at discard specs.


Given the dimension they are obviously a vented rotor. For fun, here is something for you to think about.

The discard dimension is 1.039. The rotor measures 1.045 BUT it is obvious the caliper slides are seized and there is no wear on the outer brake pad and as such no wear of the rotor. The inner pad is metal to metal and it is obvious all the wear on the rotor to cause the measurement observed is is on the inner portion of the rotor

Now, realizing this and the fact the 1.039 discard is assuming there is relatively equal wear on the inner and outer portions of the rotor and as such it becomes obvious the inner portion of the rotor is well beyond what it would be if the rotor has worn evenly to the point of the discard dimension,

Does that mean the rotor is useable or not?

Based on my personal opinion, which I hope is considered and educated one considering my profession, I would say no, it should also be replaced. I personally do not want to take any risks on a safety component. I don't want to do it, the manager is telling me I have to do it or maybe I should look for another job. Based on this post, I think I am going to risk being fired and refuse.

 

[justalayman]

So how do you factually state he rotor is below acceptable manufacturers specs since it clearly is not by measurement.

Additionally toss in the fact that many rotors are manufactured with the two "plates" being different thicknesses (although not an intentional design but simply due to poor quality control)

 

[justalayman]

First, I would not quit over this.

While I agree with your general conclusions, a manufacturers discard spec does not necessarily make the rotor unsafe (in fact). That is where the manufacture says it is worn out. They have engineered "fudge" room since (and I'm presuming there is no "machine to" dimension and only a discard dimension) what could legally happen is if the measurement was 1.040 it is not at or below a discard spec and it not be an issue to install pads.

We all know there will be wear (including Chrysler) and there is a reasonable belief that exact thing will happen so they have to consider that and include enough thickness such that it is not going to create an unsafe condition.

 

[justalayman]

Btw; I'm previously ASE certified and MI licensed auto mechanic in areas that included braking systems. I have dealt with exactly what you are facing.

 

[davew128]

Going to toss in my two cents here. I've had my car in chain shops for certain types of work such as tires/oil etc. I'm always being told my rotors and pads are worn and need to be replaced because they're below manufacturer's spec. My personal mechanic whom I use for more traditional repair work (where I need to leave the car) agrees with me that the level of remaining pad and rotor is just fine. As layman tells you, below manufacturer spec is NOT unsafe.

 

[Zigner]

The hypothetical supposition in this thread is that the cause of the accident was rotor failure due to the undersized condition. Let's stick to our made up facts here, folks

 

[justalayman]

Ok so you don't like my attempt to throw a red herring into the kettle

The minimum thickness, while it does alter the rotors thermal capacity, the true concern is that beyond the minimum thickness as the pads wear it could allow the pad base to fall from position and cause a complete loss of braking ability.

As I said before, the manufacture does engineer in a fudge factor so it is not instantly a concern but it in no way makes the vehicle unsafe, at least until the pads wear out.

 

[SpawnedX]

I am not quitting over it. I am risking being terminated because I don't want to be responsible for anything that could happen because the customer declined rotors in lieu of just a pad slap. Being considered the expert, if something were to happen, and I am before a judge answering for it, it doesn't sound like that telling the customer these are below specification and need to be replaced, is enough to cover me in court if I just did a pad slap and something were to happen. That the liability and responsibility still lies on me, regardless of statement a customer my sign.

 

[justalayman]

quit/get terminated for insubordination

the only place it makes a difference is at the unemployment office. You don't have a job either way.


I don't totally disagree with you but I do not believe you have any reasonable concern of this becoming anything either.

but we live with ourselves more than any other person so you have to be comfortable with yourself and your decisions. Hope it works out for you in the end.

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

To further elaborate, the presence of new brake pads in and of itself creates more than a reasonable safety factor as the minimum spec is formulated with maximum wear on the brake pads. So basically, the guy will need to do his brakes again with about .007 of extra pad left next time to have the current braking force.

 

[FarmerJ]

Spawned Ive learned that even if you tell a so called superior that what they want you to do is bad work and you don't do what they want there are some supervisors who will treat that as insubordination and ive seen co workers fired for such, SO if a mechanic who is just a employee makes recommendations in writing to the customer and the customer declines the best thing that employee may want to consider is making a copy of the invoice for their own record that says what the recommendation was.

 

[Zigner]

To further elaborate, the presence of new brake pads in and of itself creates more than a reasonable safety factor as the minimum spec is formulated with maximum wear on the brake pads. So basically, the guy will need to do his brakes again with about .007 of extra pad left next time to have the current braking force.

No matter how much pad there is, with less metal in the rotor they become much more susceptible to warping and cracking. Warping may not be a huge safety concern, but cracking definitely is.

 

[justalayman]

It really isn't about them cracking. That is why i tossed in the hypothetical previously. One side of a (vented) rotor can be much thinner than the other. The concern is that as the friction material of the pad wears down, if the rotor is to thin the pad will be pushed out of the carrier.


While this doesn't address this situation I thought ild give a little story

Back when I did work as an auto mechanic, had s customer come into the garage. A Chrysler if I recall. Might have been silver. Not sure it was almost 40 years ago


Anyway, the driver, just happened to be a woman says; brakes started making noise the day before. But now she lost all brakes; pedal went to the floor. Leaking fluid right front wheel. My first thought was a popped brake hose

I lift it up and pull the wheels and am amazed at what I see. Now some won't understand what I'm talking about with a vented rotor but for those that do:

The rotor was worn so badly the part designed for the pads to push against was literally gone. The vent fins were visible where there was once wear surface. Inner pad simply missing. Caliper piston was rubbing against the fins on the rotor. It has to have been making one hell of s lot of noise, at least until the caliper piston had finally popped out of it's bore (that was the leak)

I looked at the woman and asked her; it just started making noise yesterday? She says: yep.

I just said; um, ok (thinking to myself; no way EVER)

it makes those stories where a wife has a black eye and claims she walked into a door when everybody is thinking husband is a jerk.

While I know it is the jerk husband, I have to admit, there have been some women where I took a moment to pause and consider the possibility.

 

[Zigner]

It really isn't about them cracking.

The OP's hypothetical concern in the hypothetical situation has to do with them cracking and causing an accident