dad says he's taking daughter to chiropractor

[LdiJ]

Chiropractic treatment is NOT invasive. You are showing your inability to understand common words. Seriously. Of course since you know what I know and were quite DEFINITIVE about it, then you know what I am thinking now.

I know quite well what invasive means...and I consider anything that messes with your skeletal structure, and can potentially effect your nerves as invasive.

I personally would never subject a minor to chiropractic treatment. If they want to get that kind of treatment once they are adults and can make their own decisions, fine. I personally think that the risks are otherwise, too great.

 

[Ohiogal]

I know quite well what invasive means...and I consider anything that messes with your skeletal structure, and can potentially effect your nerves as invasive.

I personally would never subject a minor to chiropractic treatment. If they want to get that kind of treatment once they are adults and can make their own decisions, fine. I personally think that the risks are otherwise, too great.

Your personal feelings matter not. Oh but I forgot -- you are omnipotent because you KNOW what I am thinking. Do not expect me to be bow.

 

[LdiJ]

Your personal feelings matter not. Oh but I forgot -- you are omnipotent because you KNOW what I am thinking. Do not expect me to be bow.

I don't expect you to bow. However I also don't expect you to tell a parent that they have no rights to object to chiropractic treatment in a joint legal custody situation.

 

[Ohiogal]

I don't expect you to bow. However I also don't expect you to tell a parent that they have no rights to object to chiropractic treatment in a joint legal custody situation.

I never said they couldn't object to chiropractic medicine. However dad has just as much right to object to the eye doctor -- if mom can make appoitnments for any old person she wants to see daughter so can dad in a joint legal custody situation. That is fact.

And I am not here to live up to your expectations. Of course however, you KNEW I was going to say that.

 

[californiamom3]

Out of curiousity... the "eye doctor" you're taking your daughter to... would that be an opthalmologist or an optometrist? Yes, there is a (huge) difference.

She is getting a routine eye exam by her pediatric optometrist.
I am fully aware of the differences between an optometrist and an ophthalmologist.
I see one of each on a regular basis as I suffer from severe Chalazia. I have had surgeries, steroid injections, etc.
A very good example. If our daughter were to be referred to an ophthalmologist, I would indeed run it by dad first for his approval.....even without a court order saying that I should.

 

[CJane]

Sorry Ldi, I disagree with you wholeheartedly. 'Round here - and I'm sure in MANY other places - a chiropractic appointment WOULD be seen as "routine and minor" and would NOT require the agreement of the parties.

Mom is MORE than welcome to take this to court if it means that much to her. I'd love to be a fly on the wall.

If the order is silent - and it is - then statute plays. And in CA, EITHER PARENT or the LEGAL GUARDIAN of the child can consent to medical treatment.

According to California Family Code section 3003, “'Joint legal custody' means that both parents shall share the right and the responsibility to make the decisions relating to the health, education, and welfare of a child.”

Sharing the right to make decisions DOES NOT mean that agreement is required. It means that each parent - seperately and jointly - has the right and responsibility to make decisions.

 

[californiamom3]

Mom is MORE than welcome to take this to court if it means that much to her. I'd love to be a fly on the wall.

I don't plan on taking this particular instance to court but I do plan on asking for both parents to agree on treatment before it happens. You don't need to be a fly, I'll let you know in December how it went.
I am in no way implying that this is a one way street. If I were the one wanting a particular kind of care for our daughter and dad was the one disagreeing I would expect the same thing. She wouldn't go!
I did not tell dad that he couldn't take her. That is not my right. I told dad, "I will not agree to that sort of treatment at this time." Apparently, he can take her if he wishes.
Now comes the moral issue, I guarantee dad doesn't know he can take her without me saying yes. Does one tell him so?
Months ago I would have said, "No." But today I will answer yes.
Just maybe I'll get lucky and it will open up a new communication between us.
Just maybe we can learn to parent together. Wish me luck!

 

[Hisbabygirl77]

I don't plan on taking this particular instance to court but I do plan on asking for both parents to agree on treatment before it happens. You don't need to be a fly, I'll let you know in December how it went.
I am in no way implying that this is a one way street. If I were the one wanting a particular kind of care for our daughter and dad was the one disagreeing I would expect the same thing. She wouldn't go!
I did not tell dad that he couldn't take her. That is not my right. I told dad, "I will not agree to that sort of treatment at this time." Apparently, he can take her if he wishes.
Now comes the moral issue, I guarantee dad doesn't know he can take her without me saying yes. Does one tell him so?
Months ago I would have said, "No." But today I will answer yes.
Just maybe I'll get lucky and it will open up a new communication between us.
Just maybe we can learn to parent together. Wish me luck!

Parenting together well would require honesty and you are wanting to "trick" him morally yes your choice could come back to bite you in your backside though. After all would you want him trying to trick you on grounds of "communicating"

 

[Ohiogal]

Parenting together well would require honesty and you are wanting to "trick" him morally yes your choice could come back to bite you in your backside though. After all would you want him trying to trick you on grounds of "communicating"

I think she is saying that she will tell dad that even though she does not agree that he has the right to take her anyway. Which should be applauded.

 

[californiamom3]

Parenting together well would require honesty and you are wanting to "trick" him morally yes your choice could come back to bite you in your backside though. After all would you want him trying to trick you on grounds of "communicating"

hmmm, interesting that you see that as trickery.
I wrote to him, "Through further investigation I have discovered that either of us is allowed to make decisions on treatment for the girls without the other parents consent. If you wish to take her to the chiropractor that is your right. I hope that in the future you and I can discuss such issues with mutual respect and understanding "
If that's some kind of trick.....I must be really good with my words. Or really bad. I guess it depends on how you look at it.

 

[Ohiogal]

hmmm, interesting that you see that as trickery.
I wrote to him, "Through further investigation I have discovered that either of us is allowed to make decisions on treatment for the girls without the other parents consent. If you wish to take her to the chiropractor that is your right. I hope that in the future you and I can discuss such issues with mutual respect and understanding "
If that's some kind of trick.....I must be really good with my words. Or really bad. I guess it depends on how you look at it.

If you request that you both have to agree however, watch it backfire. Because that is NOT showing mutual respect but rather showing that you want to force the issue so that if you don't agree, he can't do it.

 

[gr8rn]

This is definitely not a legal response, more of a medical one. After she sees the pediatric optometrist and the chiropractor, if the headaches continue, you and Dad should discuss possibly taking her to a neurologist.

and just an FYI, the chiropractor visit may require precertification in order to be paid by the insurance, and some plans do not pay for chiropractic care if the diagnosis is "headache"

 

[Proserpina]

I know quite well what invasive means...and I consider anything that messes with your skeletal structure, and can potentially effect your nerves as invasive.

I personally would never subject a minor to chiropractic treatment. If they want to get that kind of treatment once they are adults and can make their own decisions, fine. I personally think that the risks are otherwise, too great.

Your definition of invasive does not meet the standard definition of invasive within the medical community (which would be the most logical place from which any legal reference and/or definition would originate).

There's very little ambiguity surrounding the term and it's just not open to individual interpretation.

(though I actually agree with the second paragraph)

 

[californiamom3]

If you request that you both have to agree however, watch it backfire. Because that is NOT showing mutual respect but rather showing that you want to force the issue so that if you don't agree, he can't do it.

I understand what your saying here. But on the other hand when a married couple discusses medical treatment for their child wouldn't it be reasonable that both of them agree before treatment begins? When a kid goes in to the ER and suddenly the Dr. has to rush him in to operate, both parents are there, one says no, the other says yes, what happens? (married parents) Does the Dr. wait for the parents to negotiate? Does the Dr. go ahead with surgery because he feels it's necessary and takes the risk of being sued by the disagreeing parent? This is all hypothetical but I bet it's happened.
I understand that this sort of agreement that I'm proposing could bite either mom or dad in the butt. I feel that the alternative isn't any better. I don't think that I should be allowed to take my child to an acupuncturist without dads ok.
I wouldn't go change schools without talking with dad either right?
Isn't it the same thing?
What if it were a religious issue? I think the other parent should be respectful of that as well. There are so many directions this could go.
I'm anxiously awaiting dads response.

 

[Hisbabygirl77]

hmmm, interesting that you see that as trickery.
I wrote to him, "Through further investigation I have discovered that either of us is allowed to make decisions on treatment for the girls without the other parents consent. If you wish to take her to the chiropractor that is your right. I hope that in the future you and I can discuss such issues with mutual respect and understanding "
If that's some kind of trick.....I must be really good with my words. Or really bad. I guess it depends on how you look at it.

Sorry I misread what you wrote. I took it that you wanted to play to his lack of knowledge. I apoligize